DON't USE A GASCHECK!!!

[chickenstripe]

I heard a new one today......

Lead boolits are alright to shoot, but don't use a gascheck!!! They'll come off and get lodged in your barrel and you'll ruin your rifle!!!

Has anyone ever heard this one?

[rondog]

I have now! [smilie=f:

[ubetcha]

Who was the gun know-it-all that said that?

[williamwaco]

That has been floating around since the bullet molds were made by the Ideal company.

It is an old wives tale of the first water.

.

[DeanWinchester]

I say we perpetuate this myth! More gas checks for those of us who actually deserve to use them.

[dragon813gt]

I say we perpetuate this myth! More gas checks for those of us who actually deserve to use them.

Concentrate on perpetuating the myth that shooting cast bullets leads to leading. Less people to compete with for lead.

[bangerjim]

I have been waiting on my gas checks for months now. But with the govt shut down and the PO closed today there will be no money in the mail............again.

At least gas prices at the pump are getting more reasonable So I don't need as many checks to buy it.


WAAAAAAAAAAT?

WHHOOOOOOOOOO?

WHEEEEEEEEEEEERE?

........never mind!

banger HA........ha!

[Hardcast416taylor]

I seem to remember both reading and hearing this scare item back in the `60`s about using Lyman`s type of non crimp on gas checks. Of course these warnings were inflated and baseless hot air by people that didn`t cast or reload.Robert

[13Echo]

There is some possibility of truth. If your bullet base extends below the base of the cartridge case neck it is possible for a poorly crimped or seated check to come off in the case. In this instance it is possible for a check to become lodged in the bore.

Jerry Liles

[xacex]

Even if a gas check were to say stop or lodge in the bore do you really think it would cause a catastrophic barrel rupture? I have seen hunting rifles that had the muzzle shoved in the dirt split a barrel, but that is quite a bit of an obstruction. I would imagine a gas check would be pushed ahead of the pressure from the bullet unless it was lodges sideways. If it was sideways there would be no pressure except behind the bullet. In that case the pressure could go above SAMI specs for the cartridge, but they test those to like 20,000psi above published data for most cartridges.

[waksupi]

It's always good to check on dumb statements like that. If the info doesn't come from this board, it's probably not right. Someone here will make a statement, half dozen more will chime in why he isn't right, give two dozen other solutions to a problem, and finally shake down to the best way to do something. In your case, don't talk to anyone from other boards, or that don't shoot cast! [smilie=s:

[nhrifle]

If my gas checks have ever come off, I must have shot them out of the barrel and not noticed, and this after many thousands of checked rounds.

[Magana559]

:popcorn:

[Stephen Cohen]

Back in 78 we had a so called competition pistol builder turn up at our club, he went on about how dangerous it was to use gas checks. For some reason he got offended when I told him he had two male bits as no one could be that silly playing with one. The malfunctions his demoes had is another story.

[dtknowles]

I am checking to confirm but I believe that I read in Phil Sharpes 1937 Complete Guide to Handloading that it is dangerous to load ammo where the gas check is below the case neck because damaged rifles have been attributed to the gas check coming off and becoming a bore obstruction. I could not find by PDF of the book and am downloading it again.

84396

Tim

[Garyshome]

Just might have to use some jb weld. that ought to hold em' on.

[ukrifleman]

I use a Lee Cruise Missile`bullet as cast (.2695) for my 6.5 Carcano and fix the gas checks with a drop of Lok-Tite.
I seat the bullets within the case neck and have never had a problem with the checks coming loose.

ukrifleman

[Good Cheer]

If you put a gas check on the front it'll become a bore obstruction and ring your barrel.

[a.squibload]

A tight-fitting lead or jaxketed "plug" exits the barrel at ____fps,
but a thin copper or aluminiumum disc could seal the chamber?
Seems like it would be destroyed and ejected.
See if there's any reference in the article to someone having found
a gas check still in the case of a damaged rifle, or similar.

[dtknowles]

A tight-fitting lead or jaxketed "plug" exits the barrel at ____fps,
but a thin copper or aluminiumum disc could seal the chamber?
Seems like it would be destroyed and ejected.
See if there's any reference in the article to someone having found
a gas check still in the case of a damaged rifle, or similar.

I think it all depends on were the loose gas check ends up. All the dangerous scenarios seem very low probability but it is hard to ignore Phil Sharpe's commentary. If the gas check was to stick sideways in the throat and a round is chambered trapping the gas check between the bullet and the barrel that could be a problem or if the gas check was sideways farther down the barrel it could act like a bore obstruction.

Phil's contention that many guns were destroyed because of loose gas checks seems hard to believe. I put it in the same category as small charges of slow powders can cause a dangerous detonation. I find it hard to believe but I see no reason tempt fate.

I don't use small charges of slow powders and I don't seat bullets with gas checks below the neck.

Tim

[dragon813gt]

Uh oh, I just loaded fifty rounds of 300 Savage with the checks below the neck. There is no way to avoid this and have the lube groove fully covered. The checks are almost impossible to remove so I'm not real worried.

[fouronesix]

I don't know about the GC dropping into the case body after seating. I guard against that by not seating below the neck plus I make sure the GCs are on tight.

The warnings about GCs left in bores are well founded but not that common a problem. It seems to be much more common in revolvers shooting low pressure loads. It can also happen with some of the half jacket bullets. Some of the Speer half jacket pistol bullets were prone to it with low pressure loads in revolvers.

It's doubtful shooting a bullet over the top of a gas check stuck in the bore would cause a huge problem. One of two things would happen. The bullet and gas would hit the GC and push it out ahead of the bullet. The other, more problematic possibility would be a bullet running over the gas check and ironing it into the bore. Then that could get worse with each subsequent shot. Maybe not much issue with soft cast bullets but a few Jbullets might iron an impression into the wall of the bore.

I would just as soon avoid it.

[a.squibload]

I hadn't thought of "bullet hitting GC" scenario,
that could raise pressure I guess.

[Pb2au]

Good thing I braze mine onto my boolits........

[williamwaco]

I have a different outlook.
I am not really interested in who said, or who heard this "could" happen.

I want to hear from someone who has actually "Seen" it with his own eyes.

Anybody there?



.

[dragon813gt]

I have a different outlook.
I am not really interested in who said, or who heard this "could" happen.

I want to hear from someone who has actually "Seen" it with his own eyes.

Anybody there?



.

I will let you know next week :)

[williamwaco]

I will let you know next week :)

I sincerely hope you don't see it.

[drinks]

I had the Sharpe book, gave it away,it was entertaining in some places but,was not in my opinion, an actually carefully referenced work.
It appeared to be written to amuse and sell, the style was very much in the style of the old "Hardy Boys" books.
Cute and folksy.
I have loaded gcs below the neck, never had one come off in the barrel, have had them come off after the bullet left the barrel, the reason I have a .290" lexan shield in front of my chrono, which has collected several errant gcs.

[jcwit]

As with most anything, most everything is possible. Probable no, but possible, probably.

[HangFireW8]

I had the Sharpe book, gave it away,it was entertaining in some places but,was not in my opinion, an actually carefully referenced work.
It appeared to be written to amuse and sell, the style was very much in the style of the old "Hardy Boys" books.
Cute and folksy.
I have loaded gcs below the neck, never had one come off in the barrel, have had them come off after the bullet left the barrel, the reason I have a .290" lexan shield in front of my chrono, which has collected several errant gcs.

Lol Sharpe is the only gunwriter who owned his own ballistoc laboratory. If you had the 1937 edition theres more conclusions than research but with each successive edition he listed more sources including his own scientific testomg.

As for the writing style, that is a matter of taste but before you criticize you should read the typical hokum in gun rags of that time, not just "best of" reprints.

[blikseme300]

I have a different outlook.
I am not really interested in who said, or who heard this "could" happen.

I want to hear from someone who has actually "Seen" it with his own eyes.

Anybody there?



.

I'm waiting to see it for myself. There are many things that could possibly go wrong with any firearm but these are engineered to minimize these from happening.

In my 300blk AR-15 rifles I use ammunition reloaded with GC's below the neck and have fired about 10K of these without any catastrophic results. Did any GC's ever stay behind in the barrel or chamber? None that I know of but a few of the flyers I had might have been as result of a GC in the barrel.

I have mined a few berms and the GC's are typically still attached to the boolit bases and many still have most of their lube intact. Until there is empirical evidence I will continue to load and shoot my boolits with GC's seated below the necks.

[Whiterabbit]

I'm waiting to see it for myself. There are many things that could possibly go wrong with any firearm but these are engineered to minimize these from happening.

In my 300blk AR-15 rifles I use ammunition reloaded with GC's below the neck and have fired about 10K of these without any catastrophic results. Did any GC's ever stay behind in the barrel or chamber? None that I know of but a few of the flyers I had might have been as result of a GC in the barrel.

I have mined a few berms and the GC's are typically still attached to the boolit bases and many still have most of their lube intact. Until there is empirical evidence I will continue to load and shoot my boolits with GC's seated below the necks.

divide by 5-8 and this is my experience as well. no kabooms, but a few unexplained fliers. 7x57, and no reason for me to change my ways.

[Beerd]

I did ring a chronograph once with a gas check that came off the bullet base.
..

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I've had lube grooves stuck in a barrel, but never a GC ;)

[Whiterabbit]

I've had lube grooves stuck in a barrel, but never a GC ;)

doggone it I hate it when that happens.

[DeanWinchester]

I've had lube grooves stuck in a barrel, but never a GC ;)

Mine always fall away as they exit the muzzle. Never had one get stuck. Guess I been lucky.

[btroj]

Is waksupi peddling low grade loob grooves again?

[waksupi]

You know there are rules about degrading a vendors products here?!!

Don't look for it, I just made it up!

[leadman]

I had a gas check come of at least once. Found it in the display screen of my Chrony! LOL. I had a Lexan plate to go over it but I had forgotten the attaching parts that day. Amazing the damage that little 22 cal. GC did.
Now my display is on the bench.
Never had any problems with the GC below the neck of the case either.

[Prospector Howard]

Yes, it's definitely possible. There are alot of people here making there own gas checks that don't crimp on like Hornady checks. If they are loose and you seat the bullet with the gas check below the neck, it could fall off. That's what is talked about in the article. I'm not sure when crimp on gas checks came to be, but I'm guessing it was long after that article was written. It's obviously less of an issue if you use crimp on checks. If i was making my own that don't crimp on, I don't think I'd be seating it below the neck. A bore obstruction of any kind is a really bad idea.
There is some possibility of truth. If your bullet base extends below the base of the cartridge case neck it is possible for a poorly crimped or seated check to come off in the case. In this instance it is possible for a check to become lodged in the bore.

Jerry Liles

[WiederladerTV]

I shoot hundreds and thousands of GC boolitz through my rifles and never had this Problem. Ok my rifle barrel becomes heavier and heavier but it's because of my growing age and not because GC sticking in there. ;)

[.22-10-45]

I see alot of posts on various firearm sites stating something "never" or "always" will happen. One thing I have learned in 40 some years of fooling around with firearms is you can't be sure of anything! Back in the early 70's..I had just fired my first center-fire cast bullet..a Lyman 225438 with the Lyman brand slip-on checks. Can't remember load..probably out of Lyman book..fast shotgun powder most likely. Rifle was Rem. 700 in .222 Rem. I had just fired 1st. shot & saw dirt move at backstop...small hole very low on target backer. This was normal due to light start load I was using. Was about to load another when small voice in back of head (guardian angle?) said it might be a good idea to peek thru bore. I still remember arguing with myself at bench over this..hadn't I seen dirt fly? and bullet hole was in backer? Besides, gun was all set up & pulling bolt would require re-adjusting on bags. Finally I gave in & pulled bolt. Bore choked with smoke..blew thru to clear & looking quick..so I could get back to shooting..I was about to replace bolt..when I thought I saw something..what is that? And there it was..about 1" back from muzzle..it was sideways..I almost missed it. It came out easy enough on patch..but what if I had fired? would the compressed air in front of bullet pushed it out? Or would bullet nose hit it and push it thru?...Or..as my luck probably would have it, be pushed aside by bullet nose & run over..ironing it into bore? I have never seen or had this happen since..but that was the last time I ever used non-crimp checks.

[Pakprotector]

The loose GC is a bit much...seat one deep. Until it gets to the neck, there is nothing to convince it to move. by the time it gets to the neck, it is part of the seal and then under considerable pressure NOT to move. I can perhaps see one getting spit off after it leaves, and could perhaps account for a flier...but not leaving because it was living behind the neck.
cheers,
Douglas

[jaysouth]

This has the makings of a good rumor to start in local gun stores with underpaid clerks.

"Dun blowed th barral up, I seen it with my own eyes". "Them gaschecks is dangerous, dangerous I tell ye!"

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I would like to second what 22-10-45 said. It happened to me, not with a gas check but with a "J" bullet. I was shooting a Colt 1st edition in 44 spl when a round went off with a very light report . I saw the dirt fly at 25 yards so I thought, well at least the bullet left the barrel. As he described, a voice in my head said ,STOP AND LOOK. I had already cocked the pistol so I let the hammer down to half cock and removed the cylinder. I tried to look down the barrel but there was no light at the end of the tunnel. I had failed to put powder in the case and the primer had enough power to push the bullet down the barrel but the barrel grabbed the jacket and held it about have way down. There was an older man shooting on the pistol range that day and I showed it to him and he said it had happened to him several times over the years. My advice to anyone firing a gun, long or short, if something doesn't sound or look right, stop and check it out.

[waco]

It's always good to check on dumb statements like that. If the info doesn't come from this board, it's probably not right. Someone here will make a statement, half dozen more will chime in why he isn't right, give two dozen other solutions to a problem, and finally shake down to the best way to do something. In your case, don't talk to anyone from other boards, or that don't shoot cast! [smilie=s:
Waksupi nailed it.......

[GARD72977]

I hate to sound like a jerk but I am not concerned in the least about stuck GC. It is soft enough that I cant believe it would hut the barrel by another bullet especially lead bullet. If it is in the throat or bbl I have confidence that it will come out the end of the bbl.

Just my $.02

[Randy in Arizona]

Well I have a slightly different worry.
I had an integral suppressor built on a 45/70.
No way on earth do I want a gas check coming off the bullet while still inside the suppressor.
Fixing those toys is expensive, and the paperwork is a royal pain in the backside.

I got a good deal on an RCBS #45-500-FN .458 500 Gr Flat Nose Mold and had a machinist friend remove the gas check step.
Now for the fun of casting up a bunch and working up a 1075 fps load with a fast powder.
Nice big flat nose for maximum wallop on impact, and at .460 diameter it doesn't have to expand!


73

[Dan Cash]

Amazing: The things we know that just ain't so.

[merlin101]

Gas checks are creating Global warming and expanding the hole in the ozone layer! Remember that hole? It used to be over Australa well now it's centered over Wasgington DC and if we keep useing gas checks it's gonna fry.... HMMM ON SECOND THOUGHT!

[fouronesix]

It's also amazing how some people are so certain about things they don't really understand.

IIRC, it is well documented quite a few years ago that certain poorly constructed Jbullets over pretty hot loads occasionally left jackets or portions of jackets behind in the bore (may have even been some military connection?). Subsequent firings of Jbullets didn't necessarily cause catastrophic failure or rupture the barrel but did leave a nice imprint of the ironed-in remains of the jacket in the bore wall. I think I'll try to avoid that possibility with a gas check which would likely do the same thing if left in the bore- especially if any of the subsequent bullet (s) were jacketed.

I will guarantee it is possible for a GC'd bullet to shuck the GC in the bore with the GC remaining in the bore after the shot. I've done it twice that I know of and no way of knowing if it's happened more than that over the years. While probably very uncommon, I think there's a greater possibility with light loads in any firearm and even more so with light loads in a revolver. It would also certainly be a possibility if the GC were floating around in the powder charge when fired.

Chapter 7 of Hatcher's Notebook is a pretty good read. While it doesn't address GCs specifically, it has very good info on various bore obstructions, IMO.

[Dale53]

I just happened to see this thread. Before a person of the stature of Phil Sharpe is criticized you might want to read his credentials. He was a Captain in the Ordinance Dept of the U.S. Army. He had seen more problems with weapons of all types than most anyone reading this by a factor of ten.

Just because of his timely warning, I have NEVER intentionally seated a gas check bullet below the case mouth. It won't necessarily cause a problem but it certainly COULD. I prefer to not to temp fate. Almost every week in this immediate area I see someone with the same kind of attitude towards seat belts (it'll never happen to me so I am NOT going to wear a seat belt). Needless deaths from this cause are a dime a dozen. Just read the newspaper...

I raced cars on a dirt track when I was a youngster. I NEVER saw a single competitor that didn't use seat belts (aviation type, too) AND a crash helmet. I raced motorcycles for ten years and I NEVER rode a bike without my helmet (my fellow competitors felt the same). I have trashed more than one helmet but I still have my original head. You might want to think about that...

Back to the topic - I have never seen a barrel damaged from this source but I firmly believe it can happen. My brother loaned his 03-A3 to a relative and it came back with a bullet jacket ironed into the interior of the barrel. The barrel was ruined beyond further use. The relative did NOTHING wrong. It was a military round that somehow shed a jacket. How? I haven't a clue but I SAW the barrel results. Fortunately, I had a new barrel in the original wrapper for my brother.

I have personally been present when THREE 1911 .38 Special conversions had the barrels bulged by trying to drive hollow base bullets too fast (in an auto pistol barrel, no less). The skirts separated from the bullet, the bullet nose hit the target, leading the shooter to think everything was ok. The next shot bulged the barrel. This happened at my local gun club in just a few weeks. THREE barrels ruined. That doesn't sound likely, either, huh?

So, I strongly suggest a person take Phil Sharpe's warning to heart. Don't seat a gas check below the case neck. It your particular cartridge doesn't allow this due to a short neck, then maybe you need another caliber for gas check bullets. We cannot eliminate all risk from life but we can sure minimize it by our actions. Stay safe, people...

FWIW
Dale53

[338RemUltraMag]

I will seat checks below the neck but I prefer to make sure the check is resting on the powder or is resting on dacron. If these two conditions are always met when seating checks below the neck then there is no way for the check to become dislodged from the bullet.

[Harter66]

A plastic shotgun wad is pretty light as well. While I've never popped a bbl or had 1 ring it does happen . I doesn't take much to have that huge pressure jump either . I've jammed cases hunting in the rain and snow ,which out here isn't gushing down pours but more mist like and water drops are the only explaination for the spike.