Surplus Rifles

[waksupi]

I don't know if you other guys ever scroll down to the bottom of the opening page here. If you haven't, there is a link to the Surplus Rifles site. If you are a milsurp nut like many of us, it is a great reference page. Take a look. I'll have to snoop the other links down there, also.

[Shepherd2]

I usually check out Surplus Rifles a couple times a week. There is a lot of good techincal information about milsurps available there. When I have a problem or a question I head there first. The forums are kind of so-so but still yield some good info.

[brimic]

Its not a bad site for sure, though I've seen a few technical errors published on the site.

[Bob S]

Boy, that's an understatement! I see one guy in particular that keeps recommending loads that are beyond the maximum listed loads in my manuals. The amount of mis-and dis-information on the internet is really scary. Information exchange in my "newbie" days was done on the range, and the guys we listened to were the guys who were shooting the best scores and winning the matches. They had some credentials and it was considered "safe" to figure that they knew what they were talking about. These days on the web, it is difficult for a newbie to know who to listen to ... with the total anonymity offered on the web, the "mentor" may be someone who knows even less and may even be outright dangerous. Particularly when everyone has to have a "cute" (or grossly disgusting) "handle", you just don't know who is posting or what his/her credentials are. One site that I frequent asks that members use their real name or an identifiable variation. I'm all for that.

Unfortunately, in an open forum environment, there is more bad information on the internet than good information, and you have to know something to start with to be able to tell the difference. Rumors and exagerations get repeated and compounded and presented as fact. There are exceptions, of course. This place is one of them ... thankfully.

RANT Mode <OFF>

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[jethrow strait]

C'mon Bob, lighten up! I'd enjoy your posts(cept this last one)immensely, even if you were a no-good n'er do well SOB(which, of course, you are not). But have to admit, it aint quite like the military; you just don't know who to salute. Sift and winnow, as they say but don't do, at those medieval ivory towers called universities. Once you accept that this master species of ours that purports to rule the world aint worth a ****, but that life is too short to by cynical about it, everything becomes real easy.------jethrow

[waksupi]

Bob, I don't look at the recommended loads in the manuals much. In most of my rifles, I'm shooting quite a bit beyond thier recommendations, with no pressure signs, and good accuracy. I can't think of any load in the Lyman manual I haven't went beyond, except for the .223. Still working on that one. I know I've see other loads posted here that are beyond the manuals, posted by experienced shooters. The manuals will keep a green horn out of trouble, until they can learn the ins and outs. If I was shooting jacketed bullets to thier maximum potential, yes, I want several manuals to consult. For the most part, the accuracy and bullet strength will restrict us with cast bullets, before nasty pressures are reached. Not to say some of my cast loads don't show pressure signs at times, but that is part of knowing when to back off of the load. At least when posters put a hot load on here, they will TELL everyone, "Don't do this"!

[KCSO]

Bob

With jacketed bullets I am a moderate and always start 10% below book. The problem is which book. My Lyman cast bullet manual is worthless for hunting loads. The have no reccommended load for 30-40 that even comes close to 2000 fps. I have loading manuals from 1945 to present and it is interesting to me how bad our guns have gotten. Using 30-40 for example In 1945 you were cautioned not to exceed 45,000 PSI in the Krag. The newest Lyman manual just about says don't shoot this, they have dropped to 35,000 fps and then offer no loads that even approach this. Would I recommend more than a manual load in a good Krag ??? This is why I get pretty general when I say I am using IMR 4895 and pushing a 220 bullet at 2000 fps. It's up to you to fill in the details. For most of the surplus rifles I shoot the manuals are a big blank. Using Lyman again..
7.65 Argie, 303, 30-40 7.7, 75. Swiss " wide variations in bore and groove exist" and then you get a 1/2 dozen loads that they won't even list pressure on. On in the Argie I know that Norma loads the 150 condom load to 2900 fps from a 24" bbl. and they say this load is safe for ALL rifles in good condition. But Lyman thinks that 1700 with a 150 gr. cast load is tops???

I don't agree with everything I read ANYWHERE, but I have found some good info at Surplus Rifles. Cavet Emptor??? I have a letter from Elmer Keith about loading for a Marlin 45-70 and 1886 Winchester and I'll gurantee that his loads will curl your hair. I quit 5 grains lower than his max.

[Jumptrap]

I have never had any problems with starting loads listed in any of the manuals...and yes Virginia, I've been at this for close to 30 years.....and have gone well beyond what was listed in various guns.

If a person feels compelled to follow the manuals religiously, that is their perogative.

However, to accept the load manuals as Tablets from God carried off the mountain by the prophet Lyman, is ridiculous. "And God said, Thou shalt not exceed 22 grains of Holy 2400 in thy 44 magnum, lest thy penis shrivel up, thy camels die, and your pistol becometh a chrome 32 pimp gun with faketh pearly grips."

[Bret4207]

I agree with Bob. The grrenhorn might not know enough to take any data with a grain of salt and exceed safe limits. Just because we, the experienced loaders, exceed the books here and there doesn't mean we would recommend that someone just starting and with an unknown weapon should do the same.

[brimic]

The problem is, for some people if something is on the internet, its probably gospel truth. I actually got into an argument with a guy once because he insisted that the windage adjustment on the 03A3 rifle was 4 minutes per click because that's what it said on Surplus rifles, and that my opinion that it was roughly 1 minute per click wasn't to be trusted because I wasn't an expert, but just one of those silly high power shooters that has owned a 03a3 for several years and has actually shot it in several matches. I ended up having to prove my position mathematically, at which point he accepted what I had to say. I don't know why I wasted my time, maybe it was more for my ego than for his benifit.


It scares me that someone would argue something that they know nothing about on somehting relatiely minor when more serious misinformation is present on the site. :mad:

[jh45gun]

However, to accept the load manuals as Tablets from God carried off the mountain by the prophet Lyman, is ridiculous. "And God said, Thou shalt not exceed 22 grains of Holy 2400 in thy 44 magnum, lest thy penis shrivel up, thy camels die, and your pistol becometh a chrome 32 pimp gun with faketh pearly grips."

Bummer! :)

[Jumptrap]

However, to accept the load manuals as Tablets from God carried off the mountain by the prophet Lyman, is ridiculous. "And God said, Thou shalt not exceed 22 grains of Holy 2400 in thy 44 magnum, lest thy penis shrivel up, thy camels die, and your pistol becometh a chrome 32 pimp gun with faketh pearly grips."

Bummer! :)

and all the choir said; Amen!

[Four Fingers of Death]

I've loaded oodles of 'Elmers' as I call them and it's a good load. Apparently the 2400 out now is a bit hotter, so I've been told. Is this the case? I have been getting by on my stock of 2400 which is about 10years old now. Alliant powders are back on the market in Australia after a longgggggggg absence. 2400 and 296 are my favourites in my 44s. That Winchester load with 296 (25Gns from memory) is a real hoot. Shoot it on a cold morning and it feels like getting the cane at school.

I once loaded up my 586 with 158Gn RCBS Keith SWCs in front of 2400 (I think). I must have read across the wrong line on the Lee auto disk powder measure and ended up with a huge overload. Boy, it kicked like a mule, but the group was tiny, virtually the smallest group ever fired from the revolver. The primers were pretty flat and I thought that I had better quit and check the load manual before I shot any more. Boy, they were about 35-40% over max recommended. Lucky to still be here in one piece (well I lost a finger, but that don't hardly count, it wasn't while shooting or reloading).