30-40 In a 1895 winchester

[Eric H]

I was wondering about old calibers that were desighed using black powder. Can you load black powder in those rounds instead of smokless. I am not planning on doing it. But was wondering if anyone does .Or is it a thing of the past. Other than muzzle loaders

[fouronesix]

The 30-40 was actually a smokeless cartridge from the get go, much like the 30-30. You may be thinking of the 32-40 which was originally a blackpowder cartridge later loaded with smokeless.

As to the other part of the question- many blackpowder cartridge shooters around.

[MT Chambers]

The early '95s were chambered in Bp cartridges, a .38 and a .40, and of course the .303 British.

[fouronesix]

About 1894-5 was near the peak of the transition era from BP to smokeless ammo and firearms. But it was a transition. Not like- go to bed one night and all ammo and firearms are BP, wake up the next morning and all are smokeless.

Within the Winchester lever group, The Win M1895 was designed as a smokeless ammo rifle. The same applies to the M1894. The problem with the first year roll out of the M1894 was that smokeless ammo wasn't ready yet so the first rounds chambered in the 94 were two older BP rounds- the 32-40 and the 38-55.

Nostalgia and a "cling to the past mentaility" were the likely reasons Models like the 1894, 1895, 1892 and 1886 were also chambered in some older BP rounds. Plus some of the older BP rounds were readily adaptable to smokeless powders loadings. I imagine many if not most original older model 94s, 95s, 92s, and 86s so chambered would have fired both BP and smokeless factory ammo.

[MT Chambers]

The earliest chamberings were the Bp 38-72 and 40-72 and although I am not a Win. expert, I believe that these were "flatsides", the most desirable of all 1895s, except maybe the 7.62X54 Russian contract rifles.

[fouronesix]

I think that's right with some of the collectors of 1895s. The other sub market seems to look for special order or deluxe versions. Personally, I keep looking for a 405 with a TR engraved plaque inlet in the buttstock. :)

[fouronesix]

Another interesting thing about Winchester history is the confluence of timing and the genius of Browning. Winds of change were in the air when Browning presented Winchester with the M1886 design. At a time when all ammo was still of blackpowder design. Even though the M86 was first produced in the blackpowder era, it was plenty strong enough for moderate smokeless loads. Likewise with its small cousin the M92. So with the smokeless era transition of the mid 1890s, Winchester already had two lever rifles in production and ready for smokeless ammo.

Browning continued to work on smokeless lever gun designs and by 1894 and 1895 Winchester had two more dedicated smokeless shooters. In 1894- a slimmed down, lighter weight and less expensive to build/sell smokeless lever gun in the M1894 followed closely by a lever gun capable of handling even more powerful smokeless cartridges with semi-spire point jacketed bullets- the M1895.

[Eric H]

Thanks for all the great Info.