Need advice on buying Enfield No4 for cast boolit shooting

[CENTEX BILL]

I am in the process of collecting the major battle rifles of WWII and plan to shoot cast boolits in them.
I am now searching for a Enfield No4. I have a lead on a Savage 1943 manufactured No4 (US PROPERTY marked) with matching numbers and a good bore. It apparently has a 2 groove barrel. How would this shoot cast boolits?

What would a reasonable price be for such a rifle. Appreciation in advance for your input.

Centex Bill

[Bad Ass Wallace]

The 2 grove will shoot the Lyman 311284 very well with 33-35gns 3031!

[JeffinNZ]

Two groove LE's are good shooters. As a rule they are a lot more generous in the groove than the 5 groove barrels. This was done to help dissipate pressure as the two groove barrel has a whole lot more bore than groove for the bullet to swage down. My .303 Pygmy wears a 2 groover and it measures .317 at the fattest point. A shoot .3165 boolits down it and they do very well. I recommend a bore riding boolit like the NOE 316 299.

[Multigunner]

My Savage two groove handles J-word bullets far better than I would have expected, haven't tried it with cast boolits yet.
I don't think you can go wrong with a Savage so long as its in decent condition.
A Savage with a two groove bore is most likely a No.4 MkI* with bolt release being the simplified opening in the bolt head track.
While I would prefer the earlier bolt release plunger at the rear of the track, the MkI* action bodies are said to be a bit stronger.

[curator]

I hate to be the "wet blanket" but 2-groove Lee Enfields need a lot of experimenting to get them to shoot lead boolits decently. Read this guy's article and it will give you an idea of what it takes.
http://www.303british.com/id37.html
Those 2-groovers have a large throat and two, deep but narrow grooves to guide the projectile. A lot of bullet-metal gets displaced when bullet meets bore made up of >80% lands, and only <20% grooves. This is not conducive to accuracy. Not to mention the groove diameter/throat size almost demands a custom mould to get boolits of the correct diameter. This kind of effort is OK if you have the gun and want it to shoot well, but rather like buying a "hair-shirt" to experience discomfort. Even with J-word projectiles, they can be extremely fussy. If you are serious about getting a No4 Lee Enfield for cast boolit shooting, I suggest you look around for a nice No.4Mk2 rifle. These were made post-war, did not see a lot of use and generally have good bores and are properly "stocked-up." I have several war-time Savage/Stevens No.4Mk1* rifles and they are nice guns. However none of them can shoot as accurately with "off-the-shelf" components as My Faz No.4Mk2 made in 1955.

[Bloodman14]

Grab the Savage and some 316299s, and start with 3031, H4350, and H4831. Load 45 grs to start, and get/make some Ben's Red.

[Hardcast416taylor]

The last #4 Mk2`s I had the misfortune to buy online looked like they had been sitting in a damp warehouse with about 5 tons of salt for about 5 years. The bores were pitted terribly as well as surface rust and pitting on the other surfaces. The wood resembles a hunk of wood dragged behind a truck on a gravel road for several miles. Century Arms sold me these "Gems"! Myself, I would have to physically examine a #4 Mk2 before I would think about getting another.Robert

[Hip's Ax]

Be certain to take head space and bolt head number into account. If the head space is too large for the rife to be safe then the bolt head has to be changed to a higher number. Currently the only easy to buy size is the smallest, zero. You either need to find and buy the right size bolt head or pay a gunsmith to shim the one you have. Last time I had this done it cost me $140 for a bolt head shim job and to improve ejection (This was a 7.62 Ishapore number 1) and that was a dozen years ago. The only other option is to befriend 303 Guy here on CB and follow his advice. Hope this helps.

[robertbank]

I hate to be the "wet blanket" but 2-groove Lee Enfields need a lot of experimenting to get them to shoot lead boolits decently. Read this guy's article and it will give you an idea of what it takes.
http://www.303british.com/id37.html
Those 2-groovers have a large throat and two, deep but narrow grooves to guide the projectile. A lot of bullet-metal gets displaced when bullet meets bore made up of >80% lands, and only <20% grooves. This is not conducive to accuracy. Not to mention the groove diameter/throat size almost demands a custom mould to get boolits of the correct diameter. This kind of effort is OK if you have the gun and want it to shoot well, but rather like buying a "hair-shirt" to experience discomfort. Even with J-word projectiles, they can be extremely fussy. If you are serious about getting a No4 Lee Enfield for cast boolit shooting, I suggest you look around for a nice No.4Mk2 rifle. These were made post-war, did not see a lot of use and generally have good bores and are properly "stocked-up." I have several war-time Savage/Stevens No.4Mk1* rifles and they are nice guns. However none of them can shoot as accurately with "off-the-shelf" components as My Faz No.4Mk2 made in 1955.

What he said.

See if you can pick up a Longbranch made in 1950. You should be able to pick one up off of Gunbrokers. Up here they go for around $500 in VG condition. Back in the day we could get one for $9.95 buy that was then and this is now.

23 Gr of 4227 under a Lyman 314299 sized .313 should produce good results.

Take Care

Bob

[BruceB]

A couple years ago, I bought an AS-NEW 1943 Long Branch #4 Mk1* rifle in Reno NV for under $300. It has the two-groove barrel, which holds no particular fears for me. Cobbmtnmac (who definitely KNOWS) calls it "museum quality", which is quite a compliment on its condition.

There is also a new 1955 Fazakerly #4 Mk2 in my rack, with a five-groove barrel. Beside these two gorgeous and untouched rifles, there's also a four-cavity NOE 316299 mould on hand. For additional research, I have 311299 and 314299 from Lyman.... just in case things get boring with the 316 mould.

If I EVER get back to active casting and shooting, this will be a high-priority project.... to compare the cast-bullet results from NEW barrels with the 2- and 5-groove systems.

Somewhere, I've hidden a no-gunsmithing scope mount for the #4 Rifle, too. I tried it on the '55 Faz rifle, where it worked quite well. Seems like I just like these rifles the way they were issued, but for research.... why not?

If I have trouble with grouping results in these rifles, I may run parallel tests with a scope mounted just for kicks. ( There's a 36X Tasco target scope hiding somewhere here, as well as a 6-24X and a K10 Weaver all currently languishing in disuse.... one of those should work for fifty yards, or even a hundred.... hmmm?)

I've had a life-long love affair with the #4 Rifles, with a bit of dalliance with the #5 Carbine before my handloading days. Just like a deepwoods redneck family, I think my #4s will forgive my transgressions with their sister.... it's all "in the family", as it were!

These are truly excellent rifles, and I'm VERY pleased to see the attention they're getting these days.

[robertbank]

Bruce my eyes drove me to a scope. The SK mount for #4 rifle is a much better design then what they used in the sniper versions back in the day. My LB is the five groove version. To say I was pleased with my results with cast is a gross understatement. With the ladder rear sight and my eyes I had a hard time holding paper at 100 yards. May take it out tomorrow just for fun.

I had no luck with a #5 but that may have been that particular gun. Shot jacketed great but would not perform with cast so I let her go.

Take Care

Bob