good rifle cals for cast. ease, and cost a plus

[s1120]

OK here is the deal... at this time I don't hunt. But in the future I might, or if not I'm looking for getting a rifle to mess around with, load for, and get experience with in case I need to. I like old wood and steel...cost is a issue, so no wiz bang AR clone, and no top of the big money hunting rifle. I'm looking for a round that's fairly easy to load, tools, and components easy to find, and cast boolet friendly. Right off the rip I'm thinking 30-06, or 30-30 but I'm mostly a pistol guy, so don't have much experience with long guns. Thoughts, ideas, advice??

[btroj]

30-30 or 45-70, both just scream to be shot with cast. Both will give good accuracy with the same velocities you can get with jacketed.
Good selection of moulds for both, multiple powders work in both, easy to load, rifles are abundant. Data is there for multiple velocity windows, many, many decades of use means that about all that needs to be known is known.

[Outpost75]

If already a pistol shooter, consider a rifle or carbine in a handgun caliber you already use, such as .357 Magnum.

If you were to buy one rifle for casual shooting which would also make a serious hunting rifle, you cannot go wrong with a good .30-'06 boltgun. I see that you are in upstate NY. You might check around and check the used racks at gun shops to see which calibers are the most popular among deer hunters. I'll bet that both .30-'06 and .30-30 are in the top five popular calibers.

[s1120]

30-06 is king in the area. Seems everyone uses it. I'll have to look into 45-70. Never seen one before.

I've tossed around getting a 357 lever. How effective is a rifle chambers in that for hunting?

[Outpost75]

....I've tossed around getting a 357 lever. How effective is a rifle chambers in that for hunting?

The .357 is a great varmint caliber and is OK for smaller deer at short range, not to exceed about 50 yards, however, in upper NY state you get big bucks, and most would consider the .357 marginal, even in a rifle. The .45-70 is a great big game gun, but also gobbles up powder and lead at a great rate.

If you already have either a .45 Colt or .44 Magnum revolver, consider a lever rifle in one of those calibers, as with proper flat-nosed 260-grain+ bullets at rifle velocities over 1300 fps you have a proven big game load with cast which you can also use in your sturdy handgun. My preference leans towards the .44 Magnum because there is a better variety of good factory hunting ammo in that caliber, and brass and bullets are more plentiful in most places. Hunting ammo for .45 Colt is mostly a handloading proposition because factory loads are kept down in deference to the many older guns out there. But if you have a New Model Ruger .45 and a Marlin lever rifle of that caliber, with proper handloads you give up little to either the .44 Magnum or .45-70.

[Larry Gibson]

Winchester M94, rifle or carbine, in 30-30. The AE model can readily be scoped. Or an older M70, the post '64 is fine with push feed, in .308W. Both have 12" twists and are very cast bullet friendly. As mentioned the '06 isn't a bad coice either.

Larry Gibson

[runfiverun]

the 30-30 would be dang hard to beat.
if you need more then the 358 win.
more than that the 45-70.
all fling cast at/near jaxketed velocity's with a little work.
and can go the other direction easy nuff too.

[DHurtig]

You can't go wrong with a straight wall case like 357 mag,44 mag, 45 colt, 45-70. All are easy to load and components are readily available. Cases seem to last forever. They can all be loaded up or down to suit your needs. 375 Winchester and 444 Marlin are not as readily available but would work well also. In a bottle neck case my favorite is the venerable 30-30. It has been around for well over a hundred years and has proven itself worthy. There is a wealth of information available.

I have always been a fan of single shot rifles for their simplicity, lighter weight and normally shorter length. I have 2 Contender frames with barrels in 22 K hornet, 17 Remington, 30-30, and 44 mag. I have owned barrels in at least a dozen other standard and wild cat calibers. Extra barrels are readily available and can be changed in about a minute. I am also a fan of the NEF / H & R platform. They are inexpensive, and used guns can be found for $200 or less. Barrels can also be changed with usually only minor fitting. Check out Gray Beards forums for a wealth of information on these guns. Pictured below are my 2.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e69/c_latrans/NEFsurvivor.jpg (http://s37.photobucket.com/user/c_latrans/media/NEFsurvivor.jpg.html)

On top is my Survivor model in 357 with a 6X scope. This is the most used gun I own and we never go to the range with out it. I cast and shoot wadcutters, RNFP's SWC's of various weights 158 grain HP's and RN bullets up to 200 grains. Mild to wild it's a blast to shoot and cheaper than a 22 anymore. On the bottom is my UltraHunter model in 45-70 which now wears a 2-7 shotgun scope. I can cast and load everything from 200 grain RN plinkers on up and even round ball and shot loads. You can't get any more versatile than that. Dale

[Love Life]

I'd get an 8mm Mauser, but them aren't really cheap anymore either.

[Piedmont]

Any of the common .30s (.30-30, .308, or .30-06) would be a good way to go. You might luck across a .35 Rem or .358 Winchester and both of those are great cast rounds. You are getting into some recoil with a .45-70, but in a heavier rifle they are lots of fun--like hand held artillery.

[oldpapps]

Looking at your previous posts, I see you are a .38/long 38 wheel gun man. And some casting equipment for same.

To hold costs down, I would opt for a lever action is .38/.357. Thus combining what you have with a start into long gun lead shooting.

Look at all options in weapons before buying or looking/hands on type. The buyer is better off to know what he/she wants and doesn't want up front.

This doesn't exclude becoming well versed in other weapons systems as well. And this is better in the long run as well. May very well want to expand into other realms.

Lead likes slow velocities (compared to pushing 3500 FPS) and slower velocities do very well with big/bigger bullets that go hand in hand with more weight. With more understanding and experience velocities on par with jacketed bullets are very reachable. In the 1890s, those 'new' small bore rifles started becoming 'the thing' to have. Those were 30 and 32 caliber bore weapons. Today .224 bore rifles are the 'it' to many. Yes they can shoot lead well but I prefer more lead.

Enjoy,

OSOK

[jmort]

I like the .308. Smaller case is easier to fill, but it can still reach out if necessary. A single shot or bolt action would be nice.

[quilbilly]

30/30 is, of course, ideal for cast boolits but I see sales on 30/06 bolts with scopes all the time in the newspaper at what I think are reasonable price for new rifles. The venerable 30/06 shoots just fine with cast.

[Mk42gunner]

You don't hunt at the present time, just wanting to get some experience with rifles right? At least that is the way I read it.

I see you as mainly punching holes in paper, with the occasional tin can that needs ventilated.

What kind of accuracy are you looking for? If you want to shoot itty bitty groups, a bolt action will likely be easiest; which means a good used .308 or .30-06. If you will be satisfied with slightly larger groups as you learn, there is absolutely nothing wrong with either a Marlin or Winchester lever action in .30-30.

The advantage of the .30 caliber rounds is that there are a lot of molds available from the .310" round ball through the .32 pistol molds on up to ~220 grains.

Robert

[jonp]

30-30
Depending on where you live the racks are full of used ones at a good price. One shop I was just in up in Northern NH had a dozen used ones. Loaded right you can take moose with them.

A 45 Colt lever is hard to beat also

[Dale in Louisiana]

I'd get an 8mm Mauser, but them aren't really cheap anymore either.

Widener's has the M-48 Yugo Mauser listed for $269. Not bad for a real wood and steel rifle, even when you add shipping and possibly a fee for your dealer to receive it for you if you don't have your C&R FFL.

Or you can cut that number in half and get a Mosin Nagant. Yeah, it's ugly as a home-made booger, but they're fun to shoot.

dale in Louisiana

[Jupiter7]

If you're looking for a all around, defense/ plinking/hunting rifle that will serve you and yours for many years, look no further than the CMP and a m1 Garand. All a man really needs. If cheap and easy are th desired solution, a used savage 340 in 30-30 fits the bill. If you want more capacity and brand new, Springfield m1a. Personally, an AR in 300blk is a cast boolit dream and is a 200yd capable rifle in a 7lb, 30rd capacity package. I have the savage, garand and AR. The savage shot best with least work and was cheapest.

[PS Paul]

Just load an easy and non-controversial caliber/rifle combo like the 6.5x55 in a '96. he he......
Nah, I would second the straight-walled pistol caliber myself.

[williamwaco]

1) .30-30
2) .38-55
3) .32-20 ( less lead, less powder )
4) .32 Winchester ( Economical. There are thousands of them floating around the gun shows - Winchester M-94)
5) Any other .30 caliber because you likely already have it.

General rule for newbies: The larger the bullet, the easier it is to cast.

[wistlepig1]

30/30 or 30/06, will do most anything you want! my2cents

[DeanWinchester]

I started deep into 30/30 because everyone here says (an its very true) how friendly to cast boolits it is. The long neck and small case make it awesome for cast loads.

Having said that, I have yet to cast for anything that will beat my .308. Others can, I cannot. The .308 is versatile, common and east of the Mississippi will do anything and everything. I might want a little more were I poking elk, moose and bear in the north west....but not much more. My only real trouble has been finding boolit designs that fit the gun, case and twist rate and still make ME happy. I've found a few and they work.

Now, I will say this, .35 Remington is fast creeping into my 308 territory. The only thing that keeps it from surpassing it is my refusing to drill and tap my '53 Marlin 336. Seeing this cartridges potential makes me damn tempted to either buy another 336 already scoped or build me a bolt action in the same caliber. I have cast for several rifles over the years and never had better luck out of the gate than my 35 Remington. .....and a 200g RNFPGC over a medium dose of AA2015 is a sledgehammer.

[youngda9]

I love me some 358 Winchester. Have 2 of them now and they are a hoot. Not the most cost effective though.

35 Remington in a lever gun would be a close second (never had one) since it is also versatile and you can get most anything with it. 308 is also an excellent candidate. I love shooting 44mag out of my marlin 1894, perfect for deer just out past 100yds.

[leadman]

If you can find a good lever gun like the Marlin at a good price in 30-30 or 35 Rem that would be good. The 35 can use the 38/357 pistol boolits for cheap shooting.
My other choice would be a 30-06 bolt gun. There are lots of old military 1903s and 1903a3s around that were sporterized long ago that are not too expensive and if the barrel is bright with strong rifling shoot as good and sometimes better than the new bolt guns. I have a 1903a3 sporter with a dark bore but it will shoot the Lee 200gr boolit into less than an inch at 100 yards. The choice of molds is from the 93gr pistol boolits up to over 200grs. The Lee molds work very well in the 30 calibers. Components are available just about everywhere and reloading tools in new and used are also widely available. Powder from the fast pistol/shotgun to the slowest burners can be fed an '06.

[oldpapps]

s1120,

In the above 22 responses you have some excellent views and advice.

I have picked at each one of them and can't find a single one that I can find fault with.

The ball is in your court. Do with it as you may, but have a good time in the process.

Enjoy,

OSOK

[olereb]

I was in Upstate NY this past weekend and was talking to some guys/friends about hunting there and I would say 30-30,45-70 or 44mag,my cousin uses both the 30-30 and 45-70 upstate and carries a 44mag revolver as backup.

[jhalcott]

H&R and a couple others make good single shot rifles. Some can be had with extra barrels. The 45-70 and 30-30 calibers are excellent choices for cast bullet shooting. These single shot guns are great for any one learning to hunt with a rifle. I MIGHT consider a smaller caliber to a beginner, but you have been shooting handguns. A lever gun must have the ammo adjusted to a critical length or feeding problems occur. This is a NONissue with a break open single shot. Pointed bullets are to be avoided in a tube fed lever gun. NOT a problem in the break open. Besides, HOW MANY shots do you get at one deer?

[Adk Mike]

I have a push feed Sears branded Winchester in 30 06. The thing shoots great.I have a Lyman target sight on it. Lots of cheap brass. I get Unique in big containers. Pretty hard to beat. I figure about 9 cents a round. I'm going to load some heavy bullets and 4227 and hunt deer with it in a couple weeks.

[country gent]

I would also recomend 45-70 either a lever gun or single shot. (Rolling blocks and Sharps are truly steel and wood traditional rifles). 38-55 also a very tradition style rifle and very effective ( although a diffrent dia from 38 pistols). 32 win special would be interesting though brass would be harder to find. 30-30 very traditional deer rifle and hard to beat. Hit the gu shows in your area and the gun shops handle some diffrent rifles see what you like looks wise and what feels right in your hands. Read up search the internet for Ideas. MAybe even a project gun an old used bolt action in a 30 cal that you can fix up tinker with in the off season? If your planning on hunting with this rifle also check game laws where your planning on hunting as to caliber restrictions, magazine capacity, and things of this sort. I have 2 5 round garand clips made up years ago since Michigan had a 5 round mag limit deer hunting. All things to consider. Do your homework enjoy the time spent and make an informed decission.

[KYCaster]

Hmmmmm..........took 21 posts to come up with 35 Remington.........it's #1 on my list.

Jerry

[Mk42gunner]

Jerry,

I thought about it, but that whole easily available brass thing kept me from mentioning it.

Robert

[wch]

38-55 does it all: target, hunting, steel, smokeless, black, good selection of bullet weights, gas checks or not.

[s1120]

Lots of great info here guys!! Thank you all very much. I have much more info to go on now when I go looking on the used racks. This is not a "today" buy.. but I do like to jump when the wallet, and the right gun match up at the same time!!

[Browningshooter]

I'm gonna with the 30/30 here as well. Moderate velocity and pressure to deal with so it's not as finicky about alloy. Plus brass is abundant most places and you can load " gallery" light loads to your hearts content. With rimmed brass you don't have to worry about your shoulder and head spacing.... Those light loads are cheap son! Great way to get the youngsters started on a deer rifle!

[smithgar3840]

My vote is for the 308. I've loaded it with light 110 grain boolits and duplicated the 32.20. I run a 309411 in it most of the time loaded to 2200 fps. That load has killed hogs to deer and a few coyotes over a call. I very seldom shoot j words out of it but when I do I have a mill dot reticle and move my point of aim down 2 mills from the j word sight in and I'm right on the money for the cast load. Life is good. I really get tickled when I go to the range cuz I can shoot all afternoon pretty cheap.

[DonMountain]

I love me some 358 Winchester. Have 2 of them now and they are a hoot. Not the most cost effective though.

35 Remington in a lever gun would be a close second (never had one) since it is also versatile and you can get most anything with it. 308 is also an excellent candidate. I love shooting 44mag out of my marlin 1894, perfect for deer just out past 100yds.

So who makes one of these 358 rifles everyone talks about having and where can I get one? Awhile back I looked for manufacturers of 358 rifles and couldn't find one. Or are they of a long gone caliber of a bygone era?

[zomby woof]

30 Carbine

[mckenziedrums]

I kicked around this exact same thing just a couple months ago... Part of my thing was I wanted to have a caliber that I had in both a handgun and a rifle. I'd thought about the 38/357 but just didn't like the rifle ballistics as much as some of the other calibers. After MUCH debate (and fondling many a lever action) I ended up going with the 45 colt. There's not much it couldn't take down if you are hunting but it's not the overkill that the 45/70 is. There are so many different molds that drop the 45 boolit that you might be overwhelmed with picking one of them next if you go that route! I was pleasantly surprised with the 6 cavity Lee I purchased from another member here....

Oh and I realize that the 45c isn't exactly a "rifle" caliber but it is so versatile that I'm extremely happy I went that route. Of course I need to buy a 45/70 now just because... and a 30-30.... but I found that I can shoot the 45 with light Unique loads for plinking or switch over to 2400 or H110 if I need to drop the hammer.

Here's what I ended up buying after my search:
http://mckenziedrums.com/45ColtHenry.jpg

[s1120]

I kicked around this exact same thing just a couple months ago... Part of my thing was I wanted to have a caliber that I had in both a handgun and a rifle. I'd thought about the 38/357 but just didn't like the rifle ballistics as much as some of the other calibers. After MUCH debate (and fondling many a lever action) I ended up going with the 45 colt. There's not much it couldn't take down if you are hunting but it's not the overkill that the 45/70 is. There are so many different molds that drop the 45 boolit that you might be overwhelmed with picking one of them next if you go that route! I was pleasantly surprised with the 6 cavity Lee I purchased from another member here....

Oh and I realize that the 45c isn't exactly a "rifle" caliber but it is so versatile that I'm extremely happy I went that route. Of course I need to buy a 45/70 now just because... and a 30-30.... but I found that I can shoot the 45 with light Unique loads for plinking or switch over to 2400 or H110 if I need to drop the hammer.

Here's what I ended up buying after my search:
http://mckenziedrums.com/45ColtHenry.jpg

Thats pretty cool!!

[mckenziedrums]

Thanks! It's a blast to shoot... I've been wanting to get a lever gun for a while and after looking at all the caliber choices this one just fit the best. Picked up a single action revolver in 45 colt as well and it's a blast. Good luck in your hunt for a rifle!

[youngda9]

So who makes one of these 358 rifles everyone talks about having and where can I get one? Awhile back I looked for manufacturers of 358 rifles and couldn't find one. Or are they of a long gone caliber of a bygone era?

There's always some on gunbroker it seems, not being made anymore (Ruger, Savage, Winchester). Watch and you can get a NIB Ruger Hawkeye for under $600. I just got a NIB wood Hawkeye for $550 just 2 weeks ago. I got a NIB Stainless Hawkeye for the same price with dies and some bullets a year or two back on a local website. Deals are out there, you just have to keep on it. Search "Ruger 358" in completed listings on gunbroker and you'll see. Keep scouring google for WTS adds...and look at auction arms, armslist, gunsamerica, ebang, etc. regularly if you want to find a good deal.

Looks just like this one (except mine has even better wood!). Wonderful rifle.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/Shoalcove/Rifle1/358-2.jpg

[Smoke4320]

30-30, 308, 30-06 or a 45-70 and don't let anyone tell you the 45-70 will kick your a### and don't consider it. You are in control of the load you work up for it and can go from mild mouse fart to wild and mule kicking and everything in between
any of the above will shoot cast well..
the 30-30 and 45-70 being straight walled cases... the cases will last longer
The 45-70 can be loaded to handle any game is the US
if you do look for a 30-30 or 45-70 get the Marlin with ballard rifling and a JM barrel stamp (real marlin not the current Remington produced marlin stamped) Just makes shooting cast a real dream

[mckenziedrums]

The 45-70 can be loaded to handle any game


Fixed ;)

[whelenshooter]

Something in 35 Remington. Cartridge is designed for cast bullet speeds and is an effective hunting round up to 200 yards or so. Plus since you're a handgun shooter you might have some .357 cast around to plink with.

David

[Whiterabbit]

Since you are a 38 shooter, IF you consider a handi rifle or contender in 45/70 (and you should if you are a single shot guy!) then it will be necessary (IMO of course) to buy a 357 barrel for it. Too economical and fun to shoot not to get it.

People are saying 357mag *might* be too small for your deer up there. OK, ream to 357 max. If anyone tells me a fat meplat 250 grain bullet .375" diameter moving 1700 fps can't kill any deer, well.....

And at 25 yards, my 38+p, 357, and 357 max loads all shoot to the same POI. Well, within an inch or so. good enough for fun plinking, at any power level.

[TMenezes]

There's a lot of 38/357 fans, and it makes sense since you already load those.

But to me its fun and exiting to get a new to you caliber and mold once in awhile.

Plus, and this to me is big but may or may not matter to you, lead and casting is all about big low pressure boolits on the cheap. I love shooting my big bore 44's and 45's for pennies! I love making big holes in what I shoot.

30-30's are cool, and I have one of those. But a simplicty of reloading nothing is easier than straight walled pistol calibers.

I recommend a 44mag or 45 colt levergun personally, if you don't like that then I hear 38/357 mag is awesome to.