I am lost. Need advice.

[Half Fast]

Hello. This is my first post. I have been hunting and shooting muzzleloaders for 14 years, on and off, between that and a couple of rifles have taken all my deer (I only hunt whitetail). For a long time I was a traditionalist and did not believe in inlines. I am much more educated now, and have been shooting inlines the last couple of years, starting with a knight tbolt .50, then a cva optima elite 7mm-08 that I bought a .45 bergara muzzleloader barrel for (1/28 24", 209), and now I have picked up a white model 97 .504. Both the cva and the white are sweet shooters.

My conundrum is that I have a mindset to refuse to believe what the bullet manufacturers are trying to push. I am paying over a buck a piece for crying out loud. I shot the cva 62 times one weekend (primer count). I figure I spent about 75 bucks in materials for the loads. My father in law and I used to cast a lee real .50 240 grain that I used in sidelocks with 90 grain 2f and killed piles of deer.

I have this cva optima elite .45 muzzleloader. I bought a dial caliper, and I am going to figure out how to use it. I want to take 45-70 bullets and size them in my barrel by loading backwards about half way, then push them out the breech after the breach plug has been removed. As I understand it (I have never reloaded centerfire) the 45-70 bullet is .458 and my barrel is probably in the .451-3 range.

I am willing to buy the right mold, but I am having trouble finding first hand accounts of those that have been down this road. I would prefer to learn from the experience of others, rather than reinvent the wheel. Am I nuts? I appreciate any direction.

[Outpost75]

For what you would pay for. 45-70 bullets, and the effort to size them, etc. I think you would he better off to have a custom mold bored of corect diameter, with a large meplat about 0.6 to 0.7 of the bullet diameter. A 400-grain bullet with .450 base band with slight bevel, about 0.080x9° to start easily in the muzzle, to align so you can whack it in with a mallet and short starter, then the other bands progressively larger, .452, .454, .456 as you go forward. Lee R.E.A.L. principle. Cast 1:40 tin/lead, use 80 grs. Pyrodex RS or Select. Approximates 45-70 ballistics. Good killer. You will spend some money on a good mold, but not more than 150 sabotted commercial bullets.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

i just use these with my castboolits or hornady XTP http://www.midwayusa.com/product/448726/harvester-muzzleloading-50-caliber-crushed-rib-sabot-for-45-caliber-bullets-pack-of-50

[Half Fast]

Working with what I have, I did take some of the packaged .50 cal hornady sst, with sabot, set aside the sabot, knurled the bullet, and reverse short started it in the .45. Shot pretty good for preliminary results, but I think there is a real good idea out there with a specific boolit (hope I did that right) that has been tried. Looking for experiences. Thanks for the reply. I understand most of it. I will read up on the faq's and get better educated.

[Half Fast]

i just use these with my castboolits or hornady XTP http://www.midwayusa.com/product/448726/harvester-muzzleloading-50-caliber-crushed-rib-sabot-for-45-caliber-bullets-pack-of-50

I am trying shoot sabotless, I have a white rifle, and have read up on the white muzzleloading system, this gave me the idea to try to apply this concept to my .45. I know the lee real kills. The recommend xtp is a good bullet, I have shot it out of my knight with good results. It is still a pistol bullet. I would like to try a rifle bullet as close to bore size as I can get by sizing through the barrel. I will consider a sizing die, with final sizing in the barrel if that is the way to go. I am trying to shoot to 250 yards with this gun with confidence.

[Blammer]

for your optima elite 45 can you take out the breech plug and get a ram rod to push out a bullet?

If you can, oil the barrel really well, get a full dia pure lead ball, tap it in about an inch then push it out, should give you the full bore dia.

Then you'll know how tall your lands are. That will determine a lot when getting a proper projectile to shove down the bore.

a lightly greased felt wad between the powder and your projectile sometimes helps with accuracy.

are you using pellets? how many?
777?
Pyrodex?
black powder? what type FFg or FFFg?

[Blammer]

250 yds will be doable.

I recommend you get a range finder. your drop will matter a bunch and exact range will be really helpful.

[Bad Water Bill]

Several years ago I bought a Savage in line. 5744 is the recommended powder and a very expensive pack of BULLETS and sabots had me off to the range.

They shot very good but i cried at the thought of buying more of those fancy BULLETS.

Due diligence was done. Sabots was easy to find. a 45 cal HP mould of 338 gr snuggled over the powder easily.

At the range i shot several 5 shot groups around 1" at 100 yards.

No Savage does NOT recommend such a practice but it shoots great and only costs about .10 per round.

[quilbilly]

After hunting so many years with prb in 45 cal, I will admit I am biased but just for giggles sometime, try shooting some 440 round ball, greased 015 patches, and 55 gr of FFF which is my deer load. Conventional wisdom says this combination won't work in your rifle but I have been pleasantly surprised more than once over the years. That would really cut the costs and recoil down.

[Lead Fred]

A little round ball, and I tattered piece of fabric: Priceless

[1Shirt]

It often times pays to go back to your basics! They obviously worked and you have tried to fix them! Doesn't always work to fix what isn't broke!
1Shirt!

[Half Fast]

I purchased a partial box (80) of hornady 45 cal .454 255 gr FP Cowboys. I am going to try the sizing trick and post results. I won't be able to shoot for a week, going to a gun show this weekend.

Thanks for all replys. I have a rangefinder. I have shot a bunch of prb (killed my first few deer with prb). Bad Water Bill, you got the right idea. I got about .25 cents each into these .454's.

[45bpcr]

These are all .450 moulds if you have a fast enough twist rate to stabilize them.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=160220&CAT=4157

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=160222&CAT=4157

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Bullet_Moulds_it-793687.aspx?CAT=4157 This is .451

45bpcr

[Half Fast]

45bpcr, I am thinking to apply my idea, I need an oversize bullet, and size with the barrel. I will see how these 454s shoot that I sized. When I find a boolit I am satisfied with, I will consult with yall about molds. I remember reading somewhere about indexing on the lands, marking the bullet when sizing in the barrel, then loading on the same land, but it escapes me now. When I load I will try to start the boolit by had (worked with the trick in another rifle), and see if I can find a sweet spot for loading by trying different positions on the clock when loading. Thanks to all that replied. Will update with results.

[Blacksmith]

Lee makes relatively simple sizers in .451, .452, they can be lapped to a few thousands oversize, if necessary, fairly easily. They fit a standard reloading press.
http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/lube-and-sizing-kit/