Using fillers in cases

[George Tucker]

In using small amounts of powder in my 375H&H case, is it nessasary to have to use some type of filler?. i am using a old Lyman 375296 GC Bullet, thanks George.

[BruceB]

George;

Welcome to the asylum!!!!!

Perhaps without meaning it, you have asked THE question about one of the most-controversial aspects of our hobby. There are literally hundreds of threads here about this very subject of using fillers.

I am NOT trying to avoid your question, and I am a long-time user of dacron "fiberfill" (polyester pillow-stuffing, in other words).

I'll gently suggest you go to the toolbar at the top of the page, and do a search using "filler" for the keyword. I just did that out of curiosity, and you'll discover 28 PAGES of threads containing at least a mention of case fillers. If you can fight your way through all that, you'll have a pretty good grasp on the subject, I'd bet.

To respond to your immediate question, I'll say that yes, I would PROBABLY use a filler in your .375....but it depends on the powder, the charge, the bullet weight and other factors. Not a simple situation, in other words.

Hang around and enjoy yourself. We are glad to have you aboard.

[Single Shot]

I use filler (kapok) in light.243 loads and in the colt 45.

As stated above, do a search. Tons of info on this site.

[Buckshot]

............I'm a big user of fillers, fiber and granulated. Also cardwads with PB boolits in some rifle loads. I don't use dacron (spun poly fiber) or anything else with Unique or faster powders. Granulated poly (Grex, Super Sam, et al) go in cases with slow powders filling at least 75% of the case. Cardwads are only used when seated directly against the boolit's base without danger of falling off into the case body.

Ditto what BruceB said. Make a couple sandwiches and get a 6 pack and read on :-)

..............Buckshot

[9.3X62AL]

What Buckshot said. Usually. He acts like he knows little about handguns, but it's a complete hustle--otherwise, he's as straight as a laser. Mostly, he does that handgun shizzle to aggravate me.

Welcome to the board, and you DEFINITELY cut right to the chase with THAT question. After this query, all else will be tame and moderate by comparison.

[Jim]

George,
I've learned more from this forum than can be written in a volume of books. One thing I've learned is that the more detailed info you give us with your question, the fewer questions we have to ask you before we can give you an answer. E.G., you mentioned the boolit. That helps. Powder? Charge weight? Intention of cartridge?(hunting, targets, etc.)
I'm tellin' ya', man, there are guys here that make college ejukated, paid ballisticians look like morons!
And, what Al said. Don't let Buckshot "green" you. He's hiding a lot more than he lets on.

[waksupi]

Welcome George.
Some think it is flippant, to be referred to the search feature on a board when they ask a question. Not so, as there is just so much discussion that goes on concerning a topic. People have the instant gratification thing, that wants someone to answer a question, in a simple, concise paragraph. The more you learn shooting cast, the more you realise this is an impossibility, and every firearm is a law unto itself.
Enjoy yourself here. If you don't find the exact answer you seek on any topic, don't be afraid to ask. We have been known to kick things around more than once!

[mag_01]

George Tucker welcome to the board --- All good information stated above --- It's important to know what powder - Boolit combination you are using and what you want to accomplish with a filler. Some of the reasons for using a filler : acting like a gas check : improving performance of a poorly fitting Boolit ; Increase pressure : Keeping powder againts primer ( unnecessary with powders such as 2400 or others not sensitive to position in the case) : perhaps a tumbling boolit (improving fit to the bore): as well as other reasons some may have. Most of all use extreme caution when using fillers ----- Fillers RAISE PRESSURE --- Always start low and work up. There are solid type fillers such as PSB (shotgun buffer) I like fine ground walnut -- and light fillers such as Dacron which keep powder against primer. Fillers are not for everyone . There is plenty of information on fillers as well as pro and cons. Again welcome to the board and enjoy this forum -- many knowledgeable shooters here willing to share. ---- Mag_01

[22cf45]

This will probably open a can of worm but I've decided not to use fillers of any kind after reading Charles Dell's 'Modern Schuetzen Rifle'. it appears a wad up against the bullet base is OK, while one back against the powder to hold it in place is asking for a ringed chamber/barrel. He did state, however, that a wad of florist foam .2" in front of the powder was OK.

If you haven't read the chapter Charlie has in the book on this subject, it is worthwhile to take it in. Charlie did a lot of testing to back his conclusions.
Phil

[Char-Gar]

Ho Boy!!! Fillers again!!! :-) It has been a month or two since we have wrestled that one around.

The boys are correct about doing a search and you will have way more information that you want on the subject. You will also find out there is no agreement on when, how and what kind of fillers to use.

The 374 H&H does well with cast bullets and bullet you mentioned is one of the best. Elmer Keith used to shoot this bullet in the 375 with a dose of 4895 powder.

It has been almost 30 years since I have owned a 375 H&H, but when I did, the rifle (a Winchester 70) did well with that bullet and Elmer's old load.

When I use a filler, I use a shotshell buffer (PSB) and make certain the powder charge is 70% or greated of case capacity. That means medium to slow powders depending on case capacity.

I have had very good luck with surplus WC872 toped off with PSB in large cases. That is where I would start, if I had another 375. It might take a small kicker charge of medium burning powder (3031) to be a clean burn. There is plenty of room to experiment in this area.

Before I get skinned by some of the boys for the above mention of a "kicker" charge, I need to add a loader should stay away from duplex loads unless they know damn certain what they are doing. There are lots of us who do it, but it is post-graduate handloading and needs to be approached with extreme caution.

Welcome to the board and best of luck with you cast bullet persuits.

[Larry Gibson]

In using small amounts of powder in my 375H&H case, is it nessasary to have to use some type of filler?. i am using a old Lyman 375296 GC Bullet, thanks George.

Small amounts of WHAT powder? If it is 2400, 4198, 5744, 4227 or a faster burning powder then I recommend no filler (or wad). However if it is a medium or slow burning powder then I'd recommend a dacron filler. A 1/2 to 1/12 gr tuft (depending on how much is needed to fill the case and prevent powder migration). Remember the filler is going to increase the ignition efficiency and thus raises pressure and velocity a bit. So, work back up to your load if using the filler.

I'm using a 377449 GC (WWs + 5% tin) which weighs 277 gr all lubed and GC'd over 40 gr of 4895 with 1 1/2 gr tuft of dacron filler in my .375 M70. Very accurate and comfrtable load to shoot at 1814 fps. For a heavy practice load or hunting load the same bullet over 50 gr of 4895 with 1/2 gr tuft of dacron filler runs 2191 fps. Your bullet is pretty close to mine so your results should be pretty close.

With AA5744 the same bullet over 36 gr with NO filler runs 1852 fps and is also a pretty good practice load. It appears to me that 5744 burns "hot" as in temerature not pressure. The barrel heats up quicker with 5744 than when the same number of rounds with 4895 are used.

Larry Gibson

[George Tucker]

Thanks to all of you for replying, i have used cast bullets in Handguns for yrs, but the only Cast Bullet i have used in Rifles is the 330grHP Gould Bullet in my #1 in 45-70, in the 375 H&H i will use 375296 Bullet cast of WW and water quenched, i am going to try 4895, i also have mold # 375248 PB that i am going to try at lower volosities, thanks Guys, George.