Want to Have Some Fun With an Interesting .30 Cal Single-Shot With Me?

[Jeff H]

I have this neat little single shot rifle in .30 caliber with a case capacity similar to the .357 Magnum. It's not a 32-20 and it's not a 30 Carbine, not an obsolete black powder cartridge not exactly "new" and has a rate of twist which is specifically designed to handle ridiculously long bullets. I can form cases from common and relatively inexpensive brass, which I already have anyway and I have some LEE .311 170 grain FPs cast up, not sized or lubed.

Does this sound like a fun project yet?

OK, its a 300 Blackout Handi Rifle with a 1:7 twist.:oops:
It's black and has plastic stocks and is threaded for a suppressor but, who cares?
Forget all the chatter about what the 300BLK is or isn't - we don't care about all that and just want to have some CB fun with this cute little gun.

So, has anyone messed with this round (or its old relative, the 300 Whisper) using cast and Unique, 2400 or W231/HP38? I have other powders but want to experiment with these first. I happen to have some IMR 4227 but I don't plan on restocking the 4427 once it's gone. These powders have served me very well using cast in the .223, 30-30, .357 Max., .38 Spl., .357 Mag. and .44 Special and if it won't shoot with these, I'm not running out and buying (or, at least looking for) another powder. There are MANY excellent powders out there but I have narrowed things down to a few that are very versatile for me across a wide range of cast bullet shooting.

The rifle powders I now use (H335 and one of the 4350s) are definitely too slow but I did find CB loads for the 30-30 using these two. I do have some IMR 4198 and 3031 left but won't be restocking it. I know I won't be getting the top velocities with my plan but that's OK - that's not my goal. Maybe after I get everything dialed in and get bored, then I may experiment with how fast I can run the fairly common 100 through 170 grain bullets - specifically not bullets specifically designed for this "new" round. Several years ago I gave up the chase - trying to feed thirty different guns with fifteen different powders and if this doesn't work with what few I choose to keep on hand, I will move along to some other cartridge. The rifle is exactly what I wanted in a .357 Mag though but I haven't found one of the old, slender-barreled ones - at least not at this price.

[wcp4570]

Jeff
There is no doubt in my mind that you will have fun with a handi in blackout. I am getting parts together to build a 300 blackout upper for my AR. My upper will be a dedicated cast shooter. I have a good brother-in-law that let me borrow a 300 upper to play with until I get mine built. I now have 2 loads that are fully functional but have not put either on paper yet. The Lee 312-155r2 over 14.5 grains of H110 yields 1720fps and the Lyman 311041 over 14.0 grains H110 at 1615fps is the second load. I'm not having any leading issues with either load. If I had a bolt or single shot I would start with Unique and have some fun with this little round. Boolits from 110gr to 250gr is a lot of experimenting. Keep us informed on how it goes.

wcp

[Jeff H]

wcp,
Thanks for the encouragement. I don't think that I have ever shot anything with cast that I didn't start with Unique.

I found a LEE double cavity today that casts a .313" - .3135" round flat point at 115 grains and takes a gas check. I cast up fifty to see how they will work. I have a small pile of the 170s cast up which I will try later. I shot a very similar 170 in the 30-30 using a low dose of Unique and the results were pleasing. I would think I should be able to duplicate the velocity using the 30BLK once I account for the difference in case volume between the two.

[wcp4570]

Jeff
I'm with you on this little round as being a fun round to play with. It seems to me that it was designed to shoot cast Boolits in a wide range of weights. I enjoy making my own brass and developing loads to do what I want to accomplish. I live in Texas and the price of hunting has kept me from hunting for quite a few years now so I will not be using it to hunt with. I just enjoy reloading, shooting and seeing how small a group I can shoot.

I like using Unique with cast in the bolt and lever guns and have shots some good groups with cast loads. If I had a handi I would be using Unique for the blackout as well. I believe the blackout with cast and the right powder could almost duplicate the velocity of jacketed ammo. The 150 to 170 grain cast may be the optimum weight to get the most out of this little round.

So let the fun begin and let us know how it goes with the little handi.

wcp

[GARD72977]

I have been shooting the Whisper for years. I have one that is chambered in a t/c contender with a rim. I make it from 357 maximum brass. The rifle likes the old accurate 2400 powder that was sold years ago. I still have 24 pounds of it. Im glad something likes it.

[rking22]

Don't have one as of yet , but a nice L46 that I keep thinking I would like in that caliber. I was thinking along the lines of a dose of RL7 with the RD 165.Will be watching his thread for inspriation! THanks for bringing it up.

[Jeff H]

Picked it up today and it's just the cutest little thing! I already have a NEF Youth Synthetic with a 20" barrel and this thing is even smaller than that one!

My dealer also recommended 2400, which makes me VERY happy because it is one of the few pistol powders I plan on having on hand.

Overall, the gun looks way better than the last "current era" H&R I bought but the extractor sticks up and scrapes the brass badly. I will have it apart to do an extractor to ejector conversion anyway and will clean that up.

The dealer who did me the great favor of dong the transfer asked about my dies and I told him I just got a new set of LEE dies and he said "pitch 'em." Now, I know that he is not a LEE hater out of hand and he said that they wouldn't get the shoulder in the right spot and were too radius'd at the shoulder. I formed some and expected that the shoulder would not be well defined until I fire-formed them but I tried to chamber a case when I got home and NO DICE! Action would not close, so I have to see if The die turns down any further. I did not have the rifle on hand when I formed the first few and didn't want to get carried away and set the shoulder too far back, so it may just be that I didn't run the case in far enough. I have some measuring to do.

Guard72911, what's the difference between "old" and "new" 2400 and when did the transition take place? I have been using it since the seventies and always start low and work up with each new can anyway so I may have missed something. I am not seeing any noticeable difference in the last can I bought from what I have used for years.

rking22, I would love to have that mould. When I had save up for it and went to order it, Michael had stopped selling except for what was left - and none of those were left. I have seen several references to RL7 but have not noticed if any were for cast.

Still want to do the Unique or W231 thing too. That may take some extra experimenting.

Thanks for the help and the encouragement, guys.

[barrabruce]

I'm listening with intent.
I got one in 30-30 with the 20 inch barrel and have fun with light loads.
Well before this come out.
But the blk out is so much smaller.
I'd like to hear how well it shoots and how it boots and blasts with out one of those threaded for accessory things on the end of it.

Now if it had a rim I'd be all over it.

Barra

[TCTex]

I am shooting a 300 Whisper out of a 16in Encore. So far, my pet fun load is 4gr Red Dot with a 180 NOE K-31, and CCI @1050 fps.

FWIW.

Duane

[TCTex]

Barra, you can use 357 Max brass for the 300 (whatever)

[Jeff H]

I like the idea of a rim too but 5.56 or .223 brass is easier to find and cheaper than .357 Max, so I won't argue.

Originally (long story) this was supposed to be a .357 Mag. I've been through a number of ideas and actual guns trying to get this platform in the .357 but so far, no dice. I'd swap this puppy for one just like it in .357 in a heartbeat.

All the same, I have been reading what I can find on this cartridge and have found lots of arguments regarding its amazing capabilities and dreadful shortcomings. It's often compared to the 30-30 and I won't even touch that one with a ten-foot pole, BUT I had the 30-30 in mind when I grabbed this carbine because the way I was loading the 30-30 with cast bullets, the 300 BLK actually has a more appropriate case volume for the powders I intend to use. I don't remember exact loads and am not digging them up, but I was using the 30-30 as a .357 sorta-surrogate (don't ask - long story). It did some of what I wanted it to do but the gun was long and heavy and I wasn't using/didn't need the powder capacity.

Thanks TCTex for the load information.

I have the barrel soaking in Hoppes and have dredged a fair amount of black stuff out of the bore so far. The bore looks nicer than any of the more recent Handis I have had but they all shot well in spite of their looks. The extractor needed some attention (what it really needs is to be converted to ejector) and I found machining chips inside it so am doing a more thorough cleaning of all of it now. about 20% of the very edge of the latch shelf is missing on one side and it's hard to tell with the phosphate finish and heavy sand/bead blast they did whether it was chipped off (hard to imagine because it's not very hard) or melted off, like maybe when they welded the lug the wire/rod arc'd close to it as the pass started or stopped. Other than that, it's nicer than any current Handi I've seen in a while. The trigger is very crisp with no creep but it may just be that when I finally overcome the horrendous pull weight that I don't notice. It max'd out my RCBS 72 oz. trigger pull gauge and I am guessing it may be six or more pounds.

Thanks for pitching in, guys. I am hoping to shoot it this weekend but we have a two-day muzzle-loading season Saturday and Sunday and I promised a new hunter that I would take her out. I also came up short on gas checks, haven't had time to order and won't pay shipping on one box of gas checks with the commercial folks. Have not had time to poke around here to see who's selling them either. I can make .35s but not 30s yet.

[2wheelDuke]

.300blk is a cool little round. I've enjoyed it so far. I've only got an AR so far, but part of me would love to convert a Savage Axis. My brass is all converted with Lee dies and all chambers fine in a Palmetto State Armory upper.

I've got 98% cast with it, and most of the time, a dry patch has it looking clean as a whistle. I want to try some subsonics, but I can't find any AA1680. I was given some of the NOE 247gr whisper bullet, and I've got some loads to cycle with reloader 7, but they're a bit high pressure wise. That's in a 16" barrel, and I don't own a suppressor.

[Jeff H]

...........I want to try some subsonics, but I can't find any AA1680.................

You only need 1680 to make the bolt cycle, right? The way I'm thinking, faster powders would be easier to get quieter without a can. They wouldn't cycle the bolt but, if you're thinking about a barrel for your Savage, you are not necessarily strictly averse to operating a bolt manually.

The 16" barrel isn't going to be ideal, but then, I could only get the 30-30 so quiet with a 22" barrel. The .357 is quieter even in a 16" barrel, and my 20" .223 is quieter than the 22" 30-30 as well. In the .357, my bullet is "heavy" (190 grains) as compared to what is "normal" for the .357 (158 or so) but the 30-30 and .223 are using 170 grain and 50 grain bullets respectively - not exactly "heavy" for caliber in either case. I have not stuck a bullet in the bore but it is definitely something you must be vigilant about and I confirm that the bullet has exited the bore each time I fire.

Here's the rub:
Even though the 22" 30-30 barrel has almost identical volume for gas expansion as the 16" .357, the .357 is much quieter. The 20" .223 is about as quiet as the .357 but has less than half the volume for gas expansion. I may be over-simplifying this but that's been my observation. I'm thinking that I am reducing muzzle pressure by having the gas volume pretty much used up by the time the bullet gets to the muzzle. Pressures in each is low - sooty cases, round primers and backed out round primers in the .223 until I opened the flash holes some. These bullets are going slow. You hear a distinct "snap-whack" when you pull the trigger - the "snap" being the report and the "whack" being the impact on the target.

First, I want to come up with a 10 to 100 yard pest (including coyote) round and later work on quiet loads (without a can) mostly for giggles and late night extermination chores. My experience with the 30-30 in that respect leaves me with low expectations but I would think that the faster powders would get one closer to quiet than the slower ones - as long as cycling a gas operated bolt is not a requirement, which for me it is not.

Finding a starting point for the faster powders seems to be the impediment as I have seen little else besides things like H110/296, Lil'Gun, 1680, 4227, 4198..... If I have to break new ground, I will, but it would be nice not to have to reinvent the wheel.

[barrabruce]

4-5 gains of bulleyes in the 30-30 with a 150-170 gets me a around 1000 fps or a bit more.
2 grains will push them out fine in mine with a pp bullet rubbed well in lube. Will be testing them out this week end I hope.

I thought the ol 30 -30 wouldn't be as loud as the 357.

Did you use the same powder like bulleye or something???

I really like rimmed rounds for this work.
Thinking maybe a 310 cadet or 32-20 with a new fast twist barrel 357mag if I could shoot rabbits out yonder and eat them still.
Still that little handy be smaller and lighter and takes apart small and convenient.

[bikerbeans]

Jeff,

I have formed hundreds and hundreds of 300 BO brass from .223 & 556 and even a few from cutdown 357 Max and all have chambered w/o issue. I have formed all this brass with the Lee 300 AAC FL size die. The brass has chambered in a custom barreled Handi 300 BO and two different AR platform blackouts. The only problem I have had to date with the brass is the neck thickness being a little over spec. with a couple of the factory 223s. Lately I have just been converting Military FC and LC brass and no problems at all.


BB


BTW, we might be neighbors I live in western Lucas co.

[Jeff H]

barrabruce,
Yes, same powder (W231) and same charge in all three. I know - weird. Without test equipment and my not so hot hearing, the .357 and .223 sort of "snap" and the 30-30 was more of a "pop."

I like rimmed cases too. That's one of the ironies of the 300 BLK sitting on my bench. While the .357 is not my first choice in a handgun round, it is undeniably a good handgun round but a really, really good carbine round with a lot of versatility. It's incredibly easy to load for and you can stuff just about any pistol powder in it. It works VERY well with the few powders I stock these days.

The 32-20 has crossed my mind, but .357 brass is cheaper and easier to work with (carbide dies) so, I bypassed than one.

Yes, the Handi is handy - THIS one is anyway. The 30-30 and .357 Max were too big and heavy for what I wanted. This one has to be seen and held to really appreciate it. Take-down capability - why bother? When the dealer handed the box to me, I thought the gun must have been broken down to ship. When I opened that short box, the gun was WHOLE and had a LOT of room to spare on each end!

[Jeff H]

.........BTW, we might be neighbors I live in western Lucas co.

Get outta here, man! All the posts I have read of yours on the 'net and you are less than an hour away! You know, it makes sense though because the shooters I've known in Ohio have all been the best folks. You going out tomorrow? I am taking a first-timer who came over today to sight in the ML she inherited from her grandfather. Didn't even have to change zero between his old eyes and her young ones.

I have formed all of 21 300 BLK cases to date. Being familiar with forming a few wildcats, I annealed the cases after chopping them and quickly realized I probably should have waited. Not much of a should there but I had to see it to appreciate that fact. I did learn that a second pass through the sizer makes them fall right into the chamber - if I hold the extractor out of the way. It has a very stiff flat spring holding it up in the way of chambering a round. I am using FC - the only new brass I have. No idea how many times my LC has been fired so I started pulling full-patch 55 grain bullets from a bag of Federals someone gave me because it was FMJ. That was before last December when .223s, loaded or spent were like driveway gravel. I am using the LEE dies.

So, today, while the new hunter was trying her hand at some off-hand shots at water jugs, I charged a handful of cases and seated some bullets and she got to shoot the 300 BLK today. I found some data for the 300 Whisper using 2400 with 168 grain jacketed. I used 8 grains of 2400 under a LEE 170 grain FP sized to .311 (skipped the GC) and tumble-lubed in 45-45-10, Wolf "magnum" small rifle primers. I seated to crimp lightly on the last driving band before the crimp groove.

I have to say that these bullets are difficult to seat straight. I have never had to really concentrate to get them straight except for in this case. I had to cut almost 3/8" off my LEE seater stem because I ran out of threads.

Anyway, she and I fired nine rounds. Some were seated long and engaged the rifling, the others were seated as stated above, but both loads had just enough pressure to add some definition to the shoulders. I did not chronograph them but they were probably about 1kfps - which I will eventually confirm. There was a little soot on the necks but none further back. Primers looked like new primers with a dent in the middle. No flattening, no transferred machining marks from the breech, no backing out.... We shot at 10 yards with an un-zeroed red-dot (need an EER scope and decent irons) and I was happy with what we got. I will zero the red-rot and see how this load shoots because the brass looks good and there is no lead. The soft 170s were penetrating the stump though, so we quit. I have a starting point with a powder I will be stocking.

One odd thing - a couple of the case mouths and necks has some lead stuck to them. Only time I have ever seen that is on out of time revolvers or ones with horrible forcing cones. It was only on two cases.

[2wheelDuke]

Yes, AA1680 only matters for semi auto functioning. I got my Reloader 7 loads to cycle, but I'm kinda up there pressure wise, and am almost supersonic with them. I'm considering some work on my gas port, and possibly an adjustable gas block to help with that.

But I really wanted to try AA1680 first, since it's the recommended powder for subsonics.

I shoot at a club that allows "pistol caliber carbines" but nothing more for centerfire rifles. I reason that a 220-250gr boolit staying this side of the sound barrier is essentially a pistol class round, and therefore is legal at the club. So far, the president agrees with my logic on that. So far, subsonic .300blk from a 16" AR sounds about as loud as a .38 special revolver to me. It sure knocks a gong target around at 50 yards, seems to hit harder than a .45acp boolit.

If I had a break action or a bolt action, I'd probably be experimenting with numerous powders, and would probably work up a red dot load.

Maybe someday I'll find a lefty Savage cheap for a .300 bolt action build. I have messed around with subsonic .223 in a break action Rossi. Maybe I could sell the .223 Rossi to a friend that just got a .223 suppressor, then put the money towards a Savage build.

[Jeff H]

.........Maybe someday I'll find a lefty Savage cheap for a .300 bolt action build. I have messed around with subsonic .223 in a break action Rossi. Maybe I could sell the .223 Rossi to a friend that just got a .223 suppressor, then put the money towards a Savage build.

Not as easy to rebarrel, and possibly not as easy to find, but a .223 in the Zastava M85 "Mini-Mauser" is another left-handed option. Remington sold them, Charles Daly sold them,.... Might not be your cup 'o tea exactly but at least they thought about the lefties - and trying to talk you out of the Savage, but it's another one to watch for on the used gun racks.

[bikerbeans]

Jeff,

No early MZ season for me, my wife is working so I am in charge of our 16 year old daughter, or maybe it is the other way around? I ain't complaining about missing this antlerless season, since I put doe in the freezer on Thursday with my Xbow. I hope you had good luck hunting this morning, I know you had good weather!

With the 300 BO the only subsonic rounds I have loaded are with 225g and heavier bullets & boolits. The 300 BO has such a long throat if you light load a short bullet or boolit you may be in danger of having a squib. I had this happen 3 or 4 times with a couple of the stubbed barrel 300 BOs a friend of mine and I built. Side note, we built several stubbed barrel 300 BOs because it didn't look like AAC and HR1871 were ever going to ship any. About a month after we finished building our single shot BOs the factory ones started shipping. Also, I think the buttstock on the factory 300 BO is a youth length stock, so if your LOP is too short you can get a replacement adult stock from Choate Machine. ATI also make an adjustable buttstock with pistol grip that will fit your gun as well.

Tom

[Jeff H]

Tom,
I didn't go out this morning but I made it out for the afternoon. The young lady I tool along ins a real trooper - I'm impressed. Usually, I am very wary when out with someone new but she is one good hunting partner. Congrats on the deer! I missed one with a crossbow once after I did a quarter-mile low crawl across corn stubble to get within 20 yards and missed. I have a witness - my neighbor. He watched from his deck a half mile away and when he told ME the story I acted as if I couldn't believe it. NO WAY was I going to stand there and admit that I was the one who missed a deer at twenty yards with a cross-bow. Sure would have liked to take the credit for the stalk but I was too embarrassed to own the miss, so I pretended it wasn't me he watched do it.

I'm still processing the squib thing. Even though a long jump to the rifling usually results in poor accuracy, there are some exceptions - I have shot .38 Specials in a .357 Max. with excellent results. Are you saying that the accuracy was poor or that the jump results in a seriously underpowered round? I have a .313" RNFP that sizes down to .311 nicely which I would like to try. This is not one I would intend to shoot sub-sonic, in fact, if there is one I would like to see go fast, this is the one. We'll see how the 1:7 twist treats it though. Speaking of "light" bullets, if I EVER buy (gag!) a jacketed bullet for this thing, I would be curious how the Sierra 110 HPs do. They are bad news for woodchucks in the '06 and 308 Winchester.

Yes, the stock is definitely the youth stock and it's short even for me. Doesn't matter with the red dot sight but that's only on there because I only have low rings and none of my scopes clear. I usually trim the hammer spurs but haven't this one yet, so the red dot is working for now.

I handled an ATI collapsible stock a few weeks ago on my new hunting partner's 12 gauge and I liked it. I may hold out though and watch for a youth wooden stock on GBO though because that's what I put on my .223 Youth Synthetic. I kept the plastic forearm and added the slightly longer wooden youth stock and it's perfect. Has a little comb that helps with the scope and I coated it with truck bed liner as recommended there and you have to really, really look to tell the difference.

My LEE seating die is giving me fits and I may have to engage the services of a machinist. That it floats vertically is great but it also floats horizontally - a lot. None of my other LEE seating dies have given me this problem.

If anyone knows where to get a LEE collet die for the 300 BLK, please let me know. I was sure I had read they had them but I am not seeing them for sale anywhere. Maybe I imagined that. I much prefer the LEE collet sizers and have used them almost exclusively since they came out. It is especially nice that you can actually adjust neck tension because I tend to cast my bullets somewhat soft and rarely water-drop them. Typical FL dies tend to cause my necks to RE-size my bullets and I can avoid that with the collet die.

[Jeff H]

4-5 gains of bulleyes in the 30-30 with a 150-170 gets me a around 1000 fps or a bit more.
2 grains will push them out fine in mine with a pp bullet rubbed well in lube. Will be testing them out this week end I hope.

I thought the ol 30 -30 wouldn't be as loud as the 357.

Did you use the same powder like bulleye or something???..............

OK, put a few through it today with 1.2 grains of W231. Not as loud as the 30-30 but still slightly louder than the .357. I'd say not a quiet as a .22 short but not down to CB level. The 170s made one hole at ten yards with no rest. I was mostly interested in seeing if they'd do OK with the 1:7 twist and all went well. Ten yards, 25 yards is max for what I use these for so I haven't messed with them much beyond that - only enough to figure out they drop 6" to 8" at 50 yards.

Disclaimer: This load is not in any manual I know of and was worked down to carefully using my components in my gun - confirming 100% that the projectile left the bore after EACH SHOT. Don't delve into this area of reloading without extensive research. Your rifle, your body, your chances.

[barrabruce]

Well the 2 grns bulleye with 150's went roughly 4" at 50yrds could see the bullet fly.vSounded and flew like those extra low velocity 22lr

3 grains and they grouped well at 50
4 grains and I was stacking them at 50 yrds. accurate enough at 300 mtres.for the gong.
55 moa drop at 300 meters sighted in at 50 yrdds so they were subsonic anyway. about the snap of a 22lr with std velocity,
Think the 1:12 twist limit for my gun.
Hope to hear of accuracy wise testing with your handi.
Have you done a pound slug or cast the chamber yet???

I'll keep me eye on this thread.

I was thinking could the difference in sound of your test been the primers...small versus large rifle???

Bruce

[Jeff H]

......................
..........Think the 1:12 twist limit for my gun.............
..........Hope to hear of accuracy wise testing with your handi.........
..........Have you done a pound slug or cast the chamber yet???

I'll keep me eye on this thread.

I was thinking could the difference in sound of your test been the primers...small versus large rifle???

Bruce

Hah! Small V. Large Primers...... Completely overlooked that. I was using large pistol in the 30-30 for THAT load and am using small rifle in the .357 Mag, .357 Max, .223 and 300 BLK.

Trouble is that the small rifle primers keep falling out of my 30-30 cases.:wink:
Federal made some 30-30 small rifle primer cases ("30 American") as basic brass some time ago for forming into other cases.

I have a 1:7 twist, which is the one thing I am unsure about. If it were any other .30 cal twist, I would never have thought twice about cast loads with 100 to 130 grain bullets and I'd have likely tried to sneak up on a good 150 grain load. I have read a lot of good reports on light jacketed bullets shooting well in typical 300 BLK twists using jacketed so I have some hope. I won't be shocked if they don't do well at 2kfps but if I can get them to 1700 or 1800, I should have a fairly flat-shooting varmint round. Poking around anywhere I can locate data, I am seeing 170s getting into that area occasionally but it is something I would approach with great caution and may or may not ever reach using 2400. The guy who ran it in Quickload told me 15.5 grains of 2400 should get 1800 but the OAL he gave me would leave me breech-seating because the bullet is not long enough.

Finally saw some Unique data for the 300 Whisper. None of the cast data I have seen has been from a powder or bullet company except for the very heavy bullets (220 to 240) and I don't plan on using those.

I will post accuracy reports as I get them but I get small bits of time here and there over many weeks so it will trickle in.

[2wheelDuke]

I was looking into a .300 bolt gun again the other night. For what it'd cost, I could pick up a nice lefty bolt .308. I wound up buying a Ruger Gunsite Scout, stainless, lefty, with an 18" barrel. It'd take alot of work to make a Savage work with a magazine. The only .300blk barrels I saw around online were a heavy barrel profile. I'd have to either spend alot on the gun or come up with a custom stock to make that work. And custom stocks for a lefty aren't easy to find.

I'm pretty sure I can easily download to .300blk velocities if I want to. The Lee 155's come out around 160-162gr with a check and lube from the alloy I used. My 16" .300blk AR sends them downrange around 2,000fps. I'm guessing that I could get a good accuracy load around there in the .308.

I still love .300blk and still want to build one, but for now, .308win beat it up and stole it's lunch money.

[thehouseproduct]

Tag for a later response.

[thehouseproduct]

I use lots of 2400 in my 300 Whispers/Blackouts. I've also used xterminator, H110, 4227 and others. I've loaded probably 15 bullets, half of them cast. Single shots and an AR.

[Jeff H]

.......And custom stocks for a lefty aren't easy to find..........

I may be cheap and I may be broke, but it's also just fun to see how little you can spend to reach a gun-related goal. Compromises have to be evaluated, assessed and chosen carefully. My original idea centered around a short, light, cheap .357 Mag carbine and look where it's gotten me. If you have to go through the .308 to get where you're going, then you're still moving toward the objective even if you have to go sideways or backwards for a while. No flies on the .308.


I use lots of 2400 in my 300 Whispers/Blackouts. I've also used xterminator, H110, 4227 and others. I've loaded probably 15 bullets, half of them cast. Single shots and an AR.

Yeah, I've been watching your posts elsewhere looking for anything you might have offered up in that respect. When I have been through all 80+ pages of posts there, I will start my search again using "300+whisper." I have to do it ten or fifteen minutes at a time and it's a slow process. For what I am looking for, I probably should have started there but there's a lot of information on the Blackout and occasionally there is some good cast bullet information embedded in there too.

[bikerbeans]

Jeff,

I was loading 147/150g fmjbts over a small charge of unique (IIRC) when I had the squib loads. After I drove the bullets back into the chamber with a brass rod I found that the entire bullet was burnt black from the combustion gas. My assumption is that so much of the gas bypassed the bullet that there wasn't enough pressure left to push the bullet out of the barrel. I now only load the 220 grain and larger bullets/boolits for subsonic.

I would hate to admit the closest shot I have missed with an Xbow. Let's just say if you try and shoot a deer from your treestand and it is directly behind you one needs to take into consideration the travel of the Xbow limbs and the location of the tree truck. I have also shot a down limb with my Xbow that was about 3 feet in front of me. Limb didn't block line of sight through the scope but did a great job of turning my bolt into a boomerang.


BB

[Jeff H]

OK, I follow on the Unique/squib thing.

Sub-sonic isn't a huge thing for me since I probably won't ever have a suppressor. I probably won't be buying jacketed bullets, I cast fairly soft, I size large (.311") and the throat in my Handi is filled up with part of a 170 grain LEE RFN seated to 1.949" - just barely pressing the forward band into the lands. With 8 grains of 2400, it seals up very well. 1500 to 1700 fps is by no means awe-inspiring speed, but it is well above sub-sonic and about what I would hope to achieve with Unique. Looking at some 300 Whisper data, I think the 1500 fps is probably going to be where Unique takes me.

You topped me with the cross-bow, but I've swung my ML on a deer only to the degree at which the rifle came to a sudden stop against the side of a tree and I once took down a two-inch sapling as I touched a round off at just the right point along another more complete swing. My follow-through in the first case ended shockingly abruptly and in the second case it was superb yet wasted as the ball made it through the tree but not to the deer. I do not shoot at running deer with my ML any more.

[Jeff H]

All my 20 cases had been fire-formed so I had 20 to work with today. I deprimed with a LEE decapper, cleaned the necks with 0000 steel wool, brushed the insides and cleaned the primer pockets. Then, I belled the mouths with a LEE universal case flaring die and seated Wolf "Magnum" Small Rifle Primers. Cases are good to go.

I fussed with the OAL of the LEE 170 grain RFP a little again and shortened the OAL to 1.945" using AS-CAST ACWW bullets which were coming out of the mould at .311" to .3115". This OAL allowed the cartridges to drop into the chamber leaving the base about .020" proud and was easily "seated" flush with the breech with light thumb pressure. Tumble-lubed the rest of them in 45-45-10 (this is a bullet with a regular lube groove) and DID NOT seat a GC.

I shot at 50 yards with a half-way decent rest (no rear bag) using a cheap Tasco 4 MOA red dot, shooting at a 2" bull. I turned the dot intensity down as far as I could without losing it and tried my best to completely cover the black dot. A larger bull would have been a good idea but the focus and concentration that setup took kept my mind off the heavy trigger pull.

I bumped the 2400 load up .2 grains to 8.2 grains. Necks were sooty and covered with lead. I could peel it off with my thumbnail. I sighted in using this load and would have been shooting about one-inch groups - if I'd been shooting groups. Puzzled about the lead on the necks because I have only seen this with revolvers with throats not centered with the bore or really loose throats/small bullets. Yeah, I'm shooting .311" bullets in a throat that is supposed to be .309" but the other loads don't do it and the forward band (.311") fits into the throat.

Then, I tried a Unique load (5.4 grains) and was happy to see what I had expected with a faster pistol powder using that case volume. Using the same components and OAL, I shot three into .495" at 50 yards. The cases came out of the chamber as clean as they went in - no soot, no lead, no pressure indications. So, an as-cast air-cooled wheel weight bullet, tumble-lubed and without a gas check seated into a primed and charged case that had not been through a sizer die going into under a half inch at 50 yards is a good sign. I did not drag the chronograph or camera out because it was going to get dark soon. Based on some few posts I have seen regarding using Unique, I am guessing 950 to 1kfps out of my 16" barrel. It was definitely quieter than the 2400 load but either would easily be mistaken for a non-magnum pistol shot from a distance.

I also tried a few of the LEE .314 115 grain RFPs (sans gas check) using 4 grains of Unique, all the rest being the same but the OAL was much shorter and I had to size these. They fell out of the mould at .314". Cases came out looking like the other Unique load and with four rounds left, I shot two .375" two-shot groups, two inches apart. Not sure why they were like that but it could have been me. My eyes were starting to get fuzzy and the light was fading.

I need to mount a scope on this thing to develop my loads but I don't have one that will fit. It really needs one with enough eye relief to get the rear of the scope ahead of that hammer sticking way up there.

None of the loads showed any over-pressure signs and the action pretty much falls open, extracting the case to the extent that it does - which is enough to get a fingernail into the extractor groove.

I will play with the Unique load and the 170 grain bullet until I can drag the chronograph out and then mess with the 2400 load some more.