XDs Recall

[44MAG#1]

Talked to a nice lady today about the guns.
I got a generic answer that the process of finding a suitable solution is in the final stages of testing.
In other words they are still pounding Sand down a rat hole at this time.
I asked if they had a timeframe on when they would just say "enough time has passed and we need to do something different for our customers and try to make it right" if they can't come up with a fix in a reasonable time frame and got the run around.
I guess we are just hung out to dry until they get that rat hole filled.
Just generic answers and a song and dance routine that would shame a Las Vegas stage show.
Oh well. I will give them some more time like I said I would.

[cwheel]

I guess if it gets that long winded, no solution in sight, I'd let them keep mine for a nice new range officer in trade. Not going to do the same thing for CCW use, but it would end the problem and send me off for a new Glock to take it's place. Because of the ATF laws and the necessary 4473, brady check, that isn't going to happen either. I think you have the idea 44mag#1, there are most likely 50,000 of us left out to dry on this one if they don't figure out something soon. Still not happy about the deception involved with the first recall notice, could have been a little more honest.
Chris

[44MAG#1]

I would be willing to pay the difference in price wholesale to wholesale or retail to retail and they can send the new gun to a dealer and I can get it registered there. I will pay the 10 buck registration fee myself too.
I don,t want anything free just a solution to a problem in a reasonable time frame.
They can keep their mags, holsters, shirts, gift cards, apologies and a host of other things just send me my gun or a gun.

[hhilljr]

I haven't called them, but their website has a FAQ section that shows a picture of a "fixed" XDS. They say if you can see a roll pin in the grip safety, its been corrected. I sure hope they have a fix and get mine back to me. I love the gun!

[300savage]

it would behoove them to achieve a speedy solution for at some point they will most likely be looking at a class action lawsuit.

[44MAG#1]

That pic could have been a congered up pic to just illustrate what the repaired guns will look like.
Common sense would tell me if they fixed that one the could have been fixing the others.
So how does one answer that?
What did some sage soul say about the "turnip truck"?

[cwheel]

You see, that is the deception part. One would believe that them showing a "fixed" XDS in the first recall post would lead us to believe that they have a solution and and the parts that they are installing it in recalled pistols. No one has reported even one being returned yet. Update on their FAQ shows the fix not worked out quite yet. If the "fix" has not been worked out yet, you can bet the parts to do so can't be there either. Who knows how large the stack of returned pistols is there at the factory. Would be somewhat reassuring to see that some were done and returned. Not yet. Still have to fall back to my original position though. I carry this thing pointed down at my butt, it's going to take much more time for a round from a AD into my butt to heal, rather have it back fixed, than have to heal from not fixed. If I have to buy something else to take it's place, so be it. In this area, I have to stand up for Springfield doing the right thing, getting them out of the hands of the public until made safe. Not often a car manufacture does a "voluntary" recall, more often than not, NTSB telling them to do it. Them doing the "right thing" doesn't make it convenient for those of us that own them and have spent good money buying them.

Chris

[44MAG#1]

No one is complaining about them getting them called in as far as I know.
My complaint is simple. Give us a time frame that is reasonable, if that time frame is missed start working on a solution of making it right to the customers, let the customers know that they will, stop stringing us along and have enough backbone to answer ones questions with a worthwhile answer with maybe a couple options as to what they will do for us if it lags along maybe another month without that elusive fix.
No one wants anyone to loose any body parts or have a divot taken out of their behind. Of course my behind isn't big enough to have a divot taken out.:razz::razz:

[oscarflytyer]

I would be willing to pay the difference in price wholesale to wholesale or retail to retail and they can send the new gun to a dealer and I can get it registered there. I will pay the 10 buck registration fee myself too.
I don,t want anything free just a solution to a problem in a reasonable time frame.
They can keep their mags, holsters, shirts, gift cards, apologies and a host of other things just send me my gun or a gun.

+1 - was thinking same thing... I will pay wholesale diff for another gun and send it to the dealer...

[cwheel]

I'm with you on that one 44MAG#1, not enough of me to have any extra parts to loose. I sure would hate to be in the sales staff at Springfield now. The hottest product on the 2012 shot show, all those costs setting up production, R&D staff time, huge expenses. Cost of the recall, another huge one. The thousands of pistols sitting at distributors warehouses that can't be sold, more sitting on the shelf of little mom and pop local gun shops that can't be sold. The negative PR from this would be hard to measure. Not having a fix in place, worse yet. Think that free 7 shot mag might redeem their image with some owners and future buyers, might end up a cheap investment in the long run. But the damage to the model and brand has been done, all of this could greatly effect future sales. I spent quite a bit of time on line before buying this pistol. Imagine future buyers finding all of this ??
Chris

[300savage]

i am curious as to what exactly the defect is as a good friend of mine just blew his index finger off at the knuckle with his xd 45 recently. he obviously should not have had his finger in front of the barrel, especially with a loaded round agreed , but he was breaking it down to clean it and is still not sure how it went off.

[44MAG#1]

He had a round in the chamber. He failed to thoroughly check the chamber before he pulled the go switch to let the slide slide off the frame.
No gun is foolproof.
That is positive proof. Is it not?

[cwheel]

Springfield just updated their FAQ page today. They full acknowledge that the XDs fix isn't in place, saying they are working on the problem. No fix figured out = proper parts for the repair not in place either, or being produced yet. Next update will be posted next Friday. I sure missed the number of pistols in this, not 50,000, more like up to almost 1/4 million pistols, just do the math with the SN range. What a PR nightmare for them, can't begin to imagine what it's going to cost.
Chris

[xacex]

SO does this affect all of the xds 45's and 9mm's? I almost pulled the trigger on one of those a couple months ago, but got the Glock 30 instead. Still liked how the xds felt.

[dragon813gt]

he obviously should not have had his finger in front of the barrel, especially with a loaded round agreed , but he was breaking it down to clean it and is still not sure how it went off.

He is completely at fault. Who breaks down a firearm without checking to see if it's loaded first? I'm anal enough that I check multiple times just to be sure.

[35remington]

While it's a popular pistol, the serial numbers are a bit misleading and should not be interpreted as a "count" by their number.

Doubt they've sold 250,000 of them yet as that would have outsold the Glock in all models by a considerable amount over the same time period. The first figure is more likely.

[300savage]

yes i totally agree that he pulled a bone headed stunt, however he also mentioned that he does not remember pulling the trigger.
he most likely did but with the timing of this recall i thought i would mention it is all.

[cwheel]

By the web page, it looks like all XDs pistols, 9mm and 45acp are called in for the recall. LGS operator says he has never sold one outside of the recall SN range, and he is a Springfield dealer, sells quite a few. Quarter million pistols seams high to me as well, but why would they jump around on a SN series on them, that doesn't make any sense either ??? I did guess one part of their logic right. On the new FAQ page they state it was more important to get these out of service ASAP even with the fix not in place for public safety.
Chris

[tomme boy]

It is a design flaw. They don't know how to fix it. Better to have the guns off the street and not shooting their owners than getting sued. It supposedly happens with people with really big hands. I'll bet everyone gets a refund.

[cwheel]

Even if it's only 50,000 pistols out there, I seriously doubt that Springfield is going to send out $35 million in checks if they can at all possibly avoid it. I could see how that could close their doors for good. Don't think any of us want to see that. Just fixed would be fine. I'm sure a fix is possible.
Chris

[idahoron]

I still have mine and I am still carrying it like I did before. I am even more careful now than before but I don't plan to send mine in until I see some of the dust settle. Ron

[LUCKYDAWG13]

just saw they update on friday http://www.springfieldrecall.com/Recall%20FAQ.asp

[HiVelocity]

I think they (Springfield) should compensate us that are affected by the recall. A couple factory mags would be nice. Hey, this is my everyday carry. This is like driving without insurance.

HV

[oscarflytyer]

I think they (Springfield) should compensate us that are affected by the recall. A couple factory mags would be nice. Hey, this is my everyday carry. This is like driving without insurance.

HV

Sadly, +1... Sold my (supposedly lessor) Taurus carry to turn the funds for the XDs - based on all the rave Profi/talking head reviews (wonder how much THEY earned to hawk the gun?!?). Cpl months later, a confiscation recall. I am carrying bricks for CCW - NOT - that I FULLY intend for the XDs to REPLACE. And now TOTALLY the opposite. Yeah, I am not real happy - DUH!

REALLY hope this issue corrects itself SOONER than LATER!!! Also know I am stuck w/ XDs - resale value is lower than whale stuff... Would REALLY like to see SPFLD make a tad of that up with a cpl 7 rd mags as compensation. And NO - it is NOT something for nothing! Dammit - it is compensation for the lose of investment and resale value due to a manufacturing defect (hey - you MOs over on the XD forum - who are eating your own - FIGURE THAT OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!). Otherwise - Spfld can go down in smouldering flames and not sure I could care.

[429421Cowboy]

Really makes me glad I went with a Kahr PM9 instead of the the XDS! Didn't see this coming from Springfield, but very glad not to be in the middle of it and sorry for anybody that got slammed by it.

[cwheel]

+ 1 on the free mags. At least the 7 rd. that they test it with after the mod. I had to drive 40 miles one way to drop the package off for return. Might pay for some of the fuel and time. Could help them with some of the PR problems that are a result of this problem. They do make some high quality products, just this one came back to bite them, and the buyers.
Chris

[mold maker]

Hey guys stop and think for a minute. Springfield has already been paid for those guns. Other than PR what do they care if it takes a week or a year. Their reputation on the XD is already POO. If they can figure a really cheap fix they will. If they return your money, they'll be giving you all the profit gained by the middle men. (that aint gonna happen) Some educated pencil pusher made a bad descission (most likely a bean counter) and nobody said NO to him. At this point most of you are of a mind that the boo boo is an easy fix that will mean minimal changes to the new designed gun. It very well may be that most of the working parts, or the whole thing will have to be replaced. They will take the cheapest route. The bean counters, will be the ones to satisfy, before anything will happen.

[nitrohuck]

I still don't get what the danger is...

"Accidental discharge", okay, how? From what? From just holding the gun with a round chambered? Were rounds discharging from holsters while the firearm was otherwise untouched? What were the conditions for AD's?

I've been having a blast with mine, and figured I would just wait until the smoke clears on this one and a reliable turnaround time is established. If I carry I do not normally carry with a round chambered anyway,

[44MAG#1]

I think moldmaker is correct almost entirely.
I think they will come up with a fix that they will have to modify the frame or slide that will require them hogging out a place in one or the other and will try to get the other parts to work in sync with it to get it to work.
That gun and its size were crafted for a certain family of parts working in sync to be able to get the gun as small as it is.
As long as they get a fix and it is safe they will then return the guns with the design said to work. That will free them from having to do any refunds unless someone that get a cobble/butcher job they will not tolerate and will raise enough trouble that they will replace that gun.
That way they will only have a few to replace because many will be so happy to get the gun back they will accept anything Springfield chooses to do.
That is what is so bad in a situation like this. There are always a few that will lay down and let anyone do anything to them and then ask for more. Then there are those that don't know the difference.
Companies know this and use it to their advantage.
My experience with Ruger a couple years ago and a WELL known revolversmith about 3 years ago taught me a very valuable lesson.
Those two experiences taught me to be the way I am.
Remember they are hiring and training people to help with the guns after the fix. Are those people temps that may not give a rats behind whether the fix is installed properly or are they conscientious and will try to do the job right?
First thing I am going to do is field strip the gun to check it if I get it back.
If it is mutilated in any fashion I am going to be worse than a tragic case of hemorrhoids for them.
First with a call to them and then to the BBB in their area.

[oscarflytyer]

+1, espec the tragic case part...

[cwheel]

I have to agree with moldmaker, most likely is right on the mark with this one. Friday, when they post the progress update, we will have a better indication. Free mag ?? forget that one. I, for one, am going to strip mine down after return and look for the change, look for the fix and the quality used to do it. If it's a *** repair, gona be time to start talking refund. I'll wait for the return to make my judgment on that one. One thing I agree on out the gate is it most certainly will come down to a bean counter's call to minimize the loss to Springfield. Has to be a huge loss already. My concern as a retail consumer, I paid $600 for a pistol that is now hardly worth the cost of the box it came in. Even fixed, this lemon perception on the used market isn't going away anytime soon. I bet with the PR from this one, my pistol lost more than 2/3rds of it's value in 2 weeks I had it, with very few rounds through it due to the defect. Mags, t shirts, what ever else will never off set this. With a $300 check for the value lost, might come close to coming out even. Permanent loss to the model and brand. Almost like being upside down in a home mortgage.
Chris

[oscarflytyer]

+100 - these recall guns are/will be nearly worthless on the used market, I suspect... Just sucks. I shelled out more for this one that a few other options - based basically on all the reviews I read, and also a cpl people who had one. Mine was only in my possession for about 2 months before the recall...

[HNSB]

I still don't get what the danger is...

"Accidental discharge", okay, how? From what? From just holding the gun with a round chambered? Were rounds discharging from holsters while the firearm was otherwise untouched? What were the conditions for AD's?

I've been having a blast with mine, and figured I would just wait until the smoke clears on this one and a reliable turnaround time is established. If I carry I do not normally carry with a round chambered anyway,

Apparently, without a trigger pull, it can discharge when the slide is released to chamber a round, or it can double fire when the trigger is pulled once.

[nitrohuck]

Apparently, without a trigger pull, it can discharge when the slide is released to chamber a round, or it can double fire when the trigger is pulled once.


Is there a single report of this having happened in the field?

[waksupi]

I guess this is why I am a real Luddite about firearms, and have never jumped on a new gun on the market. Initial reports are always glowing, and it takes 2-3 years for bugs to start showing up. After something has a long and proven track record, I will seriously look at a firearm. Up until that time, I won't even read a review of them.
I hope all of you guys are made whole with this.

[cwheel]

There is a youtube vid posted that shows the distinct double fire in action on a 45. No doubt, it's the real deal. In the vid, you can see the 2 cases, double muzzle flashes. Thing I haven't seen is a first hand report of a slam fire upon loading, not on the web at least. There is also a report of one of the 9mm going full auto with one trigger pull for a full mag. Just the report, no vid on that one. Don't know or can't verify the report on the 9mm.
Chris

[44MAG#1]

The trade in value or resale value is a concern of mine too.
Anyone that remembers the recall will not want one if it has been recalled.
We have lost probably a third of the resale value of the gun.
I like mine but will never feel the same about it now.
I have been carrying a micro compact in 45 Auto since mine is now living at Springfield for an undetermined length of time.
I don't even know if I will carry it when or if it gets back. It was my carry gun.
Waksupi has it right. Never get a new gun on the market.
This is if I am correct, the first recall Springfield has has.
Something had to go sour sometime or another. There isn't anything that lasts forever.
I see that every time I look in the mirror.

[cwheel]

If my local gun store owner is correct, it isn't some of the XDS's, it's all of them. The SN ranges posted represents all of them. Matter of opinion on how much of the value will be lost on the used market due to this recall. We can all agree though, that the loss will be a substantial of the value no matter how good the fix is. The real market in the future will dictate that. Most of the loss will be due to damage to the model and brand regardless of what else happens. LGS owner expects the dealer price to drop to bargain basement levels as they return to the market to unload the new ones. The worse damage will be done by the recall itself making it harder to sell the used ones and prices will fall. Has happened many times before, remember the gas tank in the Ford Pinto ??
Chris

[xacex]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42NtWHK3jgY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoog6QLwHUg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f79ufI0_NEc

What I could find on youtube. no runaways found.
I would buy one still after they fix the guns, and go back into production. Looks like I may have saved myself some money by waiting for them to get the bugs out.

[cwheel]

That first vid is the one someone processed in slow motion and showed the double fire clearly. The slow motion version is posted in the XD forum. Clearly shows the double muzzle flash with 2 cases in the air. The first vid link above is to the full speed version of that vid. Have to see it in slow motion to see the double fire clearly. Happens really fast. Another clue here is even in the full speed version, notice that there are only 4 pulls of the trigger on the 5 shot mag used for the vid. The next to the last shot is the double. This is done with a 45 version. Guess the factory is supposed to have at 1 of 9mm that does the full mag every time. Bet the vid of that never gets posted. I build 1911's from time to time and build parts aren't always in spec from the factory. One of the first things you do with a freshly built pistol is to "prove" the disconnector. Load 2 rounds in the mag and test fire the first round, remove the mag and see if only 1 round fired. I've had several go full auto when the disconnector was not fitted properly. Those 2 shots go so fast that you do have to check the mag to be sure only one fired. Most folks who are getting a double will have a hard time noticing it until reaching the end of the mag. If one was to have a full mag go full auto in a small pistol ( like the 9mm is reported to do ) would have a hard time holding on to it.
Chris

[Cmm_3940]

I just got my XDs back from Springfield and want to compare notes with everyone as the guns are returned.

First thing I did was field strip it. When I sent the gun back, it was CLEAN. It came back DIRTY. No other visible alterations without detail stripping it. The only external sign is the roll pin in the center of the grip safety like is shows on the web page.

Test fired with several different boolits and loads, about 20 rds total before I decided it needs closer examination. The gun feeds rounds fine, just as it did before. About one out of five trigger pulls, there is a dull anemic thunk and the striker is not released by the sear. Rounds are completely in battery when this occurs. Each time, I pulled the slide back about a quarter of an inch, just enough to reset the trigger, and the subsequent trigger pull resulted in a discharge. It's almost as if in trying to prevent double fires, they have now somehow achieved 80% fire. If this behavior persists after a detail strip and cleaning, I am going to be PISSED. But hey, they included a free 7 rd mag.

Chris

[44MAG#1]

Mine functioned fine and I have no complaints other than how they deceived the owners on the initial recall notice.
My understanding is any oil in the striker channel may cause a FTF.
Most recommend if a FTF happens take out the striker and thoroughly clean it and the channel.
That may stop the problem.

[cwheel]

Mine got back last Friday. Guess they made my personal deadline of returned by Thanksgiving. Upon inspection, saw mine wasn't test fired after the mod. Work was clean, so was the pistol, few new parts, the ramp and throat of the barrel were polished. Took it out Monday for 100 rounds and it worked flawlessly, no problems at all. Trigger is a little stiffer, but I like the way the trigger seams to have a shorter reset and a crisper let off. Others say the trigger will get better after breaking in, we will see about that. Got the free mag and a new manual with the gun, see in the manual there is some differences between the old and the new, but nothing major. Only real negative I see here is on Auction Arms and Gun Broker prices have fell on new pistols in the $50-100 range already. It will be interesting if these price decreases make it to the local gun shops asking prices. Any price decreases will roll down hill to those who sell used post-recall guns, just how much of a loss this will end up being is anyone's guess. Notice most of the dealers have separated the free 7 round mags from their returned pistols they have for sale to sell separately and make a few more bucks for their trouble. I guess if I didn't intend to keep this one, loss of value would matter more. I'm going to use mine for use as a CCW, the original reason for buying it. The loss of value won't matter to me until it comes time to replace it with something else. If the new ones are going out the door in the $450-$475 range now, will be interesting where the prices for the new ones end up, this will determine somewhat where the used ones sell. It's going to take a couple of years for the dust to settle on this one and then look it up in the Blue Book of Gun Values. Until then, I'm just going to use mine as intended. I predict that us that owned them pre-recall are going to take a hit that the free mag isn't going to come close to making up for.
Chris

[FergusonTO35]

My brother in law and sister bought a his n' hers in 9mm and .45. The recall came out like two days later. They dutifully sent them in, hopefully the pistols will be returned fixed right soon. As I was talking to them about it I thought about the ugly but 100% dependable Kel-Tec PF-9 on my belt. I guess sometimes cheaper is better sometimes! The XDS is a sweet little gun and if I encountered a bargain on one already fixed I would be tempted.

[cwheel]

I loved my PF-9 as well, but after 3 trips back to the factory for repairs, had to trade it off ( for the XDs 45 ) to get something more reliable. PF-9 had cracked a slide, cracked a frame, broken take down pins, and had function issues in the 3 years I had mine. Sure did carry easier though. All of those problems firing just 3 mags a month for practice. With the PF-9, reliability was always in doubt after all of the problems. Jury is still out on the XDs still, time will tell. Even after the recall the XDs is almost as accurate as my 1911's, with that short of a barrel, I'm impressed. The dishonest way Springfield started out with the recall still leaves a bad taste with me. In their defense, if I was them, I'd want as many of the defective pistols out of owners hands as soon as possible to prevent accidents and the legal action that would be sure to follow it. The loss of consumer confidence has decreased the value of these some, at least for now. This leaves the owners holding them with some sort of a value lost that the free mag comes up short on replacing. That's life I guess, looks like a quality fix, hope I can keep mine long enough for that not to matter.
Chris

[FergusonTO35]

I suspect my PF-9 has an easier life than most. It has never eaten a single round of factory ammo or even jacketed bullets. I bought the PF-9 new and have given it a steady diet of cast boolit reloads at .38 Special velocity (3.2 grains Bullseye + 122 grain LTC= 950 fps), which I think is the perfect power level for a pistol of this size. Needless to say if I did not reload I wouldn't have bought the PF-9.

[oscarflytyer]

Mine came back 18th. Took to range and dumped a full mag rapid fire. Worked fine. Then shot a few rounds to see. Everyone is complaining about the trigger upon return. I can't tell the diff on mine. Maybe I got lucky. And gun looked like it had been cleaned as well. I need to put more rounds through it to be completely comfortable with it. Deer season has been in the way of that right now...

I am still ticked at how they handled the recall, and the loss of value. As stated above, yes I wanted a 7 rd mag, but it in no way makes up for the way the recall was handled or the loss of value in the gun! Will still be interesting to see where this will all be in about 6-12 months when all the guns have been back and shot a good bit...

[cwheel]

I put another 200 rounds through mine, seams like the trigger is breaking in somewhat. A little stiffer than pre-recall, but better let off and better resetting after the shots are fired. Never a malfunction of any kind so far so going to place it back into service. The free 7 round works well, but is far to large to use CCW, it will end up as a range mag.
Chris

[Capt. Methane]

I've never jumped on the tupperware bandwagon, can't stand DAO/striker fire systems. But it sounds like SA has made good on the repair and even if the reputation of the XDs is slightly tarnished the values will recover. The Ruger Transfer-Bar and LCP recalls ring any bells on that?

Give it some time...

[FergusonTO35]

I agree. Pretty much all of Ruger's new autos have had recalls and they still sell like mad. If Springfield makes good on the repair and new guns don't have any problems I think they will do just fine.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

new update http://www.springfieldrecall.com/RecallUpdate.asp
if i dont receive my XDs buy christmas they got mine on 9/12
it will be my last springfield and i will go over to the Glock side
i have been looking at a Glock 19 real hard

[popper]

SIL got his & hers XDs 9 back, we put a couple hundred rounds through them, no problems so far. Haven't gotten mine back yet.