Lee Precision not so Precise

[pearcetopher]

Hi guys, I have a sizing issue I'm not sure is my fault or not

I have three molds, a .309 and a .429 and a .401
Most bullets drop at exactly the diameter they are supposed to be

When I run the .309 through the .309 sizer it comes out at .306 and has terrible accuracy
When I run the .429 through the .430 sizer it comes out as .427 and has so so accuracy

I cant understand why the lee sizers would size down so much. Yes they are clean with no wax or leading.

Whats going on here?

also my rifle barrel slugs at .307 which sounds about right so I am sure it is not my measuring device.

[jmort]

It is always a good idea to check the sizing die and open it up to the size you want. Try shooting as cast in the mean time.

[Gtek]

Do you know anyone with a set of pin gauges? If they are off, there is a fellow on here (Buckshot) that a lot of people have used and the end result was a lot of happy people. They are what they are, right or wrong on dimension. Sometimes different alloys will size different, these are things you will need to discover on your end. Gtek

[Love Life]

I have been casting for a couple years now. I have ordered about 10 Lee sizing dies. Not a single one of them has sized to the diameter imprinted into the die. Not one!!! They have all sized .001 below, and I have opened them all up.

While I do appreciate the learning experience, I really wish Lee would do a better job of producing their sizing dies.

The rest of their stuff is good to go.

[frkelly74]

While you are polishing your dies to the correct diameter you are also giving them a better interior finish that they came with. Most of mine have been really close on diameter but some start out really rough. They were inexpensive and fixable, and I can make them the size I want.

[Love Life]

Oops. Sorry. Forgot to post a solution. I feel I have become a pro at this...

If way off start with some 320 grit wrapped around a dowel. Ram it in the die, twirl, clean it out, size a boolit, repeat. When you get close to your diameter move up to 600 grit, repeat the already mentioned steps. If you have a micrometer, once you are real close, switch to 1000 grit to final finish and polish the interior of the die.

It sounds like a lot, but is really only about 20 minutes of work.

[dromia]

Send them back to Lee and demand they provide you with a product that works as they have advertised.

[35remington]

You don't have to size them. Problem solved!

Unless you use gas checks with the 30, as then the problem is how to crimp them on.

[WILCO]

Hi guys, I have a sizing issue I'm not sure is my fault or not....


Hi Pearcetopher!

What are you using to measure the sized boolits and barrel slug with?

[runfiverun]

Send them back to Lee and demand they provide you with a product that works as they have advertised.

this is the solution that SHOULD work.
seems like more and more reloading stuff is "close nuff"

[prs]

If they drop at correct size, do not "size them.

Measure with micrometer, not caliper.

prs

[John Boy]

Not a single one of them has sized to the diameter imprinted into the die. Not one!!! They have all sized .001 below, Ditto

[Maximumbob54]

How old are these dies? I've found that when I would have sworn up and down I had zero leading in mine I pushed a PC'ed boolit through and bam out came some leading stuck on the PC.

[mdi]

I guess I'm the odd man out! I have 6 Lee push through sizing dies and not one has been out of spec., all within .001" of stated size. I have customized a couple, honing the ID out .002" or .003" for my .44 lever gun and .45 handguns. BTW; I don't try to measure the ID of the die, just the finished bullet..

[Doc_Stihl]

It sounds to me like your measuring device isn't accurate.
When you measure a jacketed bullet with your micrometer, do they accurately read what the bullet should be?

[Love Life]

Within .001 of the stated diameter is unacceptable. When I buy a bullet sizing die, it needs to size to the diameter stated. Not smaller or larger by .001. That makes them worthless.

The ones that size smaller are good to go because I can open them up.

I measure the sized bullet using micrometers.

Back to the OP. What method are you using to slug and what measureing device are you using?

[prs]

I guess I'm the odd man out! I have 6 Lee push through sizing dies and not one has been out of spec., all within .001" of stated size. I have customized a couple, honing the ID out .002" or .003" for my .44 lever gun and .45 handguns. BTW; I don't try to measure the ID of the die, just the finished bullet..

Nope, I have 4 of the Lee size kits and all are pretty spot on with my alloy. Dead soft lead may size smaller as it does not have the "memory" that pb/sn/sb alloy does. Also, agree with the fellow member advising to measure the sized boolit, not the cavity of the die. The die will be slightly smaller.

prs

[jmort]

Even if you get a new one at .309" or .430" you might still want it a little larger or smaller, depending on what you need. I think "customizing" a sizing die makes sense. If you are good at .309, which it sounds like you would be, then send it back to Lee Precision and they will make it right.

"When I run the .429 through the .430 sizer" it should be a waste of time as it should not size at all if you wrote what you intended to write.

[detox]

Use a micrometer to measure. Some alloys will spring back slightly larger than sizing die diameter.

Work in steps and use 600 grit paper wrapped around wood dowel and electric drill to enlarge sizing die. It does not take much to ruin the die.

[detox]

BTW my .3570" pin gauge has a "snug slip fit" inside my .357 Lee sizer. So my .357 die is exactly .357. Lyman #2 Alloy will spring back almost to .3580" after sizing in this .357 die.

I size nose first in the .357 Lee sizer. Then i lube base first in the .357 RCBS Lubrisizer.

[Love Life]

Did you call Lee precision yet?

[detox]

Operator error 90% of the time

[Love Life]

Ummmm.....No, Detox, it is not. Lee sells undersized dies. Have for years. They size undersize with PB, COWW, COWW+tin, and even Lino. Gasp.

Let us not derail this. The solution to the op is simple. Either call Lee or open them up.

[blikseme300]

I don't mind that the Lee sizer dies are sometimes under sized as they are easy to open up and polish. The price of these tools will go up if Lee does more work to them.

[mdi]

"Within .001 inch" means just that; less than .001" away from what is stamped on the side of the die. Of the Lee push through dies I use, one or two are dead nuts, a couple others are .0005" off, and that is acceptable for any mass produced, vs. custom machined, product. If I needed to hold .0005" +- 0.00" bullet diameter, I'd certainly go crazy trying, after having spent big $$$$ on extra precise measuring equipment/tools...

Normal alloy characteristics will have more "spring back" or "pressure/galling reductions" than 1/2 a thousandths of an inch.

[Garyshome]

Great info here! With all you guys around here I don't have to do any thinking! Just steal everyone eases ideas!

[MtGun44]

You using a .0001" micrometer to measure? Are you experienced at accurate measurement,
especially of soft materials? Tools and technique are important in this work.

Bill

[pearcetopher]

hi guys sorry about the late reply

I have had nothing but trouble with andy lee from lee precision

Last Year I bought the Lee Progressive loader for like 359$ (not the 1000) and right out of the box the case advancing adjusting large bolt had been cross threaded onto the press. Being Aluminum framed it can not be properly re threaded without using Heli Coils and its such a pain in the *** to do i emailed titan reloading who forwarded it on to andy and it was the same old story pls sent it back for inspection and buyer is responsible for shipping.

I was upset and I'm not paying 50$ for return shipping that will not get refunded, and for 29$ I bought the heli coil kit and fixed it properly with a whole lot of swearing.

Now that I am having issues with sizing dies that are not the right size and a round ball mold where someone obviously fell asleep on the CNC machine because the two blocks round ball in the center does not line up producing what looks like two ball halves that were mashed together. Ive realized the whole save money by using lee precision may not have been a good idea to start with reloading but it was worth giving a shot due to its affordability.

I talked to my dad who is a tough old fart and he tells me I'm an idiot for using anything lee precision and I have to say yes I do agree with him.

Also now that WW lead sources in my area are drying up I am honestly considering switching to jacketed bullets.

I would only be able to go to the range twice a month shooting jacketed vs twice a week with lead

I know this sounds like a real sob story but it seems I cant win with this whole bullet casting thing. I am not looking for pity but does anyone else ever think like me?

I mean when Shelly from Lee Precision puts her Quality Control sticker on the fininshed mold I tend to believe she didn't even look at it and what kind of service is that

[Love Life]

It is weird. The only issues I've ever had with any Lee equipment are their sizer dies.

Not from user error. Lee sizing dies are tubes of steel, and you can't user error that. Now if they were flux capacitors then possibly...

Anywho, you might be better off buying used RCBS moulds. Or sell all your casting equipment and get you some jacketed bullets. They are back on the market and prices are legit.

[jmort]

Lee Precision is not for everyone, but I'm a Lee Precision Fan Boy. Only problem I ever had, they made it right. Customer service is excellent. I know others completely disagree. As for progressives, I would go with Dillon, I wish Lee Precision stropped making progressives or that they had a warning label that only fellows with mechanical skills and who like to tinker should get them. In that case, the Lee Precision Progressives are a great deal. BTW, the correct name for Dillon is Dillon Precision, no doubt a dig or homage or both, to Lee Precision. They do share patents.

[cainttype]

As with most things from well-established namebrands, you generally get what you pay for. Whether automobiles or reloading equipment, quality control and finished products usually reflect the purchase price.
The outfits asking too much for the products they supply don't stay in business long. There's no mystery as to how LEE remains in business, just as there's no mystery why custom manufacturers supplying group buys here often have long waiting lists for products costing substantially more.

[ukrifleman]

You don't have to size them. Problem solved!

Unless you use gas checks with the 30, as then the problem is how to crimp them on.

+1! If they cast the correct diameter don't size. I use the Lee `Cruise Missile`bullet, cut down to 150gn in my M91 Carcano and load it as cast.
I fix the gas checks with a drop of Lok-Tite then apply 2 coats of Alox.
I have found that this method works well if the bullet seats within the case neck and does not protrude below into the case, otherwise the gas check can be torn off as it enters the neck from below.
ukrifleman.

[Dave L]

I agree with your father completely! Lee stuff is cheep junk. I've been loading for 40+ years and everything Lee I've tried to use doesn't even come close to the quality of the real stuff like Lyman, RCBS, Dillon or even the old Herters stuff. With the exception of maybe the Lee hand primer, but I've broken one of those too. You get what you pay for. Inexpensive = junk in most things. JMHO

[mckenziedrums]

Ah a Lee bashing thread...

Ya know.. people wouldn't be able to comment on how good customer service at Dillon, RCBS, Lyman, etc is if nothing from those companies was ever out of spec or broken ;)

As has been said, if you're getting the diameter you need out of the mold you don't need to run them through the dies. I'm a casting newb and I decided to pony up for a Lyman sizer/luber instead of messing with the Lee dies and so far I've been happy I made that decision. Now, my reloading bench includes a Lee turret that I love and I've got a number of Lee molds that cast out beautiful boolits even for a novice like me. Believe I spent $30 on my 6 cavity 255gr mold for the 45 colt and it works GREAT.

You have the solutions already... you can use them as cast, polish out your sizing dies, or get them replaced. I will say that typically the attitude with which you approach a customer service situation will typically determine your happiness with the resolution. Something to keep in mind!

[DeanWinchester]

Allof mine have been unsized too and I for one praise Lee for it. You can always make a hole bigger but it is hell trying to make it smaller.
I appreciate being able to lap the die open to the size I want. All of my guns shoot best when sized over what they sell a die for anyway. I ordered a .309 so I could make a .310-.3105, my .311 was opened up to .312. My .358 to .360. And so on and so forth.

To me it's just part of the job as a hand loader to custom fit everything to suit my needs. I suppose that's whst separates the hand loaders from reloaders.

[Char-Gar]

Hi guys, I have a sizing issue I'm not sure is my fault or not

I have three molds, a .309 and a .429 and a .401
Most bullets drop at exactly the diameter they are supposed to be

When I run the .309 through the .309 sizer it comes out at .306 and has terrible accuracy
When I run the .429 through the .430 sizer it comes out as .427 and has so so accuracy

I cant understand why the lee sizers would size down so much. Yes they are clean with no wax or leading.

Whats going on here?

also my rifle barrel slugs at .307 which sounds about right so I am sure it is not my measuring device.

Just a couple of comments on the subject at hand;

1. Like others my first instinct is to question your "measuring device". If you are using calipers, there is the culprit. If you are using a micrometer and putting too much pressure on the lead slug, there is another culprit. The .307 of your rifle barrel does not sound "about right" to me.

2. I have three Lee sizing dies and they size as marked.

3. I am not a fan of Lee equipment in general, but their sizers have worked well for me.

4. The easiest way to open up an undersized sizer is to coat some bullets with 320 emery grit (Clover Paste) and push them through. You can use the same slug until it starts to get easy and then use another. You want to clean the die and measure by pushing a clean slug through from time to time to measure your progress. It does not take long to open up a die .001 to .003.

5. In 1959 I bought a well used Starret 1" micrometer and am still using it today, 54 years later. A high quality micrometer is a very good use of your reloading dollar.

6. I agree with your father.

[w0fms]

Hmm.. The sizers have been OK, I've not MIC'd them because I've not had accuracy problems, but I might. For the cost and simplicity though, "leementing" them seems reasonable.

Their dies.. FC is interesting concept and at times is useful to have around, especially when you can pick them up on sale for $9.99. The universal decapper is a nice tool also, but the decapping pin is way soft -- bend those a lot. I know in theory you are suppose to leave the slip insert loose to keep this from happening, but it's almost impossible to get loose right so it is useable.

Based on that experience I personally wouldn't buy a press nor a "standard" die set from them. It doesn't cost much to go "up to" a RCBS set. I inherited my dies from my dad for the most part, and honestly.. I like RCBS presses and dies as a compromise with quality and price. I rather dislike the much more pricey Redding dies that I inherited but use them anyway. Dillion anything is too expensive for the amount I'd use it.

I suppose it's all a matter of "how much" you do and "how much" you want to pay. I think aluminum framed presses are bad juju, even though I do agree with Richard Lee that from a materials strength standpoint the steel frames are overkill. They are not overkill from the standpoint of thread stability or scratching, pitting etc. Aluminum is to SOFT for a tool in most cases... especially a press... even if they can withstand the forces of the press.

Now since I'm a "weekend warrior" at best (more like a "monthly warrior")... I actually prefer the inexpensive molds they make. If I had a steel mold it probably would have rusted by now. My fault, my problem... I know.. but this is my solution.

I always "fluff and buff" or "leement" their molds though as all of them came in a little undersized as well...and don't drop boolits well until some work is done on them. Polishing compound, a Q-Tip chucked up in my cordless drill... then toothpaste.. works great every time.

If you don't mind replacing some cheap parts occasionally made out of cheap alloys and doing a little work on the tools, their stuff is fine. I am glad they are out there because IMHO they are keeping the prices down on the other manufacturers stuff as well.

[Springfield0612]

hi guys sorry about the late reply

I have had nothing but trouble with andy lee from lee precision

Last Year I bought the Lee Progressive loader for like 359$ (not the 1000) and right out of the box the case advancing adjusting large bolt had been cross threaded onto the press. Being Aluminum framed it can not be properly re threaded without using Heli Coils and its such a pain in the *** to do i emailed titan reloading who forwarded it on to andy and it was the same old story pls sent it back for inspection and buyer is responsible for shipping.

I was upset and I'm not paying 50$ for return shipping that will not get refunded, and for 29$ I bought the heli coil kit and fixed it properly with a whole lot of swearing.

Now that I am having issues with sizing dies that are not the right size and a round ball mold where someone obviously fell asleep on the CNC machine because the two blocks round ball in the center does not line up producing what looks like two ball halves that were mashed together. Ive realized the whole save money by using lee precision may not have been a good idea to start with reloading but it was worth giving a shot due to its affordability.

I talked to my dad who is a tough old fart and he tells me I'm an idiot for using anything lee precision and I have to say yes I do agree with him.

Also now that WW lead sources in my area are drying up I am honestly considering switching to jacketed bullets.

I would only be able to go to the range twice a month shooting jacketed vs twice a week with lead

I know this sounds like a real sob story but it seems I cant win with this whole bullet casting thing. I am not looking for pity but does anyone else ever think like me?

I mean when Shelly from Lee Precision puts her Quality Control sticker on the fininshed mold I tend to believe she didn't even look at it and what kind of service is that

It sounds like to me that you do not have the patience and dedication to do what is nessecery for casting and reloading. From what you have spoken here you'll save yourself a lot of stress if you just sell your stuff and buy jacketed bullets. Its not for everyone. So maybe its time to cut your losses and move on. Sorry to sound so harsh and blunt but we are reading a lot of complaining and you've been given great reccomendations on how to apply tried and true fixes, yet you seem not willing to take any of it and just continue to complain. If your too cheap to spend $50 or heck even $29 to get something fixed I highly doubt your going to spend $300-$600 on another progressive press setup from another company. I'd hate to be within earshot of you when your car has something break on it. Holy cow! Equipment breaks, thats the nature of the beast. Either, fix it, have someone else fix it, or junk it. Plain and simple.
Look at the $29 investment in the new tool as such. You bought it, you fixed it, you're still ahead $21 by not paying the shipping for Lee to fix the product. And how many hundreds are you ahead by not buying the Blue Kool aid or another brand? Nothing is perfect, and expecting less is just unrealistic. If your not going to take the steps to be proactive and fix the problem your just adding to it. Call Lee and hold them accountable, do it respectfully and professionally. If not sell your stuff and move on.
It's like the old saying. Show me a drop dead gorgeous beautiful woman, and I'll show you a man who is tired of putting up with her ****. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.

[Love Life]

Ah a Lee bashing thread...



Not really. There has been praise for lee products. We are just discussing their sizer dies.

[jcwit]

Its possible temperature could be a factor.

[pearcetopher]

my friend is bringing me a 110 pound bucket of wheel weights today

as much as I agree casting probably isn't the best idea for someone with no patience and in their early 20's I just cant help but feel good when I make my own bullets

[Tazman1602]

I solved that problem.

........I just buy any Lee type push throughs from Buckshot on the forum.

Perfect every time!

Art

[1bluehorse]

I don't know about Lee or other manufacturors but I do know that if you order a .430 sizer die from Magma Engineering you will get a die that will measure LESS than .430...they will make the die to size a BULLET to .430 using Lyman #2 alloy.....how do I know this you ask? Thats what they told me when I complained about my sizing dies from them NOT being as stated on the die...however they also told me if I sent them back with a note telling them to make the die as stated they would do that (or when ordering a new die)....so, if you order a die from them be aware of this and state what ID you want...