Show Us your Rhinelander 45 ACP Mauser Conversions

[TCLouis]

Several of us here on the site bought those several years ago.

I ran into a snag with the action someone had given me so mine is still unfired.

Either the bolt, cocking piece or the firing pin is wrong for the action.
The action has been ground and has NO markings whatsoever.
It is small ring.

Picked it up the other day and decided to get it going here in the near future at least as a single shot.

Depending on performance may even hunt with it this year!

[W.R.Buchanan]

I shelved mine due to my inability to get it to feed even remotely reliable. It is something that I will get back to someday as the feeding problem is primarily with the magazines.

I have seen some recently that I think might work a little better but didn't buy them at the time since I back burnered the project.

They have a full length cartridge follower and I think that will help with the nose diving issue that is the current problem with feeding reliability. The feed ramp will also have to be modified as well as the bolt stop and ejector blade and box.

Lots of work to get this one to be a reliable gun.

Not what I had in mind when I bought the Rhineland Kit.

Randy

[Larry Gibson]

Mine feed RN loads quite well, SWCs are still somewhat iffy but I still shoot a lot of them.

Larry Gibson

[Charley]

Don't have any pictures handy, but I built one on a Brazilian SR action, feeds RN ok, SWCs are iffy. Wish I could come up with a better ejector, though. Not the greatest caliber conversion, but workable.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Larry: what exactly did you do to get it to feed right? The common problem seems to be the cartridge nose diving while being stripped off the mag which in turn runs it into the feed ramp at a nearly 90 degree angle causing a stoppage.

The other part of the problem is when the round nose dives, the rim of the cartridge is outside the extractor, so it doesn't get slid under the extractor which makes it impossible to close the bolt.

As we know a Mauser action must feed from the magazine and in order for this thing to work right it has to capture the rim of the cartridge everytime. The reason for this is due to the big gap the cartridge must cross as it heads towards the chamber. This gap wasn't a problem with the long bottleneck cartridges the action was designed for since half the cartridge was already in the chamber before the round stripped completely from the magazine feed lips. This also allowed the cartridge rim to be guided more accurately under the extractor.

With the .45 ACP cartridge the round is released from the magazine at about the same time it is trying to find the extractor and since the cartridge is not already partially in the chamber it is a krap shoot if it is going to actually hit the bolt face right.

How did you get around all this?

Randy

My Novak mag works fairly well if you don't load it all the way however it never feeds a whole magazine without a hang up.

[deltaenterprizes]

I shelved mine due to my inability to get it to feed even remotely reliable. It is something that I will get back to someday as the feeding problem is primarily with the magazines.

I have seen some recently that I think might work a little better but didn't buy them at the time since I back burnered the project.

They have a full length cartridge follower and I think that will help with the nose diving issue that is the current problem with feeding reliability. The feed ramp will also have to be modified as well as the bolt stop and ejector blade and box.

Lots of work to get this one to be a reliable gun.

Not what I had in mind when I bought the Rhineland Kit.

Randy
Mine does the same thing, got it to feed with 6 rnds, I thought it was the mags too.
I have not worked on it for a while.

Update! I used a Wilson Extra Duty magazine and feeding problems went away!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Larry Gibson, are you there?

Randy

[Hackleback]

On the site, it states not to use the intermediate Yugo actions (24,24/47, and 48) because of feeding issues. Not sure if this is the case above.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Hacklebeck: Mine has a Turkish Mauser action which they recommend highly. There are several issues, first finding a 1911 magazine with a full length no tilt follower would solve a lot of the feed issues.

However another big item is the locking lug recess between the feed ramp and chamber. This no mans land causes problems because the only support the feeding round has is if it is locked under the extractor in it's final position before it enters that area. Otherwise if it is not fully captured by the bolt face, it can and will try to go into the chamber cockeyed. Also if the cartridge rim is not under the extractor the bolt will not close. Military Mausers like this must feed from the magazine as there is no single loading feature like Springfields have. (One of the improvements we did when we stole the Mauser design..)

After playing with mine, I have concluded that the best type of action for this type of rifle is a bolt action with rear locking lugs, like an Enfield or a Spanish Destroyer. Neither of which have the lug recess in front of the chamber. The round feeds directly into the chamber from the magazine.

Several people here have gotten these things to work right, most have had the issues described above.

I think I can get mine to function well, however it will require a lot of work and fine tuning and I have several other projects in front of it. When I bought the kit I worked on the gun to get it into a stock and up and running because it looked like a simple quick project.

I am a highly skilled Machinist, Toolmaker and amateur gunsmith.

It ain't that easy unless you get real lucky !

Believe me this would be a very cool gun if I can get it to run right.

Randy

[Hackleback]

I have been wanting to build one of these up, so this is good information. Do you think that chambering this in 45 win mag, or even a wildcat 45 super win mag would help with these feeding issues, in that the cartridge would be longer and more like the "parent" cartridge that these actions were chambered in? I know that you would need to use a different,(not the 1911) or the original magazine for this.

[W.R.Buchanan]

It would be more of the same, since a .45 Win is only about.1 longer than the .45acp. A better way to go "I think" is to use a different kit that is made for an Enfield.

Artful posted the link to those earlier in the other thread. Some outfit in Nevada makes a conversion that is supposed to be pretty good. $300 for everything.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK today I purchased a Wilson Combat magazine to try in my Rhineland conversion. It did no better than any other mag I have.

It had a no tilt follower and did not nosedive the cartridges. That was the only positive thing. However it didn't hold onto the cartridge any longer than the other mags did so half of them didn't get picked up by the bolt face.

Rhineland has to know this is a very marginal conversion.

Randy

[Larry Gibson]

Randy

Sorry for the late reply, lost track of the thread......no excuse I know......

I made a sheet metal modification to the feed ramp. Part is made to fold under the front receiver just in front of the mag well. It folds up and is form fitted into the feed ramp make a somewhat gentler slope and taking up some of the space that the bullet nose dives into. I'll take picture of it in place and post tomorrow.

The extractor does have to be tweaked so the rim slips up under it prior to the rim being released from the mag. I get better feeding now with standard GI mags. The case must fit up into the bolt face with only a bare amount of tension to hold it. If there is too much tension the extractor pushes the case sideways which jams the bullet into the side of the barrel or pops the rim out ahead of the extractor. Take a little off at a time. I'll post a picture of the modified extractor also.

Mine feeds GI ball and RN cast bullet loads with 100% reliability and #68 and Lee's 190 SWCs with probably 99% reliability. A lot has to do with the mag and how smoothly I operate the bolt. So far I am pleased with my conversion and don't consider it "marginal" at all. I've done 3 of them now on M98s and once tweaked correctly they feed reliably.

I also blocked the empty space behind the mag to prevent cases from spinning around and jamming things up in there. Additionally I made a new ejector to max dimensions my action would allow.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

Photo's; Here is the sheet metal ramp.

86919

The block made to conceal the hole in the mag well behind the ACP mag.

86920

The case into the bolt face before it meets resistance from the extractor. The case must slip in this far while being pushed out of the mag to ensure the rim slips under the extractor and the cartridge nose does not cant off to the right.

8692186922

The case with the cartridge up under the extractor when chambered just before the bolt is closed.

86923

Close up of reshaped extractor.

86925

New ejector made to max dimensions action allows.

86926

Hope this helps. Will be glad to answer questions.

Larry Gibson

[W.R.Buchanan]

Larry: Thanks, I see what you did and if I have more q's I will PM you. Everything you did makes sense.

I had cut back the extractor a little per the instructions however it could go a little further. I have seen the pushing of the cartridge to the right malfunction many times.

Randy

[redneckdan]

Larry: Thanks, I see what you did and if I have more q's I will PM you. Everything you did makes sense.

I had cut back the extractor a little per the instructions however it could go a little further. I have seen the pushing of the cartridge to the right malfunction many times.

Randy

Any one ever take one of these barrels and ream it to 450 bushmaster?

[deltaenterprizes]

I got mine to work with a Wilson Combat #608 1911 Service Mag Plus.
It has 7 rnd capacity , no tilt follower & extra power spring.

[deltaenterprizes]

Took my rifle out Sunday and it fed all 7 cartridges! Extractor still needs a little work.

[Larry Gibson]

Took my rifle out Sunday and it fed all 7 cartridges! Extractor still needs a little work.

Just tweak a little at a time until it feeds reliably. Can't put back on what you take of that extractor. Just go slow a bit at a time with several mags fed between "tweaks".

Pictures?

Larry Gibson

[deltaenterprizes]

Not sure how to post pics from my phone, PM me your email address and I will send you some.

[Larry Gibson]

Not sure how to post pics from my phone, PM me your email address and I will send you some.

Posting his pictures. Looks like a well done conversion to military configuration.

Larry Gibson

8908389084

[deltaenterprizes]

Thanks for helping a computer challenged member !

[carbine86]

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k140/willaimsnick/20140211_111735_zps64c4077d.jpg?t=1392146119
Just picked this up today in a trade. Working on trying to figure out something as far as the sights go. I am thinking about building one if I can find another mauser for a steal and try to do a folding stock similar to a paratrooper carbine.

[mikeym1a]

carbine86 - you got that in a trade? WOW! beautiful stock. Even if it don't work right, I'd say the stock was worth it. Hope it does work. I'd love one like it, to go with my 1911A1. Congrats!!!:-D

[carbine86]

Thanks I traded a ruger 10/22 with one brick of auto match for it. The only things wrong with it is a broken ejector,an un modified extractor and the mag release in not the extended type. Besides that it feeds without the rounds nose diving.

[izzyjoe]

I had plans on building one on a 93 mauser, but after hearing the minor problems they've had I decided on something else.

[carbine86]

I cant wait to build one myself now. Maybe in 45 win mag.

[Shooter6br]

96606Not quite a Rhinelander but........................(Mech Tech )

[ABluehound]

I did a similar mod to a .308 Ishapore that was more labor intensive because I wanted to use a double stack magazine. I chucked the receiver in the lathe and bored back 2 inches past the action screws. Bought a new old stock bolt and cut it down and redid the internal threads, cut the firing pin etc. Extended the barrel into the receiver past the threads shortening the action moving the magazine back against the trigger guard. Closer to the authentic Delisle carbine up to that point. Then added a Glock 21 magazine instead of that of a 1911 and then continued to add "Tupperware" ala A side folding VZ58 mako tactical stock on a hand fitted aluminum adapter and glass filled front stock.

I can't say sadly, I recently sold it. On a recent trip to the firing range I was offered an insane amount for it by a pair of GI's and told them if they could have cash before I left for the day they could have it. Now they have it and I miss it.

I picked up a trio of no1 mk 3's at a recent gun-show. One a un-built receiver that would make an awesome Sapper style pistol in 45 acp (Instead of a rifle round) like I have been drooling over since finding one researching the first delisle build. A 303 Ishapore grenade launcher bubba had his hands all over that will be eventually replace the one I sold. The third 2A that I might let stay as it is because it is nice. I may build the two up at the same time since I will have the tooling up. Using what I learned from the first there should be a couple improvements like a more thoughtful mag latch/release. More projects for the pile...

If you are having ejector problems, take out the ejector screw and try a flat spring on the outside left of the receiver twisted and cut at an angle using the original ejector hole that reaches almost an eighth of an inch into the action that will allow the bolt to push it out of the way when closing that will still bump the base of the shell out when you open it. I have seen builds using plunger pins but they look awkward sticking out the side of the action.

[carbine86]

Has anyone worked up a nice fast 45 super load for these yet? I would love to try and take a deer with mine this year. Just finished "mine" as the wife claimed my first one as her own. Mine looks much better and I will try to post up a few pictures of them sometime tomorrow.

[carbine86]

This is the one I did myself
101107

[Sekatoa]

Nice! Where is the stock from, or did you make it?

[carbine86]

Its a boyds stock that I got from another member on here.

[Larry Gibson]

Has anyone worked up a nice fast 45 super load for these yet? I would love to try and take a deer with mine this year. Just finished "mine" as the wife claimed my first one as her own. Mine looks much better and I will try to post up a few pictures of them sometime tomorrow.

I push a soft cast GC'd 452490 (245 gr) at 1225 fps over 7.3 gr Unique (SAAMI max +P). Same bullet but HP'd (230 gr) over Blue Dot for 1350 fps and pushing 1400+ over LilGun. Haven't pressure tested the last 2 yet so won't publish the load.

Given the effectiveness of similar velocities with similar cast bullets in the 44 Magnum and 45 Colt I expect it would be deadly on deer. The legality would be the question as some regulations regarding the use of such a cartridge are somewhat anal.

Larry Gibson

[405grain]

110339 Here's a Turkish Mauser that I converted a couple of years ago. It works great. I was having nose dive/feeding issues at first, but made a feed ramp by casting hard epoxy in between the magazine adapter and the original Mauser feed ramp. Now it feeds both round nose and semi-wadcutters. It shoots about an inch and a half group at 50 yards. It's quiet, has almost no recoil, and is fun to shoot. If I made another one, I'd make it a sporter, as the "military" configuration is a little heavy.

[skiddyfisk]

Here's my science project:

http://i.imgur.com/P42Hqlf.jpg

Rhineland kit on a VZ24 action with a random stock that doesn't really fit.

You can put some pretty silly loads through these. I haven't gotten perfect feeding but it's reasonably reliable with RN and XTP bullets.

If I had the money I'd build another one but rechamber for .45 raptor and use the original internal magazine. That'd probably be good for anything on the continent.

[webradbury]

These are awesome! But imagine one integrally suppressed...awesomer!!

[nekshot]

question for those of you who have these and they work. Is there a certain way you must bolt them to work every time? Can you move the bolt slow, or must you do it quick? I nuts around with a 357 on a carcano and it appears to maybe work if you bolt it real fast, I mean by pushing the bolt in smartly. If we could put sako/rem extracters in these guns you could have all sorts of fun!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Neck: Larry Gibson is the resident guru on this. He has done several and he gets them to work by opening up the extractor until the cartridge rim slips under it easily.

If it is right it will work either way slow or fast.

I haven't gotten mine to work right yet but I can see it working..

The biggest problem with the Mauser action is that it must feed the cartridge from the magazine. The Extractor is too stiff to snap over the rim . If I do another one it will be with and Enfield action. They did it first anyway, but the Enfield action is really a push feed action and the Extractor will snap over the rim of the cartridge if it needs to. Also the ejector on the Enfield is a stud sticking thru the receiver in the bolt race so it can be moved forward and you can limit the stroke easier.

Randy

[skiddyfisk]

You have to work it like you mean it, for sure. Even then it's very, very finicky. It has to travel further from magazine to chamber than it would in a pistol and it's easy to line up wrong and jam.

[35remington]

A hint is Larry and the other poster's (he used the Wilson Service, which is a tapered lip hybrid magazine made by Checkmate) use of tapered lip magazines, the originals John Browning intended to be used in the 1911. These let the rear of the round riser higher in feeding before it is released, giving the round a straighter shot at the chamber than straight lip 1911 magazines, which are really nonstandard. The case rim is also at less of an angle to the extractor when it feeds straighter, which improves its chances of getting there.

Most of you are using the wrong magazines for 1911's and don't know it as whatever you have was hawked to you as the "best" for the 1911. The "best" was what John Browning intended, which were tapered lip magazines. This same design has the best chance (chance....not guarantee, as you're pushing the envelope in running these through a rifle) of feeding.

[Buckeye Marksman]

Here's my science project:

http://i.imgur.com/P42Hqlf.jpg

Rhineland kit on a VZ24 action with a random stock that doesn't really fit.

You can put some pretty silly loads through these. I haven't gotten perfect feeding but it's reasonably reliable with RN and XTP bullets.

If I had the money I'd build another one but rechamber for .45 raptor and use the original internal magazine. That'd probably be good for anything on the continent.

Someone name DaSOB did this back in 2011. Below is a link to his write-up:

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?248024-Introducing-the-460-SB-Magnum

Looks like his 460 SB Magnum may have predated the 45 Raptor :-)

[justashooter]

nice stuff. I just bought a chambered 45 ACP barrel in 16.25 length and am planning to convert a carcano with it and a 1911 magazine. the controlled feed design of the bolt face on carcano seem ideal for solving the feeding issues reported.

[crawfobj]

This has been on my list for a while now. I have a sporterized Turk that should fit the bill nicely if I can find the time to get around to it. This it's creaming to be suppressed.

[Larry Gibson]

Just waiting on the Fed paperwork to suppress mine....already have the barrel threaded.

249662

[brstevns]

Know this is a old thread but any new pics?

[rondog]

Maybe someday some mfg. will offer a bolt action .45acp rifle that works great right out of the box? I know, I'm a dreamer.....

[brstevns]

Putting one together on a Mexican small ring 98. Praying the whole time I am doing it, that all works well.

[Texas by God]

Maybe someday some mfg. will offer a bolt action .45acp rifle that works great right out of the box? I know, I'm a dreamer.....I would be a buyer for one of those!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[SKS]

Does anyone have the original pictures linked to in this post? The attachments no longer work:


Photo's; Here is the sheet metal ramp.

86919

The block made to conceal the hole in the mag well behind the ACP mag.

86920

The case into the bolt face before it meets resistance from the extractor. The case must slip in this far while being pushed out of the mag to ensure the rim slips under the extractor and the cartridge nose does not cant off to the right.

8692186922

The case with the cartridge up under the extractor when chambered just before the bolt is closed.

86923

Close up of reshaped extractor.

86925

New ejector made to max dimensions action allows.

86926

Hope this helps. Will be glad to answer questions.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

257427257428257429257430257431257432

Subsequent to the above modifications I removed the barrel and made three additional modifications; two to the face of the barrel and the other to the inside of the M98 action. First I put a small ball grinder in a Dremel and round off the sharp corners on the inside of the action where the extractor slot is cut in the inner receiver ring so the bullet wouldn't hang up in it. Second modification was to the barrel. I beveled the edge of the chamber slightly removing the sharp edge of the chamber mouth so the bullet or case would hang up there. then I "throated" (ala a M1911 barrel) the area of the face of the barrel that is in the extractor slot.

These modifications have made my M98 Rhineland conversion almost 100% reliable in feeding with the exception of very short SWC bullets. The last modification I will make will be to gets a finish reamer. The barrel with the factory chamber, when headspaced, leaves about 1 turn left before the barrel seats firmly against inner shoulder in the receiver. I will seat the barrel firmly against that shoulder (like a M98 barrel is supposed to be) and then finish ream the chamber to headspace. Setting the barrel back that additional bit will further reduce the amount of jump the cartridge has to make from magazine to chamber. That may make it feed 100% reliably? Still a work in progress as I learn more and more about it. It is such a joy to shoot, especially suppressed, that it's quickly becoming my most shot for fun rifle...….

[SKS]

Thank you sir!

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I put one together on a yugo mauser. Basically a single shot but it is quiet and accurate. Makes a good close range deer gun.

[Larry Gibson]

I set the barrel back on my M98 Rhineland so it buts up against the internal barrel stop (Kuhnhausen calls it an "internal barrel torque shoulder") as a Mauser is supposed to and then tightened the barrel nut. That set the barrel back 0.125. I rented a finish reamer and finish reamed the chamber to headspace. While the barrel was out of the action I used beveled the chamber mouth at 45 degrees to the top edge of the extractor groove in a chambered case. The out diameter of the bevel is just a tudge smaller than the inside diameter of the barrel stop shoulder. I then "throated" (beveled further out) the open area where the extractor cut is in the "internal barrel torque shoulder". That left no sharp edge for a kitty wampas bullet when feeding to catch on.

Shot 250 rounds of various cast bullet styles through it a couple days ago with 100% feeding reliability.....:awesome:

Also have the suppressor on it now......less noise than my RWS M54 22 cal air rifle......

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