Price check on a Norinco M305 M-14S

[randyrat]

I have been offered a complete parts kits, barrel included for a Norinco M305 M-14S = $500 minus the receiver of course...
I've heard some say they are junk and other say they are great for the price. I realize they are not a Springfield super match. Made in china by , I think H&Rs equipment right?
I think I can build a nice one out of it for $850-$900 basic.

What does a decent receiver cost in today"s dollars?

[savagetactical]

I have been offered a complete parts kits, barrel included for a Norinco M305 M-14S = $500 minus the receiver of course...
I've heard some say they are junk and other say they are great for the price. I realize they are not a Springfield super match. Made in china by , I think H&Rs equipment right?
I think I can build a nice one out of it for $850-$900 basic.

What does a decent receiver cost in today"s dollars?

No.. Norincos were built in Communist China and were reverse engineered from captured M14 rifles and (were going to be) given to insurgent forces in various parts of the world like the Philippines and other places.

The rifles built in Taiwan on US Tooling were called the Type 57 and were a licensed copy. The Chicom guns have a properly heat treated receiver that is dimensionally correct with soft bolts that are prone to failing , the other parts such as the barrel and Gas System are not USGI spec , the oprod are excellent as is the trigger housing once the internals are replaced.

The Last Polytech kit I bought about 6 months ago I think I paid around $350 for, I would be hesitant to pay $500 for a Chicom M14 kit as the most valuable part is the receiver.

[Gtek]

Save your money and buy a good one (SA), you will be much happier in the end. You are opening a can of worms if you are not really familiar with the platform. Gtek

[savagetactical]

The receiver from a Chinese M14 is the foundation for an excellent rifle . I want to stress that it is a building point , the completed guns are less than optimal. If you want something turn key get something else. LRB , Smith Enterprises and 7.62mm Firearms are best , with SA Inc coming in last.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

That's a lot of money to pay for a barrel and oprod with most of the rest of the parts being junk and dimensioned in millimeters instead of inches. I'd pass and I have one of these chicom M14's. I replaced the bolt and other **** parts with USGI parts. Was a lot of work and cost enough, I'd have been better off saving a very few bucks more and buying one of those new rifles put out by LRB arms.

[savagetactical]

That's a lot of money to pay for a barrel and oprod with most of the rest of the parts being junk and dimensioned in millimeters instead of inches. I'd pass and I have one of these chicom M14's. I replaced the bolt and other **** parts with USGI parts. Was a lot of work and cost enough, I'd have been better off saving a very few bucks more and buying one of those new rifles put out by LRB arms.

I agree with this, the people who are able to afford to do a conversion truthfully are the ones who bought their guns back in the salad days of Chinese Imports. Kind of like when Norinco 1911 pistols were being sold for $189 a piece. A real bargain for a forged frame and slide if your were building a pistol at the time.

[Ford SD]

I have been offered a complete parts kits, barrel included for a Norinco M305 M-14S = $500 minus the receiver of course...
I've heard some say they are junk and other say they are great for the price. I realize they are not a Springfield super match. Made in china by , I think H&Rs equipment right?
I think I can build a nice one out of it for $850-$900 basic.

What does a decent receiver cost in today"s dollars?

I am in Canada so I see a lot of Norincos

50-60 norincos to 1 Springfield at the range

Barrel is chrome lined and more than possible 1/10 twist
Stock is a soft wood or a fiberglass model

way in the past 15-20 years ago there was some problems with receivers/ bolts being not heat treated properly

From the number that come to Canada vers the number of problems that pop up, I consider them way above remarlins

Most stores can't keep them in stock

Some guys buy them and put cases and cases of steel case surplus rounds through them with no problems

$500 is way over priced for a parts gun

I have one and shoot cast out of it and it has never leaded the bore on me:grin:

the Springfield have a better barrel, a match 1/11 twist if I remember correctly

[JeffinNZ]

There have been a lot of incidents of 305's going KABOOM in NZ. Be careful.

[10x]

Once again the M305 is very common in Canada and guys put 1000's of rounds through them. I have 3 of them and all give remarkable accuracy.
There may have been an issue with parts on some guns but I have yet to meet someone who has had a problem with theirs.
The first M305 I purchased would put milsurp (Hertenberger) ammo into under an inch at 100 yards. It would put 187 grain lyman bullets into 2 inches or less at 100 yards.

We have a large number of Norinco firearms here in Canada for very reasonable prices. Thank you very much Mr. Clinton. It is seldom that I find one that is not durable and reliable, albeit the fit and finish is sometimes less than stellar.

[MtGun44]

I once examined a KABOOMED Norinco M14 and it had fired out of battery, destroying the gun, but not the shooter.
It appeared (impossible to measure accurately without the armory gages) that either the firing pin was out of spec or
the bridge cam surface was out of spec. In any case, the firing pin tail did not keep the firing pin from slamfiring the
round as it chambered, before the lugs were fully engaged. Partial engagement sheared off a small piece of the right
shoulder on the action and part of the left bolt lug, too.

The firing pin tail being retained safely until the bolt is fully locked is a critical function of the Garand design and it was
not working in this particular gun. Measuring the firing pin accurately without armory gages is a fools errand and same
thing for the bridge camming surface location in the rear of the receiver. Either way - out of spec part(s) was the cause,
not the ammo.

Bill

[joecz858]

Yeah I second that, my brother was shooting his M305 and the rifle blew up on him. He's really lucky, it did as designed and blew out the mag. All the spot welds on the mag were ripped and the body was buldged, needless to say my 305 went to auction shortly after.

[robertbank]

It is odd how experiences with the same rifle can vary so dramatically from one country to another. The only item I replaced on my Norc was the sights. Put a GI Garand rear on it. Other than that jacketed go into 2 inches at 100 yards . Cast work as well. Last complete rifles up here I saw were in the $850 Cdn range. FYI the 1911`s still go for around $349Cdn. The new Police model as very good and only really needs is a trigger job.

Take Care

Bob

[10x]

It is odd how experiences with the same rifle can vary so dramatically from one country to another. The only item I replaced on my Norc was the sights. Put a GI Garand rear on it. Other than that jacketed go into 2 inches at 100 yards . Cast work as well. Last complete rifles up here I saw were in the $850 Cdn range. FYI the 1911`s still go for around $349Cdn. The new Police model as very good and only really needs is a trigger job.

Take Care

Bob

Understated. The latest batch of Norinco 1911s (deal ended last Friday) for about $250.00 were quality products. I have 3 used M305 rifles that give amazing accuracy despite the fact that I bought 2 of them used for well under $400.00
I just purchase a "NEW MARLIN" in 45-70. Fit and finish is not as good as the Marlin of the past, and is not as nice as some of the lastest norinco firearms I have purchased lately. My thanks to Bill Clinton for his trade restrictions on Norinco Firearms - like the GCA '68 it keeps the prices down in Canada.

[robertbank]

Careful about praising Clinton. His successors Bush/Obama both have offset anything Clinton did with their signing of the UN Small Arms Agreements. We end up paying for all the export license fees US exporters have to pay to get product up here. A friend of mine tried to send me up an old rifle scope and it got ceased by US Customs. He needed a $200 Export Permit for the damn thing and I would have had to get an Import Permit just so he could get his Export Permit. Canada has not signed the UN Agreement and under Harper won't.

Just a bunch of feel good nonsense. I doubt the CIA applies for permission to export arms to their list of "friendly" despots around the world. The only folks the legislation hurts are the small retailers and manufacturers in the US. I doubt the US is less safe knowing I don't have an old Redfield 4X scope on my Marlin 336.

Take Care

Bob

[10x]

Careful about praising Clinton. His successors Bush/Obama both have offset anything Clinton did with their signing of the UN Small Arms Agreements. We end up paying for all the export license fees US exporters have to pay to get product up here. A friend of mine tried to send me up an old rifle scope and it got ceased by US Customs. He needed a $200 Export Permit for the damn thing and I would have had to get an Import Permit just so he could get his Export Permit. Canada has not signed the UN Agreement and under Harper won't.

Just a bunch of feel good nonsense. I doubt the CIA applies for permission to export arms to their list of "friendly" despots around the world. The only folks the legislation hurts are the small retailers and manufacturers in the US. I doubt the US is less safe knowing I don't have an old Redfield 4X scope on my Marlin 336.

Take Care

Bob

The standard set by the Arms Trade Treaty, particularly the stamping of country of origin, will be abused as "false flag" stampings will be placed on firearms to divert suspicion from the real supplier of the guns.
The whole purpose of the Arms Trade Treaty is to create a United Nations bureaucratic empire with employees who get their salaries, expense accounts, benefits, and perks paid for by the governments who agree to finance this empire by signing and ratifying the treaty. It is not about the arms trade. It is about creating a financial bureaucratic empire that feeds off the nations who sign the treaty.

It is only the ethical governments that have not signed the treaty. They will not agree to terms they do not intend to keep...

Another question, how does the gun running Eric Holder from the Fast and Furious arms trade with the Mexican drug lords fit into the terms of this treaty?

[Char-Gar]

I have two Norinco 1911A1s and a Norinco Uzi carbine clone. All three are very good firearms, albeit a little shy in the cosmetics department. If offered a Norinco M-14 clone at a good price, I would buy it in a heartbeat.

[felix]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJodESNR-2A

Check this out, Charles....

... felix

[Char-Gar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJodESNR-2A

Check this out, Charles....

... felix

The both went bang every time and both hit water jugs. That was what I expected.

I noticed the maple leaf decal on the Norinco grip, so I expect this video is from Canada where they can get those things.

[robertbank]

The Maple Leaf and the GD five round limit in mag capacity as well. BC type judging from the mountains and foliage in the background. Watching the video makes me want to go buy another. The Norc M 16's are decent for the $750 you pay for them. Nothing fancy but they do go bang every time.

Chalres you wouldn't recognize the new 1911's we are now getting. Finsih is years ahead of the old mil spec early guns.

Philippine police bought a bunch of the Norincos hence the "Police Model" we now get.

Take Care

Bob

[Char-Gar]

Robert...Here is my Norinco. It is SN. No. 400002. I changed out the sights and it now has a Colt long trigger and a Colt barrel. It is a good honest 45 automatic pistol. I have less than $400.00 in it. Good Texas mesquite grips of course.

[Char-Gar]

Here is the Norinco Uzi carbine clone. Good reliable and accurate carbine. It will feed anything you put in the mag with no bobbles including my cast bullet reloads.

The wood stock has been modified to require tools to remove it making it legal according to the Feds.

[robertbank]

Very nice looking piece you have there. I have three Norc 1911's. One has been redone by Joe Dlask out of Vancouver and my Commander by Gunnar out of Pr. George. My third is box stock I use for my bush gun using 45-08 cartridges for bear protection. Being box stock it is identical to the US Army issued pistols. Crappy small mil spec sights but for up and personal they work. Bush is pretty dense here so no shot is going to be much longer than 10 yards.

Cool Uzi you have. We obviously can't get those here in Canada. The Liberals up here would go into cardiac arrest. We do get there .22rifles, their 870 Shotgun clones, double barreled guns (as small as 8" barrels) and a long list of pistols. Norinco made their Model 10 Revolver copy with a 4 barrel so those don't come into Canada either. (Did I say I dislike the Liberals up here?)

The Norincos have very good steel in them as you know and are a steal for what we pay for them. The new Police Model has Novak knock off rear sights, a skeleton trigger and the Commander style hammer. The blueing is very good on them now. The guns still have the tool marks under the slide as you would expect. I have yet to have any kind of failure with mine. My Dlask prepared Norinco I use for IDPA. Unfortunately, I can't bring the gun into the US to compete (the other side of the Clinton ban BTW).

I going to make it down your way again. I have a friend in Mineral Wells. I want to try my hand at your hog shooting.

Take Care

Bob

[Guy La Pourque]

I hemmed and hawed about the Norcs for ages. I too am up in Canada - and the truth of whether these guns are junk or gems is somewhere in between.

If you are happy with the idea of knocking cans around, or hitting a deer in the chest at 100 yards the Norcs will never let you down. A brand new one will set you back $400.00 and change right now in Canada.

The cool kids up here are buying the stock gun, throwing most of the parts in the garbage - and replacing them with air gauged match barrels, USGI stocks, match sights, etc etc. As an outhouse estimate, my research suggests that by the time they get $1900 into the gun - they have a full blown match rifle that will go head to head with Springfield...and they start at around $2800.00 and change. (Remember, these approximate prices are Canadian funds).

The gurus of the Norc M14 can be found at Canadian Gunnutz on their battle rifle forum. If I understand it correctly, one of the best authorities on the subject goes by the handle of 'Hungry'. If I recall they have stickies and posts detailing the mods and changes required to bring the Norc up to snuff.

Americans get snippy about the Norcs because they come from a potentially hostile commie country with a track record for human rights that isn't fit to wipe with. While those politics are grounded in reality - the flip side is that the domestic rifle is over priced, and refurbing Chinese Norcs supports local dealers and local gunsmiths to a far greater extent than the Springfield does.

If you buy the gun with the understanding that it is a fixer-upper you should be fine.

[robertbank]

On the other hand, I put a Garand rear sight on mine and the gun shot as well as I can shoot unmodified. My son has it now and he can shoot inside 4" offhand with it. Do the mods make a difference? I suppose so. I doubt my son would spend money to get the gun to shoot a wee bit better. He has hunting rifles that shoot inside an inch from his shooting blind at 100 yards. Different strokes for different folks.

Take Care

Bob

[Char-Gar]

A rack grade Garand with service ammo is a 3 to 4 MOA rifle and the USA fought two wars with the rifle and it acquitted itself well. Match shooters take these rifles and tinker with them until they make decent rifles for competition. Even match grade Garands are hard pressed to stand even with a good rack grade 03 or 03A3 Springfield.

A Norinco that produces the same level of accuracy is thoroughly acceptable for what it is. The fact that some folks like to turn a battle rifle into something different isn't the standard by which we judge the basic rifle. It is what it is unless somebody wants something different, then they are free to spend whatever they want to make it what it was not. That was a fairly convoluted sentence, but you get the idea.

[Char-Gar]

Mike... My match shooting was in the days when there were plenty of 03s on the line along with NM Garands. I had a rack grade Springfield 03 with a Lyman long slide 48 and it would outshoot any NM Garand. When it came to rapid/timed fire, things swapped ends. I am left handed and had to dismount the rifle from the shoulder to chamber another round. I am a stock crawler and trying to run the bolt with my face on the stock would put the bolt handle in my kisser.

I finally caved and went with the Garand for this reason. The Garand is pretty decent rifle and I keep one around the house for perimeter defense, but my heart belongs to the 03/03A3

I never shot an AR until four years ago, and then it was just 40 rounds. I would like to have one, IF somebody would give me one. I don't want one bad enough to pay real money.

I would by a Norinco clone (M14) in a heart beat if I could get one. I am not Chinese gun adverse. I can always not notice the "Made in China" stamp.

[robertbank]

Sgt.Mike/Char-Gar you said exactly what my feeble attempt tried to do. My youngest (32) has two 30-06 hunting rifles. One is a Husquavarna (sp) and the other a recently purchased Browning. Both have scopes on them that you need a manual and a math degree to operate. From a rest both guns shoot inside of 3/4" at 100 yards. I did manage that twice with my 311291 in the Husky. He does it with factory loads. Neither gun would be ideal as a battle rifle but both, as outfitted would out shoot most WW11 sniper rifles I would think.

Sgt.Mike your comments regarding the AR platform are bang on. Being of another age I like to punch paper with my old Longbranch and have only shot the local varmint rifles aka AR15's occasionally but what that platform is capable of is scary out to 300 yards. I would love to see our military move to the .308 version of the rifle or some other pellet that was a tad bigger than the .22 but that won't happen unless the US did.

Take Care

Bob

[mike daniels]

a friend offered me a norinco receiver for 500 i have to think about it

[10x]

a friend offered me a norinco receiver for 500 i have to think about it
Supply and demand, you can buy the whole Norinco M305 (M14 clone) for under $500 in Canada.
Thank you Mr. Clinton for keeping prices of chinese made guns in Canada.

[zuke]

I made up a side folder with a Mossberg 500 folding stock. It also has a 19 inch barrel. Great blue berry gun!