Group Buy On .434-200-RF

[Scrounger]

So far I have resisted temptation and avoided buying any of the group buys. But here's one I couldn't resist, IF it happens. I'm thinking a six-holer something like the Lyman 429215 or Sierra 210gr jacketed bullet, only in a diameter that makes it workable in Marlins. And with the gas check so we can push it hard. Note the weight/length is also compatible with the Marlin twist. How many of you guys would go for this one?

[Dutch4122]

Sounds like an interesting idea to me. Problem is I'm tied up in 4 group buys right now as it is. Money is the only thing holding me back from sending a check! :(

[Poorboy]

The 429215 would be great.

Poorboy

[Willbird]

I suppose one of those wou;d make it chear thru an oHIo deer :-) It would be a cute little thing.

so I would have to have one :-)



Bill

[45 2.1]

Here are a couple of 200 gr. versions, but what I would really like to see is a 180 gr. PBRF.

[Scrounger]

Here are a couple of 200 gr. versions, but what I would really like to see is a 180 gr. PBRF.

They look good. I like the looks of the first one better but it would need a gas check; I got a heavy foot.

[45 2.1]

They look good. I like the looks of the first one better but it would need a gas check; I got a heavy foot.

The second one is a gas check version of the first one. The problem with gas checks is that they take up a minimum of 0.100" of bearing length and this weight bullet doesn't have any to spare. I have been playing with lighter plain base bullets in 44 mag rifles for some time. The only problem has been that they are a little undersize, the LEE especially. I have one SC 429215 that has the gas check shank opened up to PB and it casts at 0.433". That one has shown great promise with being accurate when pushed. The problem with it is that it doesn't have much lube capacity now. I really think a PB that is between 180 and 200 gr. that is cast hard and is oversize will do very well here.

[Scrounger]

The second one is a gas check version of the first one. The problem with gas checks is that they take up a minimum of 0.100" of bearing length and this weight bullet doesn't have any to spare. I have been playing with lighter plain base bullets in 44 mag rifles for some time. The only problem has been that they are a little undersize, the LEE especially. I have one SC 429215 that has the gas check shank opened up to PB and it casts at 0.433". That one has shown great promise with being accurate when pushed. The problem with it is that it doesn't have much lube capacity now. I really think a PB that is between 180 and 200 gr. that is cast hard and is oversize will do very well here.

Alright, the plain based bullet you want, how fast can we push it? Lyman says the 429215 can be run up to just barely under 2000 FPS in a rifle; will plainbase stand up to that? If so, I'm game. (Or is that gamey?)

[felix]

Won't work, Scrounger! We need a gas checked version for more than 3 or 4 rounds. What was the load to produce 2K? At 2K the meplat might have to be reduced a little to assure 100 yard accuracy at 200 grains. Or, increase the weight to 230 or so. No proof, just in-to-it (intuition). Possibly just to extend the first pic to include a gas check would work. ... felix

[45 2.1]

That 429215 PB i have has gotten me to 1700 fps with the tiny little bitty lube groove that it has left without anything other than flash leading, but it needs more lube to try it further. I have used foam Gas checks behind it also to good avail. I think cast about Lyman #2 hardness, it might be ok. If I wanted to go higher, I would free check it and have absolutely no trouble getting there. As to altering your H&I die to free check your bullets and getting a correct punch, that would be little trouble.

[Scrounger]

Seems I remember KCSO mentioning a custom bullet he designed for the Marlin, at about 225 grains if I remember right. Wonder if he has any thoughts that might lead us out of the wilderness...

Addendum: On second thought that might have been Bass Ackward that had his own bullet design.... I'd like to stay around 200 grains though because I want to hit 2K with it.

[45 2.1]

Same PB New GC version

[Dutch4122]

I like the looks of that new GC version with more lube capacity. Am I to assume this thing is gonna drop at .434" cast of wheelweight? Could be a lot of fun in my Marlin 1894SS.

[Bodydoc447]

45 2.1,

Damn, but you do GOOD stuff. I would have to get in on that GC version if that is the one coming to fruition. Thanks for all the work you and many, many others put in to make these interesting projects come to life.

Doc

[Singletree]

If this design is around 200 to 230 grains and drops at 434 diameter with wheel weights, either PB or GC, I would like in on this one.

[jeff223]

ha you guys think this boolit will work out of a 445 super mag TC Contender?http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

i might be in for one of these boolit molds if you think so.a nice shooting 200 to 240 cast boolit would be just the ticket.not much luck with a cast boolit so far for me but im willing to try something like this out.im thinking to stick with the light weights for this 445sm to keep the recoil down some

[Bass Ackward]

Addendum: On second thought that might have been Bass Ackward that had his own bullet design.... I'd like to stay around 200 grains though because I want to hit 2K with it.

All,

As food for thought, my design was an olgival at 225 grains. Combine that with the fact that I needed a front drive band of .180 to minimize bullet jump and there was very little flexibility left, for over all design. My bullet has no lube grooves and only the GC groove for lube. Strangly enough, I have had it to 2000 fps with no leading. My guess is that you can get away with less lube based on the short bearing area.

FWIW. If I had to do this over again, I believe that I would have made it a trunicated cone design to cut unsupported nose weight and increase or maximize barring area or add an actual lube groove close behind the crimp groove. The farther forward on the bullet you can store lube, the less of it you actually need. But the bullets do mold and drop sweet. HTH.

[waksupi]

"The farther forward on the bullet you can store lube, the less of it you actually need."

I've believed this for quite some time, and have considered trying to set up the lubrisizer to do front grooves, particularly on a few Loverin designs I have. Anyone played with this?
The only draw back I see for my general usage, is I prefer the lube in the case neck, whenever possible.

[Bret4207]

The PB version looks an awfull lot like a BD45, quite a sucessfull design,

[Bass Ackward]

"The farther forward on the bullet you can store lube, the less of it you actually need."

I've believed this for quite some time, and have considered trying to set up the lubrisizer to do front grooves, particularly on a few Loverin designs I have. Anyone played with this?
The only draw back I see for my general usage, is I prefer the lube in the case neck, whenever possible.

Ric,

I have played with this some. And I give a lot of credit to Liquid Alox at times because of that very fact.

Let's say that I use just LQA. Say that combo with a soft bullet craps with a certain hardness at 1800 fps. Changing to a hydralic lube might get me to 2100, but combine the two and cut back on the hydralic lube and I can still go on up. So far, this is my cold weather technique that performs the best. Liquid Alox dusted with mica on the whole bullet and then lube just in the gas check groove and maybe the first grease groove up. The less hydralic lube I use in winter, the better off I am.

I have played some with lubing the upper grooves, but it is a pain to apply in every way that I tried except nose dipping and nose first sizing it in the grooves. But this rules out bore rides which get the LQA treatment. So those are my experiences.

[Dutch4122]

So, are we going anywhere with this one? Sure did like the idea of the gas checked 200-210 grn RFGC at .434 for the Marlin leverguns. :)

[gregg]

I have a Rossi that likes GC bullet and has heart burn with a plane base bullet.
Bore is a .431. I have a SBH 44 with a .433 chambers and barrel. .434 sounds
good to me. I like where this is going.

[Scrounger]

I'm definitely interested if this one gets going.

[drinks]

My '67 Lyman manual shows both 200gr jacketed and 205gr cast bullets at speeds of 2000fps+ in the .44-40 with about 27gr of 2400.
A 200-215gr gc .434 should be a nice bullet to try in the newer barrels that seem to be .431 groove dia.
Will not do much for my '92, it is .429 groove, but the chamber is so tight that any bullet sized over .428 will not chamber.
It is just able to keep the Remchester factory 200gr jacketed on a 9" paper plate at 100yds.
I have done 2" at 50yds with a .429 bullet with the part going in the neck sized down to .428, but that is a pain to do.