Planning for first deer in GA. Which lever rifle? 357 or 454?

[357shooter]

Hi guys,

This must have been asked a 1,000 times, but some quick searches didn't help all that much. I'm thinking the deer aren't all that large here in Georgia, but need some expert advice not ever having hunted. I have been casting, loading and shooting for several years so that part is not a concern for me. Sticking with the two Rossi M92's that I have, what would you load? Here is what I have and some loads that shoot really well already:

357 magnum, 20 inch: I have a 145-RF with a gas check that loves 14.5 grains of 2400. I also have a Keith and a 180WFN from NOE that both like a full load of W296. Right now I have a 2x scope mounted.

454 Casull, 20 inch: I shoot a lot of the Lee 300 grain gas check bullets. For target work, 16 grains of 2400 is really sweet. I have a Marbles bullseye iron sight on it, but have another weaver mount and scope handy.

Assuming I do my part, will the 357 get the job done? Would the 145 be enough bullet? Also, would the 16 grains load be enough? According to Quickload the 300 grain Lee, with it's large meplat, should be around 1,300fps. I've read the a 300 grain bullet at 1,300fps is a pretty good load for a lot of game. Or do I need increase to 18-19 grains?

Thanks for the advice. I'm looking forward to having some venison in the freezer! Just gotta go find some deer... :bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:

[dk17hmr]

I would take both of them.... 454 one day 357 the next.

I would opt for the 180gr WFN in the 357. Your 454 load needs no work, 300gr at 1300fps shouldn't stop in a whitetail at the range you are likely to be shooting.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
So far every corn cruncher I have had to help track down was shot with a caliber.357 not using at least a 180 grain. The 180 grainers seem very realiable to exit thus leaving a much better "trial" to follow.
An old Michigan hunter told me years ago to use a lead boolit in a pistol caliber that weights at least as much in grains as the deer weights in pounds. Have found that to be good advice. I possitively want to ere on shooting too heavy a boolit than to discover my pill was too light.
This being your first hunt I would use the caliber 454. I have popped bean eaters for many years and I still remind myself "relax... breath..." Last thing you want to have to be wondering is "if" your first shot is going to get the job done.
Mike in Peru

[TCLouis]

First one or two and then switch over to 180 grainer in 357.

When one looks way back, Milet and Herrett proved the 357 Herrett on elk with the Sierra 140 gain coated bullet.

[Lonegun1894]

Either one will do fine on your deer. I would say to take whichever you feel more comfortable with, if you have any preference. In not, well, take both and switch back and forth just like was suggested above.

[357shooter]

Thanks for the good advice and tips guys. This is very reasuring.

[Stephen Cohen]

I shot my first deer 11mths ago, while red deer are bigger than whitetail from what I have seen. The one I nailed was a young spiker about whitetail size, I certainly did not feel over gunned with the 375 whelen I used. I am a great believer in more is better when it comes to calibre, it will buck foliage better and let more air in and blood out. Since you stated its your first hunt, you will suffer a bit of buck fever and need every edge you can get to make it the memorable day mine was. Good hunting good luck and let us know how you did. Regards Stephen.

[A pause for the COZ]

I have that same M92 in 357 magnum. If you can get those 180 grainers to fly they would be a great choice. That was my goal for my M92 to use it as a brush gun with 180 grain deer whackers.
My attempts have been thwarted by Rossi's use of a 1 in 30 twist rate. Any load at the weight I have tried has been very inaccurate. Cant even hit a 12 inch x 12 inch card board square at 100 yards.
125gr seems to be the sweet spot for mine. Can shoot the bull out at 200 yards no problem. 158 gr loads also shoot acceptable.

So give some 180 gr pills a try. if you get a good load. post it here. I want to try it. My M92 is stuck shooting targets only, because of it.

[runfiverun]

the newer taurossi's do seem to suffer from taurusitis.
they changed the twist on some of their leverguns and bore diameters seem to suffer the same fate.
my older 357 handles 158's and 180's just fine, I have never tried 125's in it and have never bothered to take it deer hunting.
the 44 mag's, 45 colts, and even the 44-40 have all been along on several hunts.
littlegirl even remarked yesterday as to which one I would be taking this year on our pack-in hunt.

[Blammer]

go with the 357 180WFN with the scope.

[357shooter]

I've had great accuracy results with the Lee 125 w/5.2 grains of HP38. A custom 145 with 14.5 grains of 2400 or 5.0 grains of Red Dot. Also a 170 grain Keith with 13.5 grains of W296. That could load a bit hotter. I've only tried a few of the 180's so far and didn't have great results right off the bat. I chalked that up to lack of load development on my part. It's actually shorter than the Keith so you'd think it worked, the 180 would too.

[357shooter]

Think I'll cast up some 180's and see if I can work out a load. That is a lot of fun, since a new range opened up 2 miles from my front door! It's only 25 yards, but it provides a good indicator, bad results at 25 don't get better at 100!

[A pause for the COZ]

the newer taurossi's do seem to suffer from taurusitis.
they changed the twist on some of their leverguns and bore diameters seem to suffer the same fate.
my older 357 handles 158's and 180's just fine, I have never tried 125's in it and have never bothered to take it deer hunting.
the 44 mag's, 45 colts, and even the 44-40 have all been along on several hunts.
littlegirl even remarked yesterday as to which one I would be taking this year on our pack-in hunt.
I have no idea what would have possessed them to think a 1 in 30 twist rate was preferable to the standard 1 in 16 twist every one else uses.
Maybe to save money? Maybe they thought us red neck plinkers would never know the difference.? At 125 gr this gun is the Bomb. I love going against my buddy. Sticking 20 clays out at 150 yards and the 1st one to ten wins. I have yet to loose.
Put a 180 in there and I get a side ways bullet silhouette at 100 yards.

[TXGunNut]

Take them both, hunt with whichever one strikes your fancy at the time. A backup rifle is never a bad idea. Both will do the job if you do yours.
What do you think of that Marble sight, is it the ghost ring sight that replaces the factory rear sight?

[Lonegun1894]

Personally, I LOVE that they went with a 1:30 ROT in the Rossi 92s. My 20" .357 shoots 158s great, and keeps them stable to at least 500yds. Now it took some creative shooting (holding over and into the wind) to get any hits at 500, and I have no intention to use this gun at those kinds of ranges, but it is nice to know that stability is not something I have to worry about. I also use cast only in it, and the slow twist allows me to use softer lead for better expansion without getting any leading whatsoever, so this is another advantage. I'm talking plain base soft cast 158gr bullets at 1750fps with no leading issues at all. I also have a Winchester 94 in .357, and the leading starts at 1275fps in it if I use the same alloy I use in my Rossi. A almost 500fps gain just thanks to the slower twist is a HUGE advantage in my book. It is one reason that I have thought of selling the Winchester and using the money for another Rossi at times. Don't get me wrong, I like the Winchester, but it gets mostly .38 Spl loads because it just isn't nearly as forgiving toward alloy as the Rossi is. I get the same exact difference in performance between my Rossi .45 and my Winchester .45 also. Need to add a .44 to the stable someday...

[starmac]

I have no idea what would have possessed them to think a 1 in 30 twist rate was preferable to the standard 1 in 16 twist every one else uses.
Maybe to save money? Maybe they thought us red neck plinkers would never know the difference.? At 125 gr this gun is the Bomb. I love going against my buddy. Sticking 20 clays out at 150 yards and the 1st one to ten wins. I have yet to loose.
Put a 180 in there and I get a side ways bullet silhouette at 100 yards.

I have never owned or even had the hankering for a 357 rifle, but I suspect they are designed more for a target market than a hunters market.

[Lonegun1894]

Starmac,
I would bet that you're absolutely correct about a .357 rifle being a limited use item up in Alaska considering the size of animals you have to contend with, but speaking from the point of view of a Texan, where most whitetail deer are between 125-150#s for a does and 150-175# for most bucks, and a 200-225# buck is pretty big in my area, the .357 Mag rifle is plenty, and I could make an argument for it being perfect for my needs. Most of the hogs I have taken have been in the 150-225# range, with the occasional 300+ # hog and a lot of small ones that I usually let go so I can get more meat off them later. I also tend to hunt close and don't try the long shots anymore because it started to feel more like shopping than hunting for me due to taking deer and hogs with bows in the archery season, and then dragging out a heavy barreled .308 bolt gun and taking them at long range in the rifle season for a few years. Started feeling somewhat silly, as you can imagine. This is opposed to your moose, which I think could be taken with a .357, but would be more like bowhunting as far as range goes and a border-line stunt where the caliber is concerned, than gun hunting, and of course grizzly, which I don't think I would attempt with a .357 unless it was me or the bear, and even then I wouldn't be surprised if the bear died of laughter instead of a bullet. I have .45s also, and I bet they would be much better in your area than the .357s, but the .357s work in the South if you hunt within the calibers limitation. Basically, with easily 90%, if not more like 95%, of my game being 250#s or less, and stalked to within usually 125yds, and often more like 25-50yds, the .357 is a very capable rifle. Now if I was still hunting like I used to when I first started, back when I could hit it if I could see it, I wouldn't have a use for the .357, and would opt for nothing that doesn't shoot at least as far and as flat as a .308/.30-06 class rifle, but ever since I learned to hunt instead of just shoot, the handgun caliber leverguns have worked perfectly fine.

[357shooter]

Take them both, hunt with whichever one strikes your fancy at the time. A backup rifle is never a bad idea. Both will do the job if you do yours.
What do you think of that Marble sight, is it the ghost ring sight that replaces the factory rear sight?That's the sight! They claim its good for new shooters, but I like it a lot for the vision it provides. My eye really does center the front fiber optic naturally too. Just don't overthink it.

83891

[44minimum]

If I was making the choice, I would probably go for the 357 with 180 grain loads. But either one of them will work, and probably work pretty well. The main question is, which one do you shoot best? Which one are you more accurate with at deer hunting ranges?

[starmac]

Lone gun I am from Texas. What I was saying is that the 357 and other modern pistol calibers were marketed to the cowboy type target shooters instead of to hunters. I have no doubt about the capabilities of them, and I do own a 45, but to me it is not something I will be taking to the woods. I don't think if they were depending on the hunters market they would have sold enough of them to have become as popular as they did.

[TCLouis]

So the 358156 could well be a boolit of choice then?

My search for a 20" has been a failure so far.

Dealer did find a saddle ring model but I did not want to modify a new gun first thing.

[starmac]

What am I missing. If the OP has both and loads and shoots both why is everybody pushing to use the 357?

[wvmedic]

The 357 will do fine, my Wife took her first deer with my 92 in 357. It was a large doe shot her close range straight on between the right shoulder and brisket. Took out both lungs, heart and liver. She was useing my Hornady 158gr load over 13 gr of H110.

the 180's I've loaded did okay, the 158's are much better. As was said the 1:30 twistreally hurts the heaver bullets.

how did you mount your scope? I just bought the Wife a 77/357 so I could scope it easy, I figure we will use the 92's for fun shooting and the 77/357 for hunting. Depending on how well it shoots, I might get me a 77/44.

Just to add a little, with the 357 keep your shots at a reasonable distance and you will be fine. Also shot placement is paramount, that is with any round though.

good luck.

Jeff

[357shooter]

Thanks for the info. The round barrel Rossi's come drilled and tappped underneath the iron sights, and Rossi makes a weaver mount to fit the taper of the barrel. It all works with some pistol scopes and scout scopes depending on the eye relief.

[wvmedic]

Thanks 357shooter. I had contemplated a scout mount, read a lot of bad info on them working loose and such. So I stuck to peep sights.

[OnHoPr]

The 454 will provide more surface area initial thumpum deeper driving and only a slightly larger tunnel wound than the 357 even out to reasonable extended ranges.

[Blammer]

What am I missing. If the OP has both and loads and shoots both why is everybody pushing to use the 357?

because the 357 has a scope on it.

[dnepr]

I took a good sized northwestern Ontario buck today with my Rossi 357 , I was using Sierra 158 gr J-words , they did the job but left a little to be desired on the penetration end , shot it in the neck just in front of the front shoulder , the spine stopped the bullet, DRT but I would have liked to see a pass through

[helice]

This has been an interesting series of posts. I too have struggled with sight picture due to "old eye syndrome." I mounted a scout scope on a 30-30 trapper, for which I have developed a sincere fondness. This "improved" sight might tip the balance toward the .357 if one is unable to get a clear picture with the very interesting open sight shown above. Penetration is typically a function of boolit weight which is usually a function of caliber. Since the Rossi .357 rifles tend to struggle with the heavier boolits the 45 caliber 300 grain begins to look more suitable.
I have an RCBS 300 grain SWC-GC that I have pushed to 1550 foot seconds with stellar accuracy using H-110 in a 45 Colt LSI Puma. I have also pushed the 250 XTP (J-word) over 1750 foot seconds using Lil Gun at a full grain less than max load. These loads will flatten your trajectory a bit without stressing your 454. The heavier boolit would also up the ante on penetration.
I like the idea of bringing both rifles with you. My first choice would be the .357 due only to my old eyes and not due to the caliber. I would want at least a soft Ray Thompson 358156 or a heavier Keith 358429 if it would stabilize. The Lee 158 RF would also suffice. If I had younger eyes the .357 would stay in the Expedition and the 454 would come with me. Isn't it nice to have the problem of questioning, "Which gun do I use?"

[LeftyDon]

I have never owned or even had the hankering for a 357 rifle, but I suspect they are designed more for a target market than a hunters market.

A CT friend has a .357 Rossi and he's taken more deer with it than with all of his bolt action guns combined.

[Ramjet-SS]

It seems you have answered your own question with the statement that you have done allot of shooting with the Lee and the 454 that gun is part of you and probably the most accurate in your hands.

I have hunted whitetail with 357 heavy WFN is the best choice if you decide to use it.

Me 454 I have shot deer with that same bullet from a 45 LC at 1300 FPS that bullet will run stem to stern on any whitetail and you can eat right up to the hole.

[dnepr]

I found the bullet while butchering my buck , it did make it through the spine into the meat on the other side , I thought the spine had stopped the bullet , but it did better than I thought , a little more impressed with the 357 now , what is left is flat like a pancake but it did go all the way through the spine at the base of the neck on a good sized Northwestern Ontario Buck

[badguybuster]

Ive shot WV whitetail with 180 grain cast performance 357's and never had a problem. I was always told to have muzzle energy twice the weight of the target animal.

[DougGuy]

Hi guys,

According to Quickload the 300 grain Lee, with it's large meplat, should be around 1,300fps. I've read the a 300 grain bullet at 1,300fps is a pretty good load for a lot of game. Or do I need increase to 18-19 grains?

Thanks for the advice. I'm looking forward to having some venison in the freezer! Just gotta go find some deer... :bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:

Working with that same boolit in .45 Colt, I found the best accuracy from a short barreled vaquero came with 18gr 2400. Since mine is a fixed sight revolver, I made up some loads using 19gr, 18gr, 17gr, and 16gr trying to adjust point of impact to the top of the front sight blade. 18.0gr was the best shooting load, 17.0 got closest to the front sight but when I got to the 16.0gr loads, groups opened up considerably. This is with the boolit seated in the bottom crimp groove in .45 Colt brass.

I am assuming you are seating and crimping in the top groove? How does it shoot? Does it group well? Have you tried loads using 17.0gr or 18.0gr 2400? I would take the rifle that shoots the most accurately because no matter how much thump your boolit has, shot placement is still the most important factor.

If they both shoot equally well, take the big bore.

[357shooter]

Working with that same boolit in .45 Colt, I found the best accuracy from a short barreled vaquero came with 18gr 2400. Since mine is a fixed sight revolver, I made up some loads using 19gr, 18gr, 17gr, and 16gr trying to adjust point of impact to the top of the front sight blade. 18.0gr was the best shooting load, 17.0 got closest to the front sight but when I got to the 16.0gr loads, groups opened up considerably. This is with the boolit seated in the bottom crimp groove in .45 Colt brass.

I am assuming you are seating and crimping in the top groove? How does it shoot? Does it group well? Have you tried loads using 17.0gr or 18.0gr 2400? I would take the rifle that shoots the most accurately because no matter how much thump your boolit has, shot placement is still the most important factor.

If they both shoot equally well, take the big bore.I crimp in the top groove. It won't feed reliably in my Rossi crimped in the bottom. The meaplat is just too wide. The 16 grain load is extremely accurate. I haven't had a chance to try many other 2400 loads, I just cannot find it anywhere and have run out. I did try 10 grains of Red Dot and that was very accurate.

I just found a 8lb jug of Red Dot so I jumped on it. Tired of searching for a lb here and a lb there. I have a great load for the 357 with Red Dot, plan to try it in my 380 too. 8 grains of Red Dot shoot well in my 22-250 too.