6.5mm Carcano

[gnoahhh]

My buddy's son picked up a 1943-vintage 6.5mm Carcano. When I asked him "why", he said the price was $50. Ok, so having studiously avoided these things all my life, what should I advise him regarding the pitfalls of these things and sources for ammo? He hinted at me loading ammo for him, but I really don't want to get into that one.

By the pics he showed me, it does look to be in minty condition, un-Bubba'ed.

[EDG]

There is really nothing wrong with the rifles. See the Ackley Mauser blow up thread by Copper Lake where a Carcano was tortured to death.
They are good shooters with correct ammo. There are not many .266 or .267 bullets around and that is what is needed to make good ammo.

[roverboy]

EDG, is right. They're good rifles. I know some are rough around the edges but, so are some other military rifles that were made in a hurry. A good one with a good bore can be a good shooter. They do have a weird bore diameter though. .266-.268 for the 6.5x52 and .298- about .300 for the 7.35x52. There's a guy on www.surplusrifleforum.com that loves them and owns several. He could probably answer about any question.

[shredder]

I know of some conversions done to those rifles with a sleeved barrel setup to shoot 6.5 x 54 MS cartridge. We run into them every now and then up here in Canada. Apparantly a fellow named Cooey made up a pile of them post WWII and they are nicknamed "Cooey Carcanos".

[JeffinNZ]

They are great. Mine shoots 2 MOA when I do my bit using cast.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Roo%20trip%2010/IMG_0001.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/JeffinNZ/media/Roo%20trip%2010/IMG_0001.jpg.html)

[texassako]

They have an undeserved bad reputation. I would recommend loading for it so you can be sure it is using the proper size bullet. I don't shoot my 6.5 sporters all that much, usually shoot the 7.35's. Brass is readily available and I use Hornady's .268" 160gr round nose in them usually. Buffalo Arms also have a 140gr spritzer that works well. Dies were old Hornady Pacific Durachrome off of fleabay for very little $. I am not set up to cast for them; so others will have to chime in on that. Make sure to get some clips(Numrich stocks them).

[john hayslip]

Graf and sons had some ammo for the 6.5. I got some - first three shots were fine and the fourth was an obvious too high pressure load. I'm going to tear them down and reload carefully. You also need clips for them to use other than as a single shot.

[gwpercle]

I used to think they were just junk , slow to operate and hopelessly inaccurate....untill November 22, 1963..in Dallas Texas.
In fact I just "KNEW" there had to be more than one shooter....no way that one man using that piece of s**t rifle could get off so many shots , so fast ,that accurately. Well , after watching some reinactments and tests done to see if one shooter with that rifle could do it , and to my amazement the shooters did it quite handily.... I'm starting to think the Carcano just might not be such a "junky" rifle. For $50.00 I would buy one...JeffinNZ's looks real handy.( and thats the biggest possum I ever seen). Nice shootin Jeff.
Gary

[Donor8x56r]

I shoot M91 model with NOE 145Gr's and it's great with 11.3Gr of 2400.On a good day this combo is just as accurate as Swiss Model 1911.

Bad part-sights are s@#$%.They take a lot of time to get use to and they are not made for target shooting.

[JeffinNZ]

The critter is an average size wallaby.

[gwpercle]

The critter is an average size wallaby.
They as good to eat as a baked possum with sweet taters?
What boolit mould do you have for it? .266-.268 bore diameter is not the most common size around, Lyman made two or three moulds over the years but finding a mould might be the hardest part of the deal. But that is why we do it , to keep the old, obsolete and unusual shooting.
Gary

[junkman1967]

I had one when I was a kid and you could still get ammo. I always thought it was a neat rifle, but everyone said they were junk. I have one now that I am converting to 7.62x39 The actions are plenty strong and the bad rep is undeserved.

[JeffinNZ]

I started with the Cruise Missile boolit sized .269 to fit my throat exactly. Presently I am working with a NOE 269 145 also sized .269 inch.

[Multigunner]

The undeserved bad reputation of the Carcano was caused by a number of accidents involving extremely degraded WW2 surplus ammo that had been laying around in Egypt since the north African campaign.
The standard propellant the Italians used for Carcano ammunition was a very high nitroglycerine content double base powder called Solenite invented by Alfred Noble.
Like all these early formula double base powders long storage in high ambient temperatures can cause the nitroglycerin to leech out of the mix and puddle up in the case.

I visited a Carcano specific forum years ago where one of the members recounted his experience with this ammo, which resulted in a destroyed rifle and injuries to the shooter.

Some one on that forum had told of deliberately blowing up a carcano for a gun safety film many years earlier. He said he was unable to blow it up with over loads of various powders so he resorted to packing the case with C4 explosive.
The Nobel Solenite powder I mentioned has a higher nitroglycerin content than C4 explosives. Without the moderation effect of the Nitrocellulose the degraded powder had a greater explosive detonation than the C4 used in that demonstration.

A Carcano in good mechanical condition should be plenty safe with good quality fresh ammunition.

Some of the short rifles can be inaccurate if barreled using cut down long rifle barrels since these were progressive twist rifled. Cutting anything away at the muzzle affects the rate of twist.

[gew98]

I shoot M91 model with NOE 145Gr's and it's great with 11.3Gr of 2400.On a good day this combo is just as accurate as Swiss Model 1911.

Bad part-sights are s@#$%.They take a lot of time to get use to and they are not made for target shooting.


I hear you on the sights...they leave alot to be desired . I had a handfull of the 6.5's at one time. Had a couple M38's...a gorgeous M91 moschetto , A true 91 , a flat mint M41 dated 1941 on the stock cartouche and a couple m91 Truppe speziale's. One was 1917 dated and had the crossed rifle accuracy stamp. Some shot fair groups but the lack of adjustable sights to any degree ,ade for alot of guesses on "windage'. I also found when I originally bought a set of RCBS dies I had to send the dies back three times as none of my sized brass chambered easily in any of my carcanos. I had to sell off the *** RCBS dies and got a Lee set..and dang if they did'nt work !. I did find oddly enough that the several hundred rounds of surplus carcano 6,5 ammo I had was a great source of bullets...expecially for my type 38's..they loved those long RN fmj's !.

[Multigunner]

I've run across two cases where use of the Carcano .268 bullet in 6.5 caliber rifles with the .264 bore size caused accidents.
One happened to country western star Granpaw Stoneman. He had a fine Mannlicher Schoenaur hunting rifle he had brought back from WW2, and had never found ammo for. In the late 60's or early 70's a friend who handloaded assembled some rounds for him using salvaged Carcano bullets, which were available in bulk in those days.
Stoneman fired a few rounds at a range then set the rifle aside to take a break.
Before he resumed shooting he opened the action and ejected a empty case. He failed to notice that this was an unfired case, the oversize bullet had stuck firmly in the throat, the powder charge spilled into the magazine well un noticed.
When he chambered a fresh round the bolt was hard to close. by the time it did close the over size bullet was shoved a bit deeper in the bore and the bullet of the following cartridge was jammed deep in its case.
When fired the case didn't rupture immediately but it cold flowed to the extent that it filled in the spaces between bolt head and receiver ring.
A gun smith was able to remove the barrel and clear away the brass restoring the rifle to firing condition.

Another incident was a warning describing a blow out of a Remington 600 carbine in 6.5 Remington Magnum reloaded using the same type of salvaged Carcano bullets. In this case the neck clearance was too tight to let the neck release the bullet cleanly.

Some Greek Mannlicher 1903 rifles have a generic chamber that allows use of either 6.5 MS or 6.5 Carcano. These were reamed to allow safe use of tens of millions of rounds of captured Italian 6.5 Ammunition after WW2.

[texassako]

I have read where the Italians believed in a simple fixed sight and were taught to aim for the belt buckle with a lot of these rifles. Range sorted out whether it landed in the chest or the belly of the enemy. Now take this rifle, chop the stock into a sporter, use some to small bullets, and sell it as a cheap deer rifle. Now you have a rifle everyone thinks is junk because it patterns 12" high at 50 yards with no way to adjust. It was even worse if it had a cut down gain twist barrel.

[Multigunner]

I have read where the Italians believed in a simple fixed sight and were taught to aim for the belt buckle with a lot of these rifles. Range sorted out whether it landed in the chest or the belly of the enemy. Now take this rifle, chop the stock into a sporter, use some to small bullets, and sell it as a cheap deer rifle. Now you have a rifle everyone thinks is junk because it patterns 12" high at 50 yards with no way to adjust. It was even worse if it had a cut down gain twist barrel.

During or just before WW1 the British had intended to produce a simplified Enfield intended for Volunteer rifle men. One feature of the rifle was a simple fixed large diameter aperture sight set for 600 yards.
The plan never got off the ground.
Both the Italians and the Japanese later built simplified short rifles with fixed sights, perhaps they got the idea from the British.

Adjustable rear sights are fairly labor , or machine time, intensive, and often caused production bottle necks.
The No.4 MkI* with L sight is an example of a simplified rear sight intended to temporarily relieve a production bottle neck.

[gnoahhh]

Thanks guys. I guess a set of dies and a mold is in my future, as he is hellbent on wringing it out. I told him now is as good a time as any to learn bullet casting and handloading!

[MtGun44]

Norma 6.5 Carcano ammo is junk, it uses .264 bullets and is good for 20+ inches at 100 yds
when the same rifle, same day, same shooter shot VERY bad hangfiring Italian surplus into
about 4" at 100 yds. I have bought some .268 Hornady jbullets but not yet had time to test
them.

Don't waste your money on that expensive and useless Norma ammo. I think it is a great
part of why they are thought to be inaccurate - for decades Norma was the only ammo available
and it is pure worthless.

Bill

[Cactus Farmer]

There is Serbian ammo from Prvi Partizan in 6.5 Carcano that is quite good shooting ammo.Their brass is top shelf too IMHO. .268 bullets are available and are the answer for the oversized bores.
I also converted one to 7.62x39 as the bore on it was junk. AK ammo is available and reloadable too if you feel the need. I shoot the steel HP Russian stuff for rabbits and varmits. Forged the bolt handle and fitted a peep sight. As accurate as I ever needed for critters. Cast boolits are in the works soon. There are several brands of brass with boxer primers and I used a .308 tube for ease of boolit selection. The clips are getting scarce and pricey so take care of them. The WWI brass ones are nice but a bit flimzy.

[SawmillJack]

I shoot M91 model with NOE 145Gr's and it's great with 11.3Gr of 2400.On a good day this combo is just as accurate as Swiss Model 1911.

Bad part-sights are s@#$%.They take a lot of time to get use to and they are not made for target shooting.

What does NOE mean? I just bought 2 of these rifles on Gun Broker a couple months ago. I got a pretty nice little sporterized 6.5 for $28. If I could have got out of the $25 shipping charge it would have been just like 1971 when I bought one in pristine condition for $20. Anyways I'm trying to find a bullet mold now.

[ukrifleman]

What does NOE mean? I just bought 2 of these rifles on Gun Broker a couple months ago. I got a pretty nice little sporterized 6.5 for $28. If I could have got out of the $25 shipping charge it would have been just like 1971 when I bought one in pristine condition for $20. Anyways I'm trying to find a bullet mold now.

NOE is the name of a bullet mould manufacturer, log on to www.noebulletmolds.com to see their range of moulds.

ukrifleman

[Donor8x56r]

I had my hands on couple of boxes of Prvi ammo in 6.5x52 but bullets where .264.
I had to take it apart to get brass.

[mikeym1a]

They are great. Mine shoots 2 MOA when I do my bit using cast.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Roo%20trip%2010/IMG_0001.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/JeffinNZ/media/Roo%20trip%2010/IMG_0001.jpg.html)
Narly looking varmint in that photo. Do you eat them? How do you prepare them? How do they taste?

:grin: