Shooting the 3 band Snider

[Buckshot]

.............I'd reported shooting my Snider carbine (cut down rifle) with .600" round balls and how much fun it was. I decided to dust off the 3 band and try'er out with the RB's too. The barrel on this ole beast is in pretty good shape, with shine all up and down the bore and sharp lands. It does have a couple grayish rough patches here and there but no apparant really bad places.

This time I also decided to try some Pyrodreck RS for a change, instead of REAL BP. I administered 80.0 grs (equivilant volumn) of the stuff into the case through a 24" drop tube. Then put 25 of the charged cases in a 12 guage loading block and held it against the centerbolt of my vibratory tumbler. Didn't seem to lower the powder level very much (if at all) so the drop tube must have done it's thing. I would be loading 35 cases.

The brass was the Mag-Tech 24ga brass shotshells, shortened appropriately and converted from Berdan to 209 shotshell primers. After having dumped and vibrated down the powder, a .045" wad cut from a (Famous Dave's BBQ) beer (Bud lite) coaster was thumbed in and then compressed about 1/8". Melted up some Wonder Lube in the nuclear box and used a plastic Lee dipper to fill half the remaining empty volumn of the case.

After setting up, a .600" pure lead RB was put in (sprue nib up) and then seated and mildly crimped in place. CArrying 35 of these rounds in a plastic carrier will make you list a bit. Can't wait to have a full 50 of'em to hump around, sheesh!

At the range I set a target up at the 50 meter line and at the range hot signal I let fly :-). I got a surprisingly stout thump of recoil and a neat cloud of nauseatingly acrid Pyrodex smoke. BP smoke is bad enough but Pyrodex smoke is a killer! My first 2 shots were a few inches apart, but the next 3 had minds of their own and I'd guess the group at maybe 8" or so. COuld be any number of things.

Having satisfied myself with the target I (and a couple range buddies) expended the balance shooting at the 200 meter gong. The plate is maybe 12x14" or something similar. I actually hit it once, and did have several close misses by scant inches. Those .600" RB's got out there pretty quick, and the one hit was a good solid sounding "GLANG"!

At this point it isn't a tack driver, and maybe never will be. But on the other hand there is just something way fun about handleing those big fat cartridges into the breech and earing that hammer back and letting fly. At this point I have to say the carbine is the accuracy champ over the much longer 3 band.

...............Buckshot

[357tex]

does sound like fun:-D

[montana_charlie]

Do you think the third shot (and subsequent ones) flew wide due to lead in the bore?
What about seating the ball on the wad, and filling the mouth of the case with Wonder lube...like a C&B revolver?
CM

[JeffinNZ]

The rifling might be a shade shallow for those follow up shots after a bit of coal is left in the barrel.

[Buckshot]

..............Jeff & Mont Chas, I cleaned it when I got home and there was no leading. The pyrodex powder had some buildup in the bore. I can't really quantify it but it was less then real BP would have produced, I'm sure.

Accuracy with these militaries can be a bit 'casual' sometimes as the chambers were cut with the foil wrapped boxer cases in mind. The chambers can be 'odd'.

What was fun also was there were several kibitzers watching. Got asked if it was a civil war gun, and one guy was knowingly telling his pal it was a Trapdoor. I might try swaging up some .596" light weight Minie' boolits to see what happens.

..............Buckshot

[shooter575]

Buckshot,Fore some experments in accuracy maybe trying some reduced loads with COW or grits filler.Say 45-50 gr powder along with that bumped up minne.My guess is the groups could be reduced quite a bit.And no one except your shoulder would know.
Wish I could of found them brass shotgun shells back when I had a nice 2 band example some 20 years ago.
I did make a couple rounds out of brass tubing and turned bases to play with.That is real pain of a way to go.

[JeffinNZ]

[QUOTE=Buckshot;241643 militaries can be a bit 'casual' [/QUOTE]

That's the best way I have ever seen military chambers described. :drinks::-D

As long as the old Sniders shot "minute of native tribesman" the colonials were pretty happy.

Speaking of those foil cases one of the guys in my BP club used to have a gun business in the far north of NZ. He knew an old guy who had a .577/450 and a case of foil ammo he used for tipping over the odd cattle beast. This was until quite recently and Pete did his best to buy the ammo for collectable reasons but the old guy was happy with his old rifle cos' it worked.

[montana_charlie]

..............Jeff & Mont Chas, I cleaned it when I got home and there was no leading.
I guess (if it was me) I'd have to try again, without changes, to see if the first two (or three) hold together...and then everything scatters. If so, I might try a milder load.
CM

[Mayor]

Charlie

Try reducing your charge to 60 grains of real black powder. The Sniders seem to like that charge weight the best with a round ball. If you have access to any felt shotgun wads you should trim them and use them for wadding.

I have some good recipes and would be glad to help!

[Red River Rick]

I have to agree with Buckshot, shooting the .577 Snider round is lots of fun, and surprisingly, they can be very accurate with the right load/bullet combo. I’ve never tried firing RB’s thru it.

I’ve been shooting a 2 band MK II for a number of years now. And every time I take it out shooting, it sure does draw a lot of attention. Curiosity usually starts out with a few questions, next thing you know, they want to shoot it, a bit of nostalgia I guess.

When I first started shooting the Snider, unlike nowadays, brass was not readily available and what was available was not cheap and Magtech brass never existed. I did manage to get some turned brass cases that I purchased from Ellwood Epps, years ago, but they never seemed to last very long. Even after annealing a number of times, the necks still cracked, finally rendering the cases useless.

So I made my own cases using thin wall drawn tubing affixed to a machined brass base via low temp silver solder. The tubing used is 21/32 with a 0.015” wall thickness, made by K&S Engineering. I machined the bases using half hard yellow brass and machining the primer pocket to accept 209 primers for better ignition. After soldering, the case are simply run into the sizing die and loaded as usual. With BP loads, these cases are more than strong enough to withstand the pressures. I would not attempt to use “ANY” amount of smokeless in these cases for whatever reason.

I tried quite a number of various cast bullets, but finally settled on using swaged bullets, they seemed to be the most accurate. I came across an article a number of years ago with regards to the Snider Enfield, and it mentioned that the original round was a 0.575” diameter, 465 gr “Swaged” Minnie bullet. The base was filled with a 15 gr baked clay plug. The bullet was seated on top of 70 grs FG. The article also mentioned that the bullet had a closed nose cavity to reposition the center of gravity and render the bullet equally useable in 1 in 78” and 1 in 48” twist bores.

I made a swaging die, 0.580 diameter, along with the appropriate base and nose punches to swage my own bullets in my Corbin Hydro press. The nose style is a HP design and the base being of a Minnie style. I also added a couple of cannelure grooves using a Corbin power cannelure machine which increased the bullet dia. to approx 0.585”.

Bullets were lubed and the bases filled with SPG, and loaded on top of 70 grs. of Goex FFG. The bullets are crimped in place. They shoot very well.

I’ve added a few pics of the tubed cases before assembly, along with a few finished cases. The 465 gr. recovered bullets shown, were dug out of wet phone books and retained 93% – 95% of their original weight. Shots were fired from approx. 30 yards and the bullet penetration was approx. 10” – 12”. Three inch groups, at 100 yards is common, considering the age of the firearm and the poor front sight.

Perhaps the gentleman who referred Buckshot's carbine as a Trapdoor wasn't wrong after all. Canada received 30,000 Sniders in 1867, not to mention how many more after that. So it's not uncommon to come upon these great relics up here.

Just thought I’d share this info.


RRR

[jhrosier]

RRR,
I had a Snider carbine, back in the '70s, and shot it a bit. I took a Kynoch case and converted it to boxer primers. To do this I drilled the primer pocket out and then soldered in a new one made from the head of a .22 Hornet case. That single case lasted many hundreds of shots. I used the 315 grain Lyman minie to keep recoil manageable.
It was a hoot to shoot and I still regret selling it.
It would keep enough of its' shots on paper at 100 yards to be interesting.

One day at the range, a wise guy started making rude comments about the Snider that just rubbbed me the wrong way. I asked him if he had ever shot one and if he wanted to give it a try, to which he finally agreed. Well, a friend had just given me a bunch of 570 grain minies so I seated one on a case darn near full of powder. BTW, I was shooting from a bench rest...:twisted:
I was only a little surprised that the shot took him clean off the bench and left him in the dirt with the gun pointing straight up.[smilie=1:
He never did have much to say to me after that day. I still laugh every time I think about it.

I had read an article in a gun magazine, back around that time, about a fellow who went to Africa and shot several head of big game with a Snider when his magnum elephant rifle broke an extractor. That gave me an appreciation for the old big bore guns.

Jack

[Red River Rick]

" a friend had just given me a bunch of 570 grain minies so I seated one on a case darn near full of powder. BTW, I was shooting from a bench rest...:twisted:
I was only a little surprised that the shot took him clean off the bench and left him in the dirt with the gun pointing straight up.[smilie=1:
He never did have much to say to me after that day. I still laugh every time I think about it."

Jack

Jack:

I like the way you introduce new prospects to the wonderful sport of "BPC" shooting. Ah hell, he had it coming.

The British proof load was 105 grs. of FFg pushing a 750 gr slug, you should have offered him that.

Years ago, while living in a northern mining town, a freind on mine shot a young bull moose with his 2 band. He and another buddy managed to call the young bull (young & stupid) in to within 75 yards, standing broadside. The bullet hit him low in the hump and floored him instantly. A fist size exit wound revealed that the bullet shattered the spine.

I don't think I'd take the chance of hunting any serious dangerous game, something with a bit more realiability would be in order. However, for small and medium sized game (deer) it would be well suited and lots of fun.

RRR

[Buckshot]

.............RRR, very nice photo's. Your machine work looks clean and well done. I just LOVE tunring brass :-). I too made a swage die for my RCE Walnut Hill press. The lightest slug I've tried was a 470gr. The swage die expands them to .596". All I had at the time was the 3 band, but I have a carbine now. Actually it's a rifle someone cut down and it seems to be more accurate then the 3 band.

I understand the Sniders liked lots of lube so making a cannelure tool might not be a bad idea. It IS great fun, and the carbine backs off the ball smartly.

.................Buckshot