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View Full Version : Who else shoots the 45-60 ?



missionary5155
10-06-2013, 07:06 PM
Greetings
This is my post #4560 so I thought why not use it for something distinctive.
Bought an origonal Winchester 1876 more than 10 years ago as I saw the prices begin the race to the clouds. I really wanted a 50-95 but those were already beyond my budjet limitations. I do have a 50-95 repro but that is another story.

This particular 45-60 is no collectors specimine therefore was affordable. It was reblued and the barrel lined but complete and functional. Normal 28 inch octagon barrel makes it a chore to lug around all day in the river bottoms. The dust cover suffers from the "rattles" but slides freely. The action clunks and clanks with the best of them but cycles without fail.

Accuracy is great.. relined barrel with a .458 bore :>) and a good chamber as would be expected. Out to 100 yards it will shoot 2 inch groups off cross sticks and the origonal iron sights. 3f is the best BP load with a hollow pointed 300 grainer. 1680 runs a close second in accuracy. Have not yet tried enough 5744 to beat out 1680 but maybe will as it looks promissing.

If ILLinois would let me I would thump any corn cruncher with it out to 150 yards. As I hunt river bottoms real ranges are 35 yards and less. I have always hoped when hauling the 1876 to get a chance at the cougars DNR released 20 years ago but has not yet happened. I have no doubt any critter I ever see in the bottoms would be thouroughly devastated by that 300 grain HP (50-50) chugging along at 1250 fps. At 35 yards that boolit blossoms nicely. Ground hogs out to 50 yards get flipped head over heels. I hope to someday get to help an old cow or horse to "pass on".

I have fired this 45-60 out to 200 yards. Have shot groups as small as 3.5 inches off cross sticks but I can count on slightly more than 4 inches on a regular basis. Again it has a new .458 bore that is very consistant in diameter. The 200 yard 8 inch round gong is an easy task. Recoil is so light this is one rifle I enjoy shooting on hot days in a T-shirt. 10 pound rifles absorb recoil and turn it into a nice shove.

Brass was made from 45-70 Winchester. That is a tedious process if doing 50 at a time. Dies are RCBS. So far I have not set up a Dillon tool holder. I seldom fire more than 20 rounds off and on so the old RCBS Spartan (my first personal press) keeps up with that need. But they work well and have never caused any trouble.

I thought I had a picture on this computer.. I guess it got deleted when we were up north last time. Nothing special.. Just a regular, refinished 1876 no collector would waste time looking at.. but a Historical Shooter, well that's me and I am thrilled to have it.

So if you also are a 45-60 shooter.. jab those keys and regal us with your experiences. I greatly enjoy reading about these fine old calibers still banging away out in the fresh air. I still hope to find a picture.. maybe my wife stuck them on a disk somewhere.
Mike in Peru

smokeywolf
10-06-2013, 07:54 PM
The '76 45-60 is a favorite of mine.

I cheat and use a lathe to shorten 45-70 cases. I made a PVC bushing with a tapered I.D. to match the taper on the 45-70 cases. The O.D. of the bushing is a straight 1". I slip the 45-70 case into the bushing, slide bushing/case into a 1" 5C collet with a collet-stop backing it up and with a very sharp cutter, high speed and slow feed, neatly trim & deburr my 45-70 cases down to 45-60 in about 20 to 30 seconds a piece.

I use IMR 4198 or 5744 mostly behind the original Lyman 457191 292 grn. boolit cast to about a BHN of 8 to 10. I use a fast enough smokeless to effect a good case to chamber seal, but I push them pretty slow, so I need a fairly soft alloy for obturation. Accurate and pure joy to shoot. If I remember right there are some loads cited in the Ken Waters Pet Loads book.

smokeywolf

Idaho Mule
10-06-2013, 10:32 PM
I "wish" I had one. Please keep us posted on your progress as I would love to know. JW

Ninety Caliber
10-06-2013, 11:06 PM
Hey Mike,
I know you from the Rossi forum,I too wish I had a '76. CDNN has those Chaparral's for $499.Just can't make myself "pull the trigger" with all the negative I've read,don't you have one (Chaparral) as well?

missionary5155
10-07-2013, 05:21 AM
Good morning
Smokeywolf... There is no cheating when it comes to case cutting. I am looking at one of those Harbor Freight cut off wheels. The PVC is a good idea.

Bill... The 45-75 would be the far better of the two 45's. 15 more grains of 3F would give it that extra to go far. I tried 400 grainers... they take up way to much space in that little case and even with 3F they lack "punch" at 100 yards. Never have "wore out a scabbard" but sometimes I feel my arms are going to drag the ground after a 3 hour strole through the marsh.

Idaho Mule.. Except for a little more tweeking of 5744 I am happy with the rifle's acuracy. If 3F was all I could ever shoot in it I would be all smiles. 2F takes up too much space. 3F is near perfect. But maybe one day I will get that chance to pop something larger than a fat racoon or ground hog.

Ninety Caliber The newer Chappy's seem OK. I do have a #5000+ Caliber 50-95 that was assembled properly. Checking my written memory it says "4 didjet serials #'s good". I looked at those CDNN offerings also. That was a deal at $499 and it ended yesterday. I was very tempted. But I was looking at a "fat bore" BFR and that "toyoto smasher" won out as I already have a 45-60.
You should have got one. It is a fun caliber and the new rifles do not ratttle and klunk as bad. With a well used 1876 if you heavy grease the moving parts it helps for about a dozen cycles. But no matter when they were made, as soon as you pull the side plate and see those toggles (1873 models also) hopefully the warning bell sounds and the brain replies, "this is not a strong bolt locking system". For an "up close" caliber the 45-60 is a winner.
Mike in Peru

missionary5155
10-07-2013, 08:20 AM
Howdy Bill

No I have not tried the 330 grainer. Took a standard 300 grain Lyman and drilled a HP. The basic 300 grainer did fine cast of 40-1. Under 50 yards with the HP I prefer 50-50 as 40-1 turns near inside out.

I read the 1876 report some years ago. To me there were a few items not addressed.
#1 Head space conditions after any overload.
#2 Accuracy conditions after an overload.
#3 Relative safety after any overload.

How many overloads will the 1876 or 1873 frame stand up to as it stretches ? Will it finally stress crack ? Will it finally have so much extra head space that the unsuported brass blows out ?
I have a gut feeling those tests were a PR stunt. There already was a problem in the design. Granted it was a good design at the time. But Winchester still had thousands of actions produced waiting for sale. Good economics says only sales count. For use with BP the 1876 and 1873 were OK. But after hundreds of rounds the constant hammering on the frame and toggles takes affect. Why are "custom longer length" toggles available ?
It may have been a whole different outcome had a well used rifle been subjected to the same tests. But reality still remains the same. All metal suffers from use and abuse. Parts wear out.
A "toggle" rifle in good condition and not subjected to excessive pressures will last a very long time. But eventually it will suffer deterrioration. All machines do.
Mike in Peru