Smoke Stick question

[Phat Phydeaux]

I'm thinking of buying a muzzel loader in 2014, Mostly for deer. What is the best bullit to use if purchased (ready made)? Does anyone cast their own, if so which mold do you use? As you can tell I'm totally green to Smoke Sticks and need to learn as much as I can before buy the gun and equipment to go with it.

[Irascible]

I bought an CVA Optima V2 50 cal muzzle loading pistol about 2 weeks ago. It is VERY accurate and I'm having a ball with it. Using Hornady green (44 Cal bullet) sabots and blackhorn 209 powder. At 50 yds, it took 2 shots to get in center and then a group of 5 Sierra JHC into 1 5/8" WITHOUT CLEANING. Cleaned it and then I tried bullets cast 50/50 out of an RCBS 250K mould. That group was about twice the size. Cleaned it again and then 5 from the RCBS 250 KT mould (50/50 again) those five went into 1" at 50Yds. This one is really a keeper :>)

[john hayslip]

If you want a sorta traditional I have the Lyman Deerstalker in flint and percussion. They are short, straight stocked compared to the old ones, and have a small recoil pads (I abhor the old curved buttplate). My cap lock is a relatively new one. I got it from Dixie this year and has the red and green rod sights that are easy to see.

Lyman also has one they call the Plainsman that is longer and has the curved buttstock. Only nicer thing in my mind is that they have the set triggers. My Deerstalker just has a single trigger but it is acceptable as it is.

Both are 50's and I'm currently using the Lee hollow base Minie with success lubing them with Borebutter. I shoot black in both.

[M-Tecs]

Best is hard to define. Do you want traditional of modern? I go both ways for hunting. If I go traditional I only use a period correct sidelock with real black powder. On the other hand if I am going inline use a smokeless powder rifles like the Savage 10 ML II. Some states do not allow the use of smokeless for muzzle loading season but the Savage 10 ML II is best value for an inline that can use black, subs or smokeless.

[jhalcott]

What is LEGAL where YOU HUNT? Some places say NO handguns, some say Flintlock only! Most guys use a .50 INLINE gun shooting Pyrodex ,sabots and pistol bullets. Many guys come thru my club for sight in day using a Power Belt bullet. IF you really want to shoot a CAST lead bullet, this can be done using the correct sabot. I have a .50 Knight rifle that I shoot Power Belts , sabots/.44 250 grain cast, or a 50 caliber Lee REAL bullet. The REAL is not SUPPOSED to work in the fast twist of the Knight. Three deer would argue about that IF they could. Your best bet would be to hang around the local rage and see what others are using. Pelletized powders are becoming the norm here. In lines are about all I see at the range and sabots are littering the ground.

[John Allen]

If you are going the more traditional route try a maxi ball. As stated above though you have to check what is legal.

[IROCZ]

I use a .54 T/C flintlock, bought used at a yard sale with a Lee 300 grain REAL conical and 100 grains of 2f Goex black. T/C's are good quality and can usually be picked up inexpensively used.

[Digital Dan]

.45 or larger bore, long rifle of Pennsylvania pattern persuasion for round balls. Be smart, get one with a flintlock. See Track of the Wolf for finished products or kits.

Thank me later.

[44man]

84374The very best is the Lyman for RB. Never seen one that was not accurate with clover leafs at 50. I like traditional, flinters and percussion, never got into inlines.
I can shoot RB's all day for pennies when an inline guy needs to buy stuff. I killed hundreds of deer with a flinter, .45 RB. Also .50's and .54's.
The group was 5 shots at 50 with a RB from my home made .54 Hawken. I hit 4 out of five steel chickens off hand at 200 meters with this rifle.
I can't wrap my head around the inlines, many come here to shoot them.

[Lonegun1894]

I prefer flint-locks and obviously the traditional guns. I have 3 Lyman GPRs, all flinters, and of those two are rifles, a .50 and a .54, and a smoothbore .54 with a GM barrel from back when they made a few. Also have a TC Hawken .45 flinter, and a CVA St. Louis hawken .50 caplock. All work great, but I prefer the .54s due to the weight/balance they provide (bigger hole in the same size outside diameter barrel makes for a lighter gun overall). I also use nothing but round balls in my rifled MLs. Conicals just use more lead and recoil more and can't do anything I can't do with a RB since I limit my shots to just over 100yds with the vast majority being 50yds or even less. The curved buttplates on mine are disliked by people who prefer a modern shooting position, when you put the buttplate against your shoulder like a shotgun, while the curved plates are meant to be placed on your upper arm just far enough away from your shoulder joint that the two points don't stab you. These guns work very well when used as they were intended. I use RBs cast in Lee and Lyman molds, and make my own powder as per the sticky here in the ML forum (THANK YOU all BTW!), and pillow ticking cloth I buy locally by the yard+. This all makes for some very cheap shooting that I can't match with even .22LR back before everyone went nuts and prices were still decent. I have fired a couple inlines, but they just never did anything for me, and with the cost of the sabots, and the primers (I can make my own flints also), I just figure if I am going to carry a modern rifle, I may as well carry one that loads from the rear instead of one of these inlines that I just see as a modern rifle that loads from the front. They are just another single-shot to me, and I have my H&R Handi-rifle for that kind of use.

Since legalities were brought up, also keep in mind that some places require the ignition to be exposed to the weather, and some say no optics, and as has been said, there's caliber restrictions in some, etc. just make sure you do some research before you buy to make sure that you get yourself a gun you can legally hunt with and not just a range toy, cause I would hate to see you get ripped off and frustrated when you could be out making meat instead.

[richhodg66]

The Cabela's Hawken (mine was made before Cabela's started importing it and is called an Investarms) has been a good rifle for me and I've killed several deer with it using the Lyman plains bullet, big, 410 grain flat nose, with 100 grains of Pyrodex.

[725]

Best bullet: Lots of bests out there. Modern stuff goes heavily toward plastic sabots & various projectiles. Many good choices. I prefer T/C's Shock Waves. T/C sells premade lead boolits, too. For a soft lead hunting boolit, store bought, I prefer the T/C Maxi-ball. (Not the Maxi-hunter, which many prefer). If you get into it, there are many T/C Maxi-ball moulds around and they cast very easy. For some reason I have always had better accuracy with the Maxi-ball, and they are just awesome on game. Good luck - Jump in, the water is fine!

[badge176]

IF you are gonna go looking for a bargin, second-hand muzzle loader, THEN protect the potential investment by purchasing a drop-in bore light to get an accurate view of what's really in there. I see plenty of muzzle loaders, at shows and shops, especially side locks that use #11 caps. Betting folks in MN at least get put off by the cold season allotted us front-stuffers (starts week end after Thanksgiving and runs till mid Dec). I like my TC renegade .50 if hunting from the ground, but prefer the NEF/ H&R Huntsman .50 from tree stand (much lighter/ shorter gun to hold up). I do have a .50 flinter (CVA Shenandoa) but shoot that mostly for fun, and I just got a Cabela's/ InvestArms Hawken in .58 that I'm scrambling to bring up to speed for MN Deer season. I picked up a partially completed Zoli .58 Zouave that just needed the patchbox and butt plate (unfired bore! for like $175).

Most a deer has walked/ run after taking a 385g Minnie .50 cal through the chest was like 50 yrads and the blood trail was almost like Braille! Most have simply staggered where they stood and flopped over with 85g of Pyrodex RS pushing that pill, and most of my wood shots from tree stands have been under 25 yards (many at less than 25 feet?)

I like .50, but am real excited about the .58's potential in patched RB.

The BEST gun will be one that is LEGAL in your hunting area, within your budget (don't forget about the "kit" that you'll need to load and clean the beast- powder, projectiles, caps, powder measure, short starter, over powder wads, bore/ bullet lube, patch worm, bullet puller, cleaning jag, bore light, etc), equipped with best sights allowed by law and then by your intended ethic (primitive, peep, scoped, fiber optic, ...), shooting what ever load (projectile and charge weight) that carries adequate energy to reasonable ranges for where you hunt, and with the most reliable ignition system (again allowed by design, laws, and ethic).

I like side locks with musket caps, firing big bore RB or Modern Minnies, at modest velocity for best accuracy at 50-100 yards, required to use open sights (so peep in back and fiber optic in front), I always replace the ramrod with a synthetic one that will not break, and regularly wrap my lock area with loose Saran Wrap to keep the cap and nipple dry until the moment of truth. I prefer double set triggers, but have polished up locks and triggers on single triggers for myself and others and I slip a rolled over cut-off finger from a rubber glove as a muzzle cover to keep the boor dry.

[starmac]

I have no idea who would be qualified to answer this question. The first thing you need to do is find out for sure what is even legal in your state, unless your are talking about a traditional sidelock of some sort. Then know what you will primarily hunt with it.

[bassnbuck]

I have no idea who would be qualified to answer this question. The first thing you need to do is find out for sure what is even legal in your state, unless your are talking about a traditional sidelock of some sort. Then know what you will primarily hunt with it.

Your state hunting laws should tell if there are caliber or scope restrictions, etc. When I started muzzle loader hunting here in northern Mn. we had -25 to -30 temps during ml season. I took a lesson from the guys who had been there,done that and used FFFG with my side lock. It works so I dont fix it. Have taken deer with .50 cal buffalo bullets, maxi balls & sabots. All work well. I have not had the chance to hunt bigger game.

[quilbilly]

In started black powder hunting for deer 30 years ago with patched round ball with great success. For some unknown reason I switched to sabots and pistol boolits and conicals (jacketed were illegal here for ML hunters) to increase my range. I switched back to PRB a couple years later not liking the results on struck deer. Now the only time I use sabots or conicals is for desert mule deer and elk. If your shots on deer are always under 125 yards, I recommend and PRB from .45 on up over conicals or sabots. I know this is heresy to some but this just comes from my observations in the field.

[waksupi]

In started black powder hunting for deer 30 years ago with patched round ball with great success. For some unknown reason I switched to sabots and pistol boolits and conicals (jacketed were illegal here for ML hunters) to increase my range. I switched back to PRB a couple years later not liking the results on struck deer. Now the only time I use sabots or conicals is for desert mule deer and elk. If your shots on deer are always under 125 yards, I recommend and PRB from .45 on up over conicals or sabots. I know this is heresy to some but this just comes from my observations in the field.

Some people just have to slay their own dragons, until they figure out the round ball is the best for muzzle loaders.

[gideons301]

I use a side-lock, 75 grains of ff Black, and a Lee Target Mini bullet in pure lead, touched off with a musket cap. 3 Deer and one Elk, none of whom took more than 3 steps after being hit with said bullet. I am sure that bullet placement had a lot to do with performance, but that big flat front on the bullet doesn't hurt.
Do pay attention to what is legal for ML in your area.