Which process should I use? Hi Tek go Powder coat?

[mugsie]

I just "discovered" the alternate methods of lubing bullets this evening. Either the Hi-Tek coating or the Harbor Freight powder coating method. Previously, I was using the Lyman lubrisizer. I tried searching through the forums and there's a horrendous amount of information on coating boolets. One post has 74 different pages!

Is there a consensus on which method is best? Something in a few paragraphs? I'm casting, at the moment, only handgun calibers, all of course without GCs.

This "new" method is going to renew my efforts in casting again. The wax lubes, quite honestly, we're a PITA to do, very sloppy. This seams so much easier and cleaner on my barrels.

Thanks for any help you may be able to give me.

[Love Life]

HI-TEK. It's purpose made for the application, and works very well.

In all calibers I use it for I get the following benefits:
No leading (didn't get leading with wax lubes so that's a was)
Clean fingers
Clean dies
Clean cases and bullet noses
No lube build up on hands and firearms
No smoke while shooting

Just plain old goodness. I tried the powder coat (TES method) swirling the powder around, and the HI-TEK is just easier for me. People say the TES powder coat method is cheaper, but by the time you buy a couple colors of powder it is not.

HI-TEK ran me about $70 to get a 1 liter kit to my door. That liter is still more than half full, ad I have coated enough boolits to last me a long time. A very long time.

That is why I prefer the H-TEK over the TES powder coat method. Just understand that you will probably mess up the 1st couple tries so for your first couple batches don't coat 20 lbs of 358429 bullets......

[dverna]

Here is my opinion.

Hi-Tek has proven itself on pistol bullets and it seems a lot easier than PC. I am just starting to see some work on rifle bullets but it seems that though there is no leading - there is no accuracy either.

PC is more of a pain but it seems to do a better job on rifle bullets with some users reporting decent accuracy.

I have a Star, and see no driver to move to Hi-Tek for pistol bullets, as I can process over 1000 bullets/hr with it. Others will disagree.

I have followed the 74 page thread and most of the other threads and the above are my conclusions. The good news is that there is still a lot of development work going on so I expect further improvements and refinements using these different coating processes.

I am lazy, and have something that works well enough for me. But I think these coatings may be the answer for high velocity rifle bullets. If you want to get rid of your Lyman sizer I would be interested in it.

Don Verna

[Love Life]

Yeah, I got no leading in the 8mm, but I was over 2 inches at 100 yards. Gotta get back to the drawing board.

[popper]

For pistol, I'd go with HiTek. It's good at low speed rifle also. You need an oven, which is needed for PC. Love life didn't add, indefinite storage, don't need to wash hands after handling, non-allergenic. Lots go good, not much bad and IT'S FUN!

[mugsie]

Thanks guys, it seems the Hi Tek is quickly becoming a winner. I'll pick up a kit and give it a try. As I said, at the moment it's only for all caliber pistol bullets. Just to make sure, I cast, size, the coat? This the correct sequence? Trying this has rekindled my love for casting.
Thanks again.

[Maximumbob54]

I have yet to order a kit of Hi Tek but I'm no longer sure I will bother. Having tried Klass Kote epoxy paint tumbled, Powder By The Pound, and Harbor Freight gloss red and matte black I have settled on the HF matte black as being too easy and cheap to use. The KK worked but was more of a mess. $20 - $25 will get you a brand new cheap toaster oven, whatever a gallon more or less costs you for lacquer thinner, a small $2-$4 paint mixing bucket, a small $5 roll of hardware cloth, and a $5 pound of HF matte black and you are set for thousands of coated boolits. I'm not sure you can coat boolits for less money. I won't make jab at Hi Tek having never tried it but the cost seems inflated when everything else can be done for less cost and you end up needing the same processing materials anyways.

[btroj]

I haven't made the jump yet but when I do it will be Hi-Tek for certain. I just need to place the order and go buy an oven.

Love Life assures me the bullets are clean and tidy!

[jmort]

Electrostatic powder coat seems to be best from what I have seen. I have read every thread on every method from stem to stern. You might want to do the same before you decide.

[TES]

The PC method is great for a hobby / shooter. After coating a few hundred in PC and now coating 35,000 with super coat (in one day)...super coat wins!

PC is messy as heck compared to SC.

Once you get it dialed in you will be pleased!

I posted the method for the way I coated with PC in the thread "HFPC piglet method"

Oh...Bob. Nobody has provided any data on PC as a lube. So nobody knows if it does anything bad or good to your barrel.

[jmort]

Please explain "super coat." I saw your posts, but as I recall, you were somewhat coy on the details. That might have been pre-testing. I'll poke around in the thread you mentioned again. Thanks

[TES]

Please explain "super coat." I saw your posts, but as I recall, you were somewhat coy on the details. That might have been pre-testing. I'll poke around in the thread you mentioned again. Thanks

I call HI-TEK coating Super Coat.

[jmort]

Just reviewed you last two posts. From your post this morning:

"5 level scoops of powder to 5 scoops of acetone."

Regardless, your "Drip-Coat" or whatever you decide to call it (You asked for name suggestions and that is mine) seems promising. Kind of like reverse liquid pan lubing, without the pan. Why not use lacquer thinner?

[popper]

Mugsie - cast, coat THEN size. Can't say H-T is a 'winner' but it works good. I PC also with the ES gun. You can get a half liter from Bayou to try. I've 3x coated ~ 1500 so far with just a few tablespoons of the H-T.
Nobody has provided any data on PC as a lube. So nobody knows if it does anything bad or good to your barrel. Been shooting PC for about a year, ~100 308 AR, 40 30/30, 100-200 40SW per range trip, usually once a month - no problems so far.

[Maximumbob54]

Why would PC be worse for your barrel than brass, copper, or steel?

[TES]

Just reviewed you last two posts. From your post this morning:

"5 level scoops of powder to 5 scoops of acetone."

Regardless, your "Drip-Coat" or whatever you decide to call it (You asked for name suggestions and that is mine) seems promising. Kind of like reverse liquid pan lubing, without the pan. Why not use lacquer thinner?

Give it a whirl..never tried it.

[TES]

Why would PC be worse for your barrel than brass, copper, or steel?

I don't know that it is or is not...I'm only saying that there is no data to support or not support PC.

[Maximumbob54]

I don't know that it is or is not...I'm only saying that there is no data to support or not support PC.

I look at barrel wear as a non issue as I'm not sure I could afford the volume of ammo it will take to wear one out. I've tried soaking the barrel from my 9mm and .40SW M&P's in both acetone and lacquer thinner trying to see if anything comes out and I get nothing on a patch. The one PC'ed boolit I did manage to recover was pretty mashed up. I'm an darn fool for not taking a pic of it and just tossing it into the melt next time but sometimes I just don't think. I could see on part of it wear the rifling left the usual marks and the coating did look worn but again I have no leading. All I know is it works and it's cheap.

[bangerjim]

The PC method is great for a hobby / shooter. After coating a few hundred in PC and now coating 35,000 with super coat (in one day)...super coat wins!

PC is messy as heck compared to SC.

Once you get it dialed in you will be pleased!

I posted the method for the way I coated with PC in the thread "HFPC piglet method"

Oh...Bob. Nobody has provided any data on PC as a lube. So nobody knows if it does anything bad or good to your barrel.

I thought most of us were in this as a hobby!

I coat 250+ slugs per 30 min with the ES PC gun from HF. I like the finish and ease as which it goes on. No leading, no residue, not extra smoke.

And I can literally drive down the street 2 miles and get a bottle of powder if I run low for $5.50!

My vote is for ES gun PC coating. Have had NO luck at all slopping anything on my boolits in liquid form. I have not tried the Hi-Tek stuff, but until I can buy it locally, I will not use it. I try to keep my money in my State.

bangerjim

[jmort]

I can't see how powder coat "paint" could be that hard on a barrel. Assuming it stays on, there is noting in it as hard/abrasive as copper:

"So what's in a powder coating?

There are six main ingredients that make up the recipe for powder coatings.

Resin is always present and comes in two types; polyester and epoxy.
Curing agents are added to bind the coating. For polyesters, primid curing agents are used. For epoxies, dicyandiamide curing agents are used. Hybrid curing agents are also occasionally used, which contain different quantities of the primid and dicyandiamide curing agents.
There are various additives that are often used with a wide range of properties. Some of these give the powder a matt effect and others create a hardened finish, for example.
Post additives prevent the powder from caking and are added when the powder is hard and broken into small chips.
Tint pigments are also added to the mix. There are two types; inorganic, which are generally pale and dull and organic, which are more brightly coloured.
Extenders (fillers) are added to reduce glossiness and supply the coating with extra durability.
The quantity of each ingredient differs depending on a number of factors.
The powder may be thermoplastic (becomes soft, remoldable and weldable when heat is added) or thermoset polymer (can not be welded or remolded when heated)."

http://www.akzonobel.com/powder/guide_to_powder_coatings/whats_in_a_powder_coating/

The Harbor Freight PC is Epoxy Resin Powder.

http://www.harborfreight.com/16-oz-powder-coat-paint-matte-black-93306.html

[TES]

I thought most of us were in this as a hobby!

I coat 250+ slugs per 30 min with the ES PC gun from HF. I like the finish and ease as which it goes on. No leading, no residue, not extra smoke.

And I can literally drive down the street 2 miles and get a bottle of powder if I run low for $5.50!

My vote is for ES gun PC coating. Have had NO luck at all slopping anything on my boolits in liquid form. I have not tried the Hi-Tek stuff, but until I can buy it locally, I will not use it. I try to keep my money in my State.

bangerjim

Well that's what I meant. I am going to sell these. I need faster production methods than PC can offer.

[xacex]

My vote is also for ES gun PC coating. With a simple jug set up for hollow-points, or gas check shanks, or just sprayed on boolits set of a cookie sheet with non-stick foil. Nice fast one coat application with no mess. I do over 100 in less than 20 minutes, and the PC can be picked up cheap at any HF. No waiting for something to come in stock from over the pond. Plus you can do a huge spectrum of colors!

[xacex]

Well that's what I meant. I am going to sell these. I need faster production methods than PC can offer.

All set up with your 07 FFL, and ITAR huh? Must be nice. Cost to much for me.

[Love Life]

Did I mention how clean the HI-TEK supercoat is? :bigsmyl2:

I tried both the HT and PC. The HI-TEK is better.

$30 toaster/convection oven (has to be a convection oven) from Wal-Mart with a 2 year warranty
1 liter kit of super coat
1 plastic foldgers coffe jug
1 can of acetone
Bug juice (drink brand) bottle for the mixture
Free drying racks from stuff I had in the garage

That is all that is needed. Cast you a whole mess of bullets, let them cool, hit with 1st coat, let dry, bake, hit with second coat, let dry, bake, done.

I cast all through the week and bake on the weekends. I have about 90 lbs of various coated bullets now. I just need to figure out what to do with all this leftover lube...

Oh, and I sold my lyman sizers. Happy!!

[jmort]

"Oh, and I sold my lyman sizers. Happy!!"

You tried PC with acetone/lacquer thinner (I assume) but not ES PC. Right now I'm not inclined to do the ES PC which seems to be the best option if one is willing to do the work. Trying the VHT. Will see what happens.

[TES]

All set up with your 07 FFL, and ITAR huh? Must be nice. Cost to much for me.

No just an 06 FFL and yes ITAR makes my ears burn. I'm not trading internationally yet I have to pay an International trade tax. It's BS all the way. Get this... I called and asked how to pay the "tax" and the person on the other end said " I'm not aware of any tax sir?" I said so I don't have to pay the ITAR tax? He said "oh...yes you have to pay the fee. Its not a tax!"

I'd like to stick an egg beater up that dudes **** and put a wild man on the crank.

[Love Life]

"Oh, and I sold my lyman sizers. Happy!!"

You tried PC with acetone/lacquer thinner (I assume) but not ES PC. Right now I'm not inclined to do the ES PC which seems to be the best option if one is willing to do the work. Trying the VHT. Will see what happens.

Building a jig to powder coat a limited number of bullets with a messy process is really not my idea of a good idea. Why would I take 2 steps back?

[fastglock]

ES PC HANDS DOWN

-one coat
-10 mins bake
-much more colors
-tougher
-choices of brand :HF, PowderByThePound, Eastwood, etc, etc
-choices of powder type: TGIC, Epoxy, Hybrid, high temp


even comparing HiTek vs PC Piglet , I'd go PC Piglet which is cheaper and faster

[xacex]

No just an 06 FFL and yes ITAR makes my ears burn. I'm not trading internationally yet I have to pay an International trade tax. It's BS all the way. Get this... I called and asked how to pay the "tax" and the person on the other end said " I'm not aware of any tax sir?" I said so I don't have to pay the ITAR tax? He said "oh...yes you have to pay the fee. Its not a tax!"

I'd like to stick an egg beater up that dudes **** and put a wild man on the crank.

Its the fee that gets ya. The FFL is not a problem for most, add some insurance, do an LLC, but that fee for ITAR when you are not even selling out of country is a scam.
For bulk production contact Federal. They had the Nyclad which they stopped selling that was basically what we are doing, but on a larger scale. Or, research for someone that worked there and get the run down. Someone has pictures of the equipment somewhere.

For ease of use I think your best bet is coating like Bayou . Hi tek in a cement mixer.

[fastglock]

Building a jig to powder coat a limited number of bullets with a messy process is really not my idea of a good idea. Why would I take 2 steps back?

The idea of building a jig is to take two huge steps forward. Its about getting awesome results. Awesome results is a byproduct of hard work. :bigsmyl2:

[TES]

Its the fee that gets ya. The FFL is not a problem for most, add some insurance, do an LLC, but that fee for ITAR when you are not even selling out of country is a scam.
For bulk production contact Federal. They had the Nyclad which they stopped selling that was basically what we are doing, but on a larger scale. Or, research for someone that worked there and get the run down. Someone has pictures of the equipment somewhere.

For ease of use I think your best bet is coating like Bayou . Hi tek in a cement mixer.

Compared to electroplating or swaging; Hi-TEK coating gives "us" the advantage when competing with bigger guys.

[Love Life]

The idea of building a jig is to take two huge steps forward. Its about getting awesome results. Awesome results is a byproduct of hard work. :bigsmyl2:

I get the same results from HI-TEK with way less work for shooting pistol.

I don't have the need or the urge to try to get jacketed performance with cast bullets, so I don't have the need or the urge to try to.

What do your ES PC coated pistol bullets do that my HI-TEK coated bullets don't?

[fastglock]

I get the same results from HI-TEK with way less work for shooting pistol.

I don't have the need or the urge to try to get jacketed performance with cast bullets, so I don't have the need or the urge to try to.

What do your ES PC coated pistol bullets do that my HI-TEK coated bullets don't?

It don't smell bad while shooting....








Joking aside, to really answer your question, probably nothing. But you are only asking pistol performance ONLY.

What about how it's processed?
Can you get HiTek anywhere?
Can you get easily anywhere?
Bake time?
Color choices?
Cost?
Availability ?

In my opinion ES PC results has no competitor. Yet.

Piglet PC vs HiTek is a good debate.....

PC Piglet method is still new. I get that there's many HiTek users at this time. Its just a matter time. I don't need to keep listing the Pros of PC Piglet or ES PC. It'll sell themselves .

[Love Life]

HI-TEK does not smell bad when you shoot it.

Yeah, lets see which is still standing years from now.

Just a show of hands from bullet sellers who use some kind of coating. Which coating process are you using on your mass amounts of boolits?


Back on track with the OP's question:
As you can see, there are a couple methods to use when coating your bullets. They have all been proven to work.

Pick the one which best suits you, roll with it, and have a blast!!

[angus6]

Very interested in the HI-TEK coating, any chance that I could work something out with one of you guys doing it to do 250 rifle bullets so I could try them before buying a mold and setting up to do it

[popper]

angus6 - I'd wait until HiTek is proven for rifle. PC does work for rifle.

[MacFan]

I look at barrel wear as a non issue as I'm not sure I could afford the volume of ammo it will take to wear one out. I've tried soaking the barrel from my 9mm and .40SW M&P's in both acetone and lacquer thinner trying to see if anything comes out and I get nothing on a patch. The one PC'ed boolit I did manage to recover was pretty mashed up. I'm an darn fool for not taking a pic of it and just tossing it into the melt next time but sometimes I just don't think. I could see on part of it wear the rifling left the usual marks and the coating did look worn but again I have no leading. All I know is it works and it's cheap.

Here's a pic of a recovered bullet I posted in another PC thread- http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?209151-Powder-Coating-101-Electrostatic-Method&p=2418154&viewfull=1#post2418154
It's PC for me.

[Maximumbob54]

Here's a pic of a recovered bullet I posted in another PC thread- http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?209151-Powder-Coating-101-Electrostatic-Method&p=2418154&viewfull=1#post2418154
It's PC for me.

Mine was misshapen but not that flat. But the coating was pretty much the same It was still sticking but had broken apart.

[Love Life]

Here are two 45 acp bullets coated with HI-TEK red/copper that smacked into my AR500 steel target.

Coating is still on them.

Bullet was the H&G 34 clone made by NOE. 230 gr RN.

[dverna]

Bangerjim makes an interesting point and most of us forget. We recommend all sorts of stuff based on what WE do and what works for US. 250 PC's bullets is a decent production rate for him and likely many others. But remember you still need to size so it is less than that.

I get at least twice that production rate using a Star and can lube and size in one operation.

So many of people looking for advice do not give enough information: such as production rate desired, and velocity requirements. We just assume what we use is the right answer for everyone because it is the right answer for us.

Lastly, for those looking for advice, ask yourself why you are getting "passionate" recommendations that are not consistent. Is one of the "gurus" wrong???? I see three answers:
They do not know what they are talking about , or
They have different needs that the other "guru", or
They are so enamored by their method they ignore a better way (not invented here syndrome)

But for sure it is a red flag as most of this stuff is not art but science. Also, beware of claims - especially accuracy. Lots of junk about "good accuracy" but almost no numbers, either with respect to groups size, at what range, number of shots in a group and number of groups shot. If you want blasting ammo for 7 yard pistol shooting or CAS, anything that does not lead will do. If your needs are more demanding it matters.

[Love Life]

If I were to cast and coat in one day you are looking at 2,000 rds per day over several hours from start to finish. Casting them first, coating to let dry, baking, coating to let dry, baking, then sizing.

Absolutely there is more involved. No smoke and mirrors here.

However; the process is exceptionally clean with no smoke. That is what I enjoy.

DVerna-We get it. You have a star sizer. You have mentioned that on many occasions. It is an expensive machine, and one should be proud to own one. I was, until I discovered how finicky it was and sold it on down the road. These threads are not about star sizers. These threads you keep mentioning your star sizer on are about using coatings instead of wax lube. There is a star sizer subforum. I had a star, couldn't sell it fast enough.

I will get some "numbers" posted for you this winter as I cruise back into shooting. What do you want to see? 25 yard pistol groups from a rest? 50 yd pistol groups from a rest?

Have you considered buying some coating (doesn't matter which brand or method) and contributing to the "numbers" you need/want?

[prickett]

I've tried Piglet, Klass Kote, and Hi-Tek. To me, the winner is...

any of them.

Really. I've found all 3 work equally as well. So, it all comes down to what you prefer.

Hi-Tek is good, all around. Nice appearance, fairly easy to apply. Now, there is a steady supply available (thanks to Bayou Bullets). Initial high cost, but that coats upward of 30,000 bullets, so the cost, long term, is not high.

Piglet has a number of people complaining about appearance. I don't have a problem getting a decent coating, personally. I guess I'm just lucky. Probably lowest cost per bullet of the three methods (assuming HF paint is used) as well as most accessible supply.

Klass Kote is one I'm still wrestling with. It is messiest of the three (the paint tends to end up on my hands, spoons, work area, down the side of the can). But, its advantage is that it doesn't require high heat like the others. So you can get a dirt cheap oven to use. And, its low heat doesn't undo your water dropping for hardness. Also, I pretty sure (I'm testing this weekend) that you can get by with a single coat of paint - whereas the other two methods require two coats.

Everything mentioned above applies to 9mm and .45 ACP boolits made from COWW.