Recreating a close to original load in an Italian Vetterli carbine

[texassako]

I have wanted to own and shoot as many of the firearms my ancestor used, and this is my oldest yet. The family tree says I had an ancestor on my mother's side who served in the Italian cavalry in the time period these rifle were used. I have fiddled with using a heeled .44 American bullet and using the FL die to swage down a .44 cal pistol boolit after seating. The first worked ok and the second had horrible accuracy. I broke down and had Tom at Accurate cut a proper heeled mold in the original weight and design with the only differences being a flat nose and no hollow base. Cases are converted 8mm Lebel with some being PPU and some old military cases I converted to shotgun primers. The rim on the often recommended .348 Winchester was to small. My CH dies are just the right size without the expander to bring the neck back down a few thousandths for a little neck tension. Please ignore the wrinkly bullets, I wanted to get a few cast for a dummy cartridge and other uses. The case holds about 65 grains of BP and they also used semi-smokeless in them. It has been an interesting project up to this point.

The dummy 10.35x47r cartridge and a bullet:
84030

The M1870 carbine they go in:
84031

[The Goose]

A very interesting project. I look forward to the next installment. Please post more when you get it up and running. Great stuff!

[Outpost75]

840748407584073

My friend in Italy uses 12 grains of Techna Red or 15 grains of Granular Cheddite in his with MiHEC bullet similar to original.
These powders burn similar to Unique and Herco, respectively.

[texassako]

840748407584073

My friend in Italy uses 12 grains of Techna Red or 15 grains of Granular Cheddite in his with MiHEC bullet similar to original.
These powders burn similar to Unique and Herco, respectively.

That looks to be one of the 6.5mm conversions used in WWI. It was not a very safe conversion, but I bet it is interesting to shoot with a light cast load like you list.

[Outpost75]

84143 This one is an 8mm Lebel carbine.

You are correct, that one shown above is a 6.5, happened to be in the pics I took. The old pre-1891 rifles are popular in Italy because they are treated under their laws much like C&Rs are here, much less regulation. Bullet casting is common, typically use plainbased bullets from wheelweights with shotgun powders and shoot at steel targets from 50m to 300m. Seems like every small town in northern Italy has a range...84144

And yes! Cowboy matches are a big deal, I had an absolute ball shooting over there.

84145

[texassako]

Loaded the cartridges I previously converted to shotgun primers tonight. Bullet is dip lubed in 50/50 Crisco/beeswax over 65gr by volume(4.3cc Lee dipper) of Grafs FFFg I want to use up. The original cartridge used 60gr of BP but that left an air gap in the case. I dipped the base after casting and dipped the exposed tip after loading, wiping off the excess. They at least look very similar to the original design, and hopefully shoot as well. I might try smokeless since they also started loading these with 2.5 grams of Balistite in 1890.

A couple of mine:
84354

An original cartridge:
84355

What berdan primed rifle brass looks like converted to use shotgun primers:
84356

I hunted down most of the details in here: http://munizioni.eu/munizioni/forum/ecra/vetterli.pdf

[The Goose]

Nice job

[texassako]

Well, the bullet works like it should. A case full of FFFg was a bit more than it liked in my first try; so I took it to the range today to empty out the rest of those loads. I was surprised it did so much better(cooler and humid), but still only pie plate accuracy at 50 yards. I fired the 12 I had pretty quickly with no cleaning until the end with about the same fouling I would see after a few shots. I guess the original design worked well with the deep rifling to keep it cleaned out and functioning. The 8 empties from my first session were refilled with 11gr of Unique. It had already done OK with 250gr cast .44 cal pistol bullets and 13gr of Unique, but they were a real pain needing the loaded case to be sized to turn them into heeled bullets. I think a test of some other loads above and below the 11gr is in order. Pretty good I think for a 140 year old cavalry carbine, and I think some of the vertical spread is from me having a tough time with the sights:

97148

[MtGun44]

I wouldn't want to stand out there! Well done! Unique saves the day AGAIN!

Bill

[perotter]

Thanks for posting enough detailed information for a person to get started reloading and shooting these rifles.

[Hang Fire]

Was reading in National Rifleman last night about the 1920 battle of Blair mountain in WV between disgruntled coal miners and mine owner's gunmen. One of the favorites of the mountain folk, was Vetterli carbines and rifles, as it was a $7.50 bear gun most anyone could afford.

[texassako]

I tried some the other day with Trail Boss instead of continuing with Unique like I should have. I thought it would be a decent combination. Big mistake! Leading starting about 3" from the muzzle, poor accuracy, and started to keyhole after a couple of rounds.

[texassako]

I finally found success with BP in this project after finally getting back to it and getting some Fg powder. A 4.0 cc Lee dipper of Grafs Fg powder and using a .405 Lee FCD for a crimp(going through the top of the die) will put them in a 1"h x 2"w group at 50. I also figured out how to compensate for the coarse sights to shrink groups vertically, but it is still tough to repeat the point a aim side to side. I need to try a grease wad since it gets some real hard fouling in the last 2" of the barrel pretty quickly. Now that I have a lifetime supply of berdan primed Lebel brass to convert for this rifle, I can load more than a handful at a time.