This is what happens when I try to tumble lube...

[tyeo098]

Lee 120gr TC: Harder than fingernail scratch, lube-size-lube with straight snot LLA sized .357
3.5gr Bullseye
1.05" OAL.

I'm thinkin my boolets are too hard, or my load is too hot for the OAL.
I have some 45-45-10 at the ready, but have no 'in the white' boolets to coat it with.

Gun was my baby- a (now very clean) 2009 CZ75B

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s249/tyeo098/20131005_212634_zpsc044f012.jpg (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/tyeo098/media/20131005_212634_zpsc044f012.jpg.html)

[nhrifle]

Leading like that usually points to an undersize boolit. If you haven't yet, slug your bore, measure the high points, and size a thou or two over that to provide good gas seal.

[geargnasher]

Impressive!

Now pull a boolit from one of your loaded rounds and measure the diameter of the driving bands. I'm betting they're considerably smaller than .357".

Gear

[geargnasher]

Leading like that usually points to an undersize boolit. If you haven't yet, slug your bore, measure the high points, and size a thou or two over that to provide good gas seal.

Beat me to it. Looks like a classic example of case swage. Forget the groove dimension, size to the throat entrance diameter if it has one and us a .38 Special expander spud.

Gear

[tyeo098]

Huh.

I did all of that.

CZ75 Barrel slugs out to .356"

I have a leftover round that FTF'd (or I ejected it for some reason... iunno) I'll pull it and verify.
(Actually that will have to wait since my gf just showed up and wants to watch movies lol)

[capt.hollis]

Lee 120gr TC: Harder than fingernail scratch, lube-size-lube with straight snot LLA sized .357
3.5gr Bullseye
1.05" OAL.

I'm thinkin my boolets are too hard, or my load is too hot for the OAL.
I have some 45-45-10 at the ready, but have no 'in the white' boolets to coat it with.

Gun was my baby- a (now very clean) 2009 CZ75B

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s249/tyeo098/20131005_212634_zpsc044f012.jpg (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/tyeo098/media/20131005_212634_zpsc044f012.jpg.html)
I doubt that bullet is too hard . Definitely got something else going on there. Only time I seen that when I sized my 30 cal blackout to .309 when I should had left the bullet alone.

[fryboy]

you can coat any of the umm not "in the white' projectile with any kind of tumble lube , rooster jacket for example used to state to do it to jacketed to help reduce fouling( i'm going to assume carbon and copper on that one as i never tried it ) and folks have been known to coat store bought boolits to cover up the hard lube
i also admit that i didnt check your load data or pressure level [shrugz]

[tyeo098]

Pulled bullet measures out at .357".... So it doesn't seem to be swaged.

The leading only seemed to be happening in the last 1.5" of the barrel or so. Is it lube failure?

[Wally]

I shoot the Lee 120 TC 90239 and use the same Powder Charge in my Taurus 99AF... Accurate with minor leading--I size to .358" and use regular lube...is the bullet you are using the TL 90238 style? Others have mentioned that the TL bullets don't do well in a 9mm Luger..

[tyeo098]

Wally- what OAL are you using?

[ZigZagMarquis]

:shock:

Yikes!!

I thought I had leading problems!

Now I realize I don't.

You Win!!

:kidding:

[Wally]

Wally- what OAL are you using?

1.057"

[tyeo098]

I'll trade ya my TL mould for your regular one ;)

I'll have to load up some with that 45-45-10 and see if it makes a difference.

[Full Mold Jack]

You could try lube-size-lube-lube

I have one gun that prefers a good coating of that snot.

[fixerupper]

Check your crown.

[zwv1951]

If bullet is sized right then go with a slower powder.... Unique or slower. This along with 45/45/10 solved leading problems in my 9mm and .40sw.... Bullseye works ok in my .45 but it has a much lower cup pressure...

[tomme boy]

I had problems also when I used to use the ALOX. What I found was to give two coats after sizing. That helped mine.

[wistlepig1]

I have seen leading in wheel guns but nothing like that, no suggestions here. WOW!

[Love Life]

Tumble lube the already lubed bullets with a coat of 45-45-10. Looks a bit like a case of lube not making the whole trip down the barrel from the pictures. Now if the leading goes down the entire length of the barrel, then I got nothing except for you to try a new lube. Might I suggest Lotak Hard or Speed Green?

[220]

I had similar issues in 9mm using the lee 124conTL cast from WW, accuracy was acceptable from a clean barrel but leading would be that bad after 50 shots that bullets would start tumbling.
Only solution I found was to drop velocity to about 900fps, pressure with the load is also much reduced and while leading hasn't been entirely eliminated, even 300rds still sees acceptable accuracy no tumbling and only minimal leading.

[fredj338]

Leading at the end often means a lube failure. Sounds like the bullet fit is correct, but smaller bullets usually lead sooner than later. Alox & the 9mm gets a lot of neg reviews, especially the TL design. I would try another lube mix or diff bullet design w/ the same lube.

[captaint]

I might try sizing them to .358 also.
Mike

[tengaugetx]

I'm shooting a Lee 356 125R from a 6 cavity mold tumble lubed in LLA and 3.6grains of Bullseye. Not a tumble lube bullet. I get similar results from my stainless Kimber Target. I mixed some 40/40/20 but have not tried them yet.
To be honest I shoot them with good accuracy and I just clean my pistol after a 3 to 5 hundred rounds. I use a kleen bore led away cloth. It works better than the chore boy for me.
I also get similar results from my Smith 686 with the Lee 140gr SWC also from a 6 banger and using LLA and about 3.5 grains of bullseye.
I am hoping it is a lube problem since I get similar results with both loads.
The rounds are quite accurate with no key holing. It just takes a little longer to clean my guns.

[Ben]

Much has been said about this Lee 38 / 357 , 125 gr., Tumble Lube Trucanted Cone cast bullet being an in-accurate bullet.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/Capture-6.jpg

Most of the " horror stories " link the bullets poor performance to the 9 mm Luger round, hitting the target sideways, etc. I've never tried it in that particular round, but I have plenty of experience with it in the 38 Spec. If you can get it to cast large enough, it is a SHOOTER !

I cast these at .3590" ( I had to lap my mold to get it to cast this large ! As they dropped from the mold prior to lapping, they miked .356 ", which could be a big part of the problems with accuracy in the 9 mm Luger) . Shooting " sub- sized " bullets will get you nothing but leading and poor accuracy.

Once sized to .358", I put 1 thin coat of 45-45-10 on them, let them dry over night and load them in 38 Spec. Cases.

It shoots VERY WELL in my Model 92 , 38 Spec. / 357 Mag. rifle also.

Not a hint of leading in My Smith and Wesson 686 with this bullet and load used in the test target below :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/001-76.jpg

By the way, my friend took my pistol and ammo and shot ( at the same distance with 6 rounds ) a tighter group than I did in the photo above. THAT ALWAYS HURTS ! !

[rintinglen]

Most failures attributed to LEE Liquid Alox are the result of following their directions. When they say, "two light coats" many people end up with "TOO light coats." If the boolit ain't bronze, you didn't use enough. I have used LLA and Recluse 45/45/10 with complete satisfaction up to 2300 FPS in my 30-40, but not with the gentle dusting that is sometimes described. There has been good advice already listed above, but the three kernels that should help you the most.

1. Try a .358 sizing.
2. Try a lower velocity/pressure loading
3. Try more lube, after sizing.

[Boolseye]

I agree with Ben. It's a shooter if you dial it in. Lapping the mold is a great idea.

recommendation to OP: don't size them at all, and use a .38/.357 expander for your 9mm cases.
load them w/ 2 micro-grooves exposed (around 1.15", if memory serves) and watch the keyholes go away.

I spent awhile getting that boolit to shoot well out of my SIG.
3.5 gr. BE is not too hot. Should be just about right, you can even go up a couple 10ths.
-boolseye

[FergusonTO35]

I assume you are using the Lee 356-120-TC which is a conventional lube groove boolit. I use the same boolit, same powder and charge, and same OAL sized to .357 with 50/50 besswax alox in three different pistols with excellent results, in fact its my carry load. I'm thinking your boolits are undersized, your alloy is too soft, or you need a different lube. I use a motley mix of range scrap and WW, water dropped straight out of the mold. What are you sizing your boolits to? I would change one variable at a time and see what happens.

[Boolseye]

I assume you are using the Lee 356-120-TC which is a conventional lube groove boolit.
The OP mentions his TL mold in one point. I think he's using the TL356-124TC.

[waco]

:lovebooli:lovebooli:lovebooli
Impressive!

Now pull a boolit from one of your loaded rounds and measure the diameter of the driving bands. I'm betting they're considerably smaller than .357".

Ummm.... yeah, what Gear said......
Gear

[Stephen Cohen]

The load you gave was my standard load in my CZ. I would slug bore as mine was 358 and only way to get it to shoot was to use as big a cast as possible.