Older RCBS 5-10 Powder Scale - Zero ?

[DoctorBill]

I have an old RCBS-OHAUS 5-10 Powder Scale that I picked up in an
Estate Sale about 5 years ago. Seems in good shape except for one thing....

http://s19.postimg.org/qpmqmivc3/My_RCBS_5_10_Scale.jpg

I am giving it to my son, along with a reloading setup that I accumulated,
for Christmas to try to get him into reloading.

Most scales have some sort of zeroing setup.

As far as I can see, this RCBS scale has none !
I downloaded the Instruction Manual and it has a section on Zeroing that
DOES NOT tell one HOW to zero it ! It just says to zero it by raising or lowering
the foot screw ! What if that doesn't do it ? Incredible.

If anyone has this thing, can you explain how one zeros it apart from maybe
sticking small pieces of Scotch Tape to the heavy end to balance it out ?

I can't believe OHAUS would put out a Balance w/o a Zeroing screw or weight....

DoctorBill

[billyb]

set every thing to zero on the beam then turn the foot until the beam pointer points to zero. BILL

[DoctorBill]

I tried doing that and the Pointer does not move to the zero mark -
hardly moves at all relative to the marks.

I notice that the pan bottom rattles - obviously has weights inside it.

This is an old scale - I wonder if I unscrew the pan, remove some of
whatever is in there and then add perhaps some sand grains until it
zeros, then put it all back together. i.e. re-balance it.....

It just strikes me odd not to have a zeroing screw/weight as most
scales do. Otherwise it seems like a nice scale.

DoctorBill

[jdjax64]

You have it set for ten grains in you picture, so after you move the weight to zero you can screw the round foot in or out to zero it

[jdjax64]

i have the same scale you do not need to unscrew the pan

[billyb]

I have the 10-10 it has lead shot in the bottom of the pan holder. I don't think you need to mess with it. I would call RCBS and tell them you would like to have your scale recalibrated. I had mine done, they will give you a return number and the address to ship the scale to. Mine was new when it came back. Bill

[1066]

The 5-10 is a really nice scale - In fact, one of the best, you will be pleased you made the effort once you have it sorted.
My guess is that you have a replacement pan. All pans are different weights and you will need to do a proper zero to get it to balance. This is not difficult if you go about it step by step.

To set this up you will need to stand it on a firm level surface and wind the foot about half way in/out so you have a some travel either way.

Now make sure you have the poises set to zero - it looks correct in our photo.

Undo the screw in the bottom of the pan support, this will release a small container of lead shot. Tip the shot into the pan, screw the container back together and hang it back on the scale. Place the pan with the shot on the scale, you should now be in the same position that you were in before you started except the shot in now in the pan not the container. Now remove the shot, one piece at a time until the arm comes into balance. One you are happy you have a good balance and it will repeat every time you remove and replace the pan, return the shot to the container and screw it together - you're done.

Check your handy work with a set of checkweights - failing that find a couple of good quality bullets of known weight, I find something like Berger bullets are within a couple of 10th of a grain of what they state on the box.

RCBS stopped making the 5-10 several years ago - It has exactly the same knife edge/floating agate bearings and beam with the micrometre poise system as the 10/10 scale, it also has the same approach to weight spring under the beam.

I've made a couple of videos that might help - the first one shows a tuned 5-10 in action, the second one shows how to zero the pan weights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVtYglAd9Dc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOKJxe0FUTk

[DoctorBill]

Thanks for the help guys.

As always, one gets many different and diverse opinions !

I will pick one and go from there !

DoctorBill

[Mohavedog]

DoctorBill - I have had the same scale for many years. It is a good scale. The zero setting your pic shows is correct and should allow the scale to be zeroed by adjusting the foot. I'm thinking you have a problem with the magnetic damper that runs through the slot on the pointer end. Does the damper center in the slot without touching either side of the slot? If not, that could be the problem. Somewhere in it's history maybe the damper got bent over to where it rubs hard on one side of the slot. The damper must be free to move without restriction.

[DoctorBill]

Whoa ! Now I understand !

When I bought all that reloading stuff at an Estate Sale (probably $1,000 worth for $140 !),
there were three reloading scales in a box.

One is this RCBS/OHAUS 5-10, one is a HORNADY (Pacific) scale, the third is an OHAUS scale.
There were two 'pans' and two 'dishes' plus a third 'dish'.

http://s19.postimg.org/k4nsrzjmr/Three_Scales.jpg

Long story short - the two swinging pans and two of the 'dishes' look identical to the one in
the photo in my first post. I tried different combinations and it is obvious they are the RCBS
components. One set is too light (arm pointer down) and one is too heavy (arm pointer up).

All three scales have different major and minor grain sliders or rotators (on this one).

I am assuming both pans and dishes were for the RCBS/OHAUS and the OHAUS scales.

Since neither will zero (almost - but not quite there), I'm thinking that maybe dirt is causing this.

I will therefore blow this Scale off with my compressor and wipe it down with a dusting cloth.
I suspect that a dab of my wife's nail polish would make the light one what it needs to be.
Close enough for Government work.......

I'll be back......have to go turn my air compressor on.

DoctorBill

[1066]

I think you've crack it DrBill. The Harnady scale has a rather cheap wire loop and an aluminium dish with a little square handle, both the other scales are made by Ohaus and may well have identical pans, brass colored with round handles, and teardrop shaped pan supports. You now have just four possible combinations to try. Set all poises to zero and your adjuster foot at half travel, find the pan and pan support that gives you the nearest to zero balance then adjust the rest out by raising or lowering the foot.

[DoctorBill]

OK....here's what I've determined with a digital scale I have from Harbor Freight - using GRAMS (g).

Pan Holder - A 18.8 grams Pan Holder - B 24.0 grams ( A - left......B - right side picture. )

Pan - A 9.5 grams Pan - B 9.3 grams. Both pans and pan holders look absolutely identical

28.1 g, 28.3 g, 33.3 g, 33.5 g combinations. None worked too heavy or too light.

Up down would not affect the pointer.

http://s19.postimg.org/5b9578bvn/Up_and_Down.jpg

Even though it jiggles like it is about to move, I think it is "pegged".

http://s19.postimg.org/86qtru59f/Mag_Dampener.jpg

So I took the lightest Combo and just added paper clips, and cut pieces of paper until
it read center (zero). 33.3 gram total.

ONLY THEN would the up/down screw center the pointer !

The up/down screw only works on mine in a range of just a few grains, yet
the 33.3 gram empty pan holder - pan combo didn't work alone !

So, I am concluding that ~ 0.05 gram difference can throw it full off up or down.
It is quite sensitive !

The Magnetic Damper is close to the back side but does not touch the frame.
Can't affect it's position except maybe by bending the copper dampening plate forward.

I guess it is working now. It is just that no pan holder - pan combination gets me to
the equal balance point (zero).

So I guess I will have to either add some weight to the lighter combo or
add weight to the far left slider bar for the heavier combo (small piece of metal?).

DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

The "Final Solution" to this problem.

The 'heavy' Pan Holder / Pan combo and a small counter weight.

http://s19.postimg.org/ijd4dwysj/My_Fix.jpg

I'll paint it Black when the glue sets. Just for the grins of it.

Not Rocket Science - just a Pan Holder/Pan that doesn't match....

I tried to use a cut piece of paper clip. That's when I found out just how powerful
the Magnets are inside that slot in the end ! ! !
Couldn't get a piece of paper clip anywhere near that slot w/o it being sucked in.

A drop of Super Glue to hold it. Any fine adjustments will be with Finger Nail Polish
on the underside of the bar.

Thanks for the help and suggestions, guys ! I appreciate it !

DoctorBill

PS - that Estate Sale stuff was probably just mismatched, thrown together, accumulated
reloading paraphernalia acquired over a lifetime of the "Old Man". All of our fates probably.

[1066]

Good result then DrBill, you're correct, these are sensitive scales. When in good working order they will easily detect a single kernel of Varget powder. Your fix is fine, it's just the same a removing shot from the weight pan.

The damper is a little close to the back magnet, I can see this is because the whole of the beam sits that way. This is often because the beam is slightly bent. If that is the case it can be straightened by gentle thumb pressure but be careful, they are brittle. You could also try swapping the agate bearings round. They are under the little silver plates and can easily be removed. They sit on a raised rounded pad and should be free to wobble about, they are often not quite the same so swapping the left one to the other side might be enough to centralise the beam/damper. While you're in there a good polish/clean will increase sensitivity.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/allan1066/th_505scales.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/allan1066/media/505scales.jpg.html)

[BCB]

The "Final Solution" to this problem.

The 'heavy' Pan Holder / Pan combo and a small counter weight.

http://s19.postimg.org/ijd4dwysj/My_Fix.jpg

I'll paint it Black when the glue sets. Just for the grins of it.

Not Rocket Science - just a Pan Holder/Pan that doesn't match....

I tried to use a cut piece of paper clip. That's when I found out just how powerful
the Magnets are inside that slot in the end ! ! !
Couldn't get a piece of paper clip anywhere near that slot w/o it being sucked in.

A drop of Super Glue to hold it. Any fine adjustments will be with Finger Nail Polish
on the underside of the bar.

Thanks for the help and suggestions, guys ! I appreciate it !

DoctorBill

PS - that Estate Sale stuff was probably just mismatched, thrown together, accumulated
reloading paraphernalia acquired over a lifetime of the "Old Man". All of our fates probably.


Although that may be a very innovative repair, there is still something wrong with that scale…

Assuming the scale is on a level or near level surface...

I would set the front adjustment stand in the middle and then turn the dial that adds grains and tenth grains until the scale zeros…

I would then note that weight and remove that much ballast from the pan holder…

That scale should zero without super glue and solder…

Good-luck…BCB

[EDG]

You just zero the RCBS/OHAUS types by adding and removing shot in the pan holder. If you cannot get it to work you cut a shot in half.

The Pacific/Hornady is the same as a Bair too. You adjust those by unlocking and moving the two nuts on the right end of the beam.