My accidental discovery

[Saint]

I stumbled on a strange way to make really smooth roundballs. Maybe someone can find a use for this information but if not it is kind of interesting. I have had a small CCI primer tin in my saddlebag on my bike for close to 6 months with some hand cast .31 roundballs for my pocket derringer in it. I was cleaning out the bags and found the tin and it seems that they had been rolling around in the tin so much that they had been smoothed till the point that the sprues had nearly disappeared. Strangely enough however the balls were the same diameter as fresh cast ones when I measured them. I am going to test this on some of my larger rounds.

[Buckshot]

................Saint, don't believe I've had a chance to welcome you to the board, so welcome! Hey that's a great idea about those roundballs. I need a Harley, and I can tell the wife my trip to Colorado is to get my balls polished up. That orta fly :-)

Seriously though it IS a sound idea, and has been done. I've seen 2 of these gizmos. Both were shallow flat bottomed, straight walled containers made of steel or machined cast iron. You put the lead balls in with plenty of 'move around' space. A flat faced steel lid fits down inside the wall to rest on the balls, and this is rotated for sufficient time to swage down the sprue into the balls.

...............Buckshot

[randyrat]

Welcome Saint. I do beleive someone wrote about how they did this in the trunk of their car and let the round balls roll around for a week or so and they came out nice n round. Give them plenty of space to roll around.

[Charley]

You can also puit them in a tumbler for a few hours. Noisy but effective.

[750k2]

The key to the tumbler method is to make sure they form a single layer - otherwise
They will form flat spots:mrgreen:

[mtgrs737]

Don't the shot makers guys do something simialr with glass plates? I think I read somewhere that they "table" the shot to make it round.

[OLPDon]

Someone on the old shooter's Board used 2 Pieces of plywood and sandwiched 20 or so Rd Ball placed on floor while watching the TV and just placed his feet ontop of the uper ply and moved it around rolled them around and bingo no sprues. I would think 2 sheets of metal sheet would keep the ware down on the balls to keep size same no rub off.

But I like Buckshot's Idea better new "hog" for "polished balls" :holysheep
Buckshot keep us informed.

[Saint]

You can also puit them in a tumbler for a few hours. Noisy but effective.

Funny you should mention this. Right after a posted this thread this very thought crossed my mind and I pulled out an old ruck tumbler that had not been used in years and put a hand full of roundballs inside. Just got home from making money to give to the government and after 10 hours they look great. I need to get out to the range and see how they perform. I am into long range muzzleloader shooting so I usually can tell a noticeable difference between different types of roundball.

[OLPDon]

Funny you should mention this. Right after a posted this thread this very thought crossed my mind and I pulled out an old ruck tumbler that had not been used in years and put a hand full of roundballs inside. Just got home from making money to give to the government and after 10 hours they look great. I need to get out to the range and see how they perform. I am into long range muzzleloader shooting so I usually can tell a noticeable difference between different types of roundball.


Keep us informed. I also have a question what is considered long range for Muzzleloader round ball? And what kind of qroups do you get.

One more question. What would you consider effective range for hunting Deer ie with 54 cal rd ball?
Don

[joeb33050]

I stumbled on a strange way to make really smooth roundballs. Maybe someone can find a use for this information but if not it is kind of interesting. I have had a small CCI primer tin in my saddlebag on my bike for close to 6 months with some hand cast .31 roundballs for my pocket derringer in it. I was cleaning out the bags and found the tin and it seems that they had been rolling around in the tin so much that they had been smoothed till the point that the sprues had nearly disappeared. Strangely enough however the balls were the same diameter as fresh cast ones when I measured them. I am going to test this on some of my larger rounds.

May I use this post in the book?? And the posts by you others?
Thanks;
joe brennan

[ARKANSAS PACKRAT]

Saint; For years Warren Muzzloding,Ozone, Ar. cast commercially, they tumbled all the roundballs in an old cement mixer with the baffles removed, made the sprue flat. The balls had a slight pebbled texture, but shot fine.

[doc25]

I think with the pebbled texture they would shoot better. Isn't that the reasoning for dimpled golf balls?

[beagle]

I had a piece or phenolic (garolite) with about a 12" diameter circle cut in the middle that I picked up out of the scrap at work. I glued a solid piece to the bottom, added balls and then placed another solid square on top. I'd sit there and move my feet and one movie later, you had fairly smooth balls./beagle

[MakeMineA10mm]

Man, I was gettin' reeeeeeaaallll worried about y'all, until I went back, and re-read the posts and caught the word "sprue" and decided you were talking about cast lead balls.... (WHEW!) [smilie=s:

Then, I got to thinking back to what my mentor taught me. (We were loading .311" lead round balls as buckshot in 12ga reloads.) We put about a pint-size Planter's peanut can full of freshly cast lead RBs in his old Thumbler's Tumbler, and squirted a couple heavy squirts of graphite into it, and then sealed the lid and let it run for a day and half or so... Out came perfectly round shiney-black round balls. They loaded up into fine 0-Buckshot rounds.

I checked them every 8-12 hours, and I discovered about 16-20 hours into the tumbling that the balls' sprues had rounded-over but were still noticable. Looked like a lopsided, black, miniature hard-boiled egg... Continued tumbling got them done.

Anyone tried this with a vibratory, rather than a rotary tumbler?

[Saint]

I shoot open sight at 150 yards. Bench shooting on a good day I can do 12 inch groups. Honestly I don't know how good that is because there are not a lot of muzzleloaders at my range. I will say that I used to shoot my rifle at least twice a week and as odd as it may seem for someone who shoots that much I actually don't hunt. I have nothing against hunting but it is really not my cup of tea. I probably would go if I had someone in my family who was interested. If I ever had to shoot at a moving target I would be screwed. I am gonna get some pictures up here soon of the before and after of the rock tumbler method. I have always heard that the effective range of a muzzleloader is around 200 yards but there seems to be quite a bit of debate as to weather or not this can drop big game. Also I believe that that is with an inline muzzleloader shooting a sabot round. My favorite rifle is a .54 percussion sidelock with .530 RB and a .015 patch.

[Saint]

http://lh4.google.com/stokbr5/Ry7J5goffzI/AAAAAAAAABU/QOhoex19yZk/s144/Tumbled.JPG
These two were cast at the same time and started out with almost identical sprues. The right one tumbled in a musket cap tin suspended in a woodworking lathe for around 20 minutes. Obviously more time would have finished the sprue off completely but I decided not to let it finish so the sprue area would still be visible.

[Linstrum]

Hi, Saint, thanks for the photos of the balls you processed. I have thought about using uniformly dimpled balls to see if they carried farther than smooth balls, which, as already mentioned, is why golf balls have the dimples. Regardless of whether they are smooth or dimpled, though, having the sprue remnant removed would probably help in accuracy.

[GrizzLeeBear]

Keep us informed. I also have a question what is considered long range for Muzzleloader round ball? And what kind of qroups do you get.

One more question. What would you consider effective range for hunting Deer ie with 54 cal rd ball?
Don

I deer hunt with a .54 flintlock. A lot depends on the rifle and shooter, but my rifle on a bench will consistently shoot 2 - 3" groups at 100 yds. I sight it in to be about dead on at 75, so its about 1 1/2" high at 50 and about 2" low at 100. Inside 100 yds. bambi is toast.
I limit my shots to 100 yds. (usually shots are much closer) mainly because the roundball is really running out of steam past that. I could easily hit a deer at 150, but I think the terminal effects at that range are starting to get "iffy".

Personally, I think trying to make roundballs without the sprue is purely cosmetic. I load mine sprue up and after a couple good raps on the short starter the sprue is gone anyway.

[joeb33050]

May I use this post in the book?? And the posts by you others?
Thanks;
joe brennan

Well, may I?
joe b.

[klw]

In the back of the Pedersoli catelogue isn't there a gadget for doing this?

[Saint]

Hey joe. As far as my posts and pics, I don't think anybody could stop you, but I am always happy to share my info with anybody so please feel free.

[canuck4570]

In the back of the Pedersoli catelogue isn't there a gadget for doing this?
I have one and it work great for my 54 round ball.....

[mastercast.com]

The really quick way to remove the sprue cutoff from round balls is to use a vibratory case cleaner. I use the large Dillon vibratory case cleaners to do it. Twenty to forty minutes...depends on the size of the balls..smaller takes longer than the really large ones such as .730.

One of the biggest reasons to use round balls that have had the sprue cutoff removed is to keep from sticking a RB when you are loading in a real hurry. The guys in my neck of the woods run competitions that they call "Trail Runs." They shoot at various targets as they run a course over a specified distance. The fastest time with all hits wins. If you happen to try load a RB oriented such that the sprue cutoff is lined up with the rifling in the barrel, it will stick tighter than a tick, and you are out of business until you can pull that RB. Don't think you would do that under the clock? I have seen it happen numerous times until I started feeding those guys RBs with the sprue cutoff removed. I have even seen those guys get in such a hurry that they shot their ramrods down range....not much I can do about that.(I have always wondered what the ballistic coefficient of a ramrod might be.)

[whisler]

The BC of a ramrod depends on whether there is a jag on the end or not, and, if so, the caliber of the jag. Don't ask me how I know[smilie=1:

[Saint]

That is the biggest benefit for me as well. I post on a muzzleloader forum and people keep arguing that the sprue makes no difference for accuracy, and they are probably right, but when you load a cap & ball revolver it can be a pain to keep the sprue facing up. Ease of loading is the biggest benefit for me. I don't hunt but I would imagine that this could mean precious seconds when reloading if you miss your target.

[OLPDon]

I deer hunt with a .54 flintlock. A lot depends on the rifle and shooter, but my rifle on a bench will consistently shoot 2 - 3" groups at 100 yds. I sight it in to be about dead on at 75, so its about 1 1/2" high at 50 and about 2" low at 100. Inside 100 yds. bambi is toast.
I limit my shots to 100 yds. (usually shots are much closer) mainly because the roundball is really running out of steam past that. I could easily hit a deer at 150, but I think the terminal effects at that range are starting to get "iffy".

Personally, I think trying to make roundballs without the sprue is purely cosmetic. I load mine sprue up and after a couple good raps on the short starter the sprue is gone anyway.

Grizz:

I have to agree with you. Before I started looking at the chat Boards Shooter and now Cast Boolits, I went to local public shooting range with my 54 front stuffer at about 75 yrds. (what I feel would be as far as I would want to reach out. Worked up my load not so much as vol. but how close I could put those balls to each other. And I was more then impressed how the patch and ball would perfforme. Sprues always up! I kinda always knew that aft of the projectile seemed to make more of a diferance. I felt that the ram rod surly being concaved rounded off the ball anyway.

Now after taking my share of Bambi all sorts of shots whithin 75 yrs. went though and though (front, quartering. broadside, like a hot knife though butter. I have only recoverd one ball and it just about inverted itself. I was quite impressed with the 54. Its ability to perform is more then I expected from just 220 grs of soft lead.

When I see what the Round ball will do I think of what faced the men and boys of the American Civil War..................
Don

[randyrat]

Well, may I?
joe b.You have my permision at least for my simple post.

[Newtire]

A long time ago, someone sold a "ball roller" and they made it here locally. It was a flat plate and a grooved flat plate and you would put the balls in between the plates into the groove and tighten them loosely together and rotate one of the plates with a crank handle. Don't know how it worked as I never bought one but the guy who sold it showed us the results and they looked like store bought Hornady round balls.

[Saint]

A long time ago, someone sold a "ball roller" and they made it here locally. It was a flat plate and a grooved flat plate and you would put the balls in between the plates into the groove and tighten them loosely together and rotate one of the plates with a crank handle. Don't know how it worked as I never bought one but the guy who sold it showed us the results and they looked like store bought Hornady round balls.

I can testify to that. I find that if I tumble my balls until the sprue is gone and compare them with store bought balls there is virtually no difference. I am still playing around with this since I learned of it but so far the cleanest rounds that I am getting come from mounting a CCI musket cap tin in a woodworking lathe and just letting it spin for 20 minutes. Unfortunately this only seems to work if I run one ball at a time but the lathe I use is actually a miniature one from harbor freight so I just put it next to the TV and watch some movies while I polish my balls. The rock tumbler worked great but they came out looking like golf balls. Dunno if that really matters but I still have not been able to compare, but at least the sprue is gone as is the pain in making sure to load sprue up.

[whisler]

I have heard that the trick to getting away from the golf ball look is to tumble differing caliber balls together. Never tried it but based on particle packing theory it should work fine, especially if there is a large difference in calibers and several calibers are used at once.

[webfoot10]

Hi Saint, I was reading your post about taking the spue off RB's to make them round. I have a
simple method that anyone here can use. I took a 6 inch square of 3/8 steel plate and polished it smooth, I took a bearing race from a boat trailer hub and brazed it to the center
of the polished plate. Be sure to use a smooth race as a rusted one will tear up the soft lead balls. Get a chevrolet 202 intake valve with the flat head surface if possable, but a cupped
head will work, cut the valve stem off to leave a 3 in stem. Chuck in your drill press and polish the valve head face with wet or dry sandpaper. To use set the plate with the bearing race
attached on your drill press plate, Bring that plate up to about three in from the valve face
that you have in the drill chuck. Set your drill press on it's lowest speed, put in three RB's in the
bearing race , and bring the spinning valve down on top of the RB's DO NOT use to much pressure , you only want to get them spinning around in the bearing race. The light pressure
from the valve pressing on the spinning RB's will roll the spue into the soft lead, the lead will flow into perfect RB's Once you get the hang of it they will look like a swaged ball. This method seems to take out any voids in the lead by compression. Try this mud ball method
I think you will like the results. Webfoot

[Lucky Joe]

A canister rigged up on the wheel of a riding lawn mower will get you the same thing.

Interesting thing is great minds think alike but not alike. Good ideas all, same results different ways to get the job done.

joeb33050 - I don't care if you use my post.