Thank you to the NRA.

[koehn,jim]

They have announced that they are getting ready for a legal challenge of SB 374 if it is signed by the Governor. If we get lucky they might throw out the first two laws as well. Just felt they deserved some atta boys.

[Bad Water Bill]

They have been a BIG help in us FINALLY getting CCW here in Illonois.

[9.3X62AL]

Nice, if true. But I'll believe it when I see it.

[Garyshome]

You need to move to a warmer climate! Maybe somewhere that they let you have all the STUFF you want!

[uscra112]

They have been a BIG help in us FINALLY getting CCW here in Illonois.

Bill, did you mean to attach a /sarc off/ html tag to that? It was the SAF that fought the lawsuits. NRA was AWOL until it looked like SAF might win.

[Bad Water Bill]

Bill, did you mean to attach a /sarc off/ html tag to that? It was the SAF that fought the lawsuits. NRA was AWOL until it looked like SAF might win.

They may have won a law suite where they were well paid.

In the many meetings and many protest parades I have participated in they have been AWOL.

I asked Valinda Rowe of Illinois Carry if they had helped in any way OTHER than that case to help us and the answer from her was a NO.

The N R A rep passed out his PERSONAL cell # if you needed a lawyer on 2A problems. Todd has been there with us in the legislature to see we got as good a law as was possible. When the law was passed he spent countless hours working with the I S P to get as good a deal as was possible in this state.

Todd is on I C EVERY day answering everyones questions and explaining many problems that came up.

Sorry I just checked my collection of STAFF & MARSHALLS hats and found one from several years ago in downtown Chiraq where there must have been AT LEAST 150 folks there counting Fr Phalger and his protester children.

[9.3X62AL]

You need to move to a warmer climate! Maybe somewhere that they let you have all the STUFF you want!

"Warm" isn't a problem here, but the Red Diaper Doper Babies sure as h--l are.

[Swamp Man]

"Warm" isn't a problem here, but the Red Diaper Doper Babies sure as h--l are.
Just tell the stoners if they vote for gun rights they get a free bag of weed. The gun right bills will pass so fast it will make your head spin.

[9.3X62AL]

Yeah.......like, totally, dude!

[Blacksmith]

The NRA is also working behind the scenes in the battle for 2nd rights in Maryland. We have multiple court cases in progress and more coming and the registered plaintiffs have acknowledged NRA's support. In some circumstances the mere mention of the initials NRA bring all kinds of bad press and pushes the wrong buttons in galvanizing the anti camp. Sometimes more can be accomplished behind the curtain, nothing to be seen here move along.

[9.3X62AL]

You make a salient point, Blacksmith. You all likely heard Bill Maher's brain leak on California, which included reference to NRA as meaning "nuts, racists, and a--ho--s". His lot can pound sand, AFAIC

[WallyM3]

When all these 2A defender groups get done with the current nickel/dime stuff, they can start on the 1968 GCA, thank you very much.

[Bad Water Bill]

When all these 2A defender groups get done with the current nickel/dime stuff, they can start on the 1968 GCA, thank you very much.

Coming from a state that has NEVER had to fight for CCW,own X type of guns or magazines you sir have no right to question us who have been in the trenches for years.

As far as YOUR nickle dime stuff, just what do you call Illinois FINALLY getting our CCW permits this year. That sir has had me marching many miles and attending many rallies all over my end of the state WITH N R A folks backing us all of the way.

What do you call my friend Otis Mc Donald finally being able to own a handgun in Chiraq?

In order to do ANYTHING about GCA 68 we have to change the makeup of the whole congress and POTUS.

Once that is accomplished and we have a REAL 2A friendly body to work with we will get things done.

I can go on all day listing the battles we have won and will continue to win in the next year or so but why bother.

Take this discussion to the pit for more as I do not want a months vacation for saying exactly how I feel in OUR TOWN.

[WallyM3]

No right to question?

Interesting.

We've had a few little runs at our freedoms (including, among other important things, speech), and have responded and prevailed.

I do confess to being a little prickly when told what rights I don't have. I never expected to hear it here.

[9.3X62AL]

I'm happy to say that Gov. Moonbeam vetoed SB 374, but did sign into law the lead ban on hunting as of 2019.

Wally, you have every right to question whatever you choose to and wherever you choose to do so, but those of us living behind Version 2.0 of the Iron Curtain get very tired of getting spoken down to by those in free states whose civil rights are far less trammelled upon. Such statements come off as gloating to many of us, and it pisses us off.

[Bad Water Bill]

Wally has a right to say whatever he wishes.

With his vast experience in keeping 2A alive I have as much confidence in what ever he has to say as BORERANCHER, BRUCE DRAKE or LOVE LIFE have in a cub scout telling them what to do in a live fire fight.

[WallyM3]

That's understandable, 9.3. (edit to add) and BWB.

But the assumption that we, in states that appear to have firearms freedom permanently and perpetually unchallenged, aren't beset with constant runs at those freedoms is incorrect. This year alone (IIRC), 4 bills were introduced that would have put Vermont in a markedly different posture. They were beaten back or withdrawn based on a telephone call campaign aimed at the State House. The little 250 acre, 260 member gun club from which I just stepped down as president has been in court up to and including the VT Supreme Court fighting back a host of suits designed to close the club over the last 9 years. This effort has (thus far) been accomplished by member funds alone, exceeding $300,000. Not bad for a bunch of blue collar shootists.

Maintaining our rights here in Vermont has not been a passive process, though it's understandable that others might have that impression.

So, while my trenches may look different than yours, I'm in them, and working on them, too.

Now you don't know me or my sense of humor, and that's one of the problems with internet communication. Perhaps an emoticon or two would have made clear my meaning. But if you reread my post with a bit more charity, you may find that what I'm attacking is the 1968 GCA, the root of most evil, and not my fellow warriors devoted to the preservation of our shared heritage and rights.

There's more, but that's enough expended on this. I did not set out to offend or denigrate any one or thing. Had I intended to...and why the **** would I?...it would have been in franker and more direct language. But that was not my intent.

[9.3X62AL]

Fair enough, Wally. 68 GCA was and is the root of all evil, or at least the majority of it. The Sullivan Act of 1911 in NYC was no day at the beach, either. I didn't for one moment form the belief that Vermont or any other freer state was free of incursions on civil rights. I know these azzhats are at work every waking moment to deny rights in this venue and many others. We as gun owners are in a similar position to black folk of the Deep South in the early- to mid-20th Century......our rights exist on paper, and perhaps in court, but not in fact. NRA needs to emulate the examples set by CORE and NAACP to cure this breach--agitate, irritate, litigate, demonstrate. This is a civil rights struggle, little different than 1954 Little Rock and 1960s Mississippi. NRA needs to call this fight what it is, and keep the pot stirred. Permanently.

[WallyM3]

I lived in NYC, too. (ugh) At least Sullivan ended at the edge of the Boroughs, though. Still, bad precedent.

I like your analogy with (other) civil rights; I'd not quite thought of it in those terms before, but that's an enlightening perspective.

Not one of the first 10 is more "inalienable" than any other.

Sometimes, the NRA is an enigma to me. Often they seem to adhere to the "art of the possible" when zeal is what is called for.

I haven't called them about. They wouldn't listen to a Cub Scout anyway, eh?

[Bad Water Bill]

Sorry if I stepped on your toes.

Check if you have an N R A rep in Vermont?

We are very fortunate to have Todd Vandermyde as ours.

He gets in down and dirty and helped get much of what we wanted thru the legislature then moved on to the State Police to help again.

Sometimes they sit there till asked by members like yourself to get the lead out and help.

I hope yours is at least as good as Todd.

Please keep all of us informed.

[WallyM3]

I've got pretty tough feet...and a large mouth to match it. I think we're all skittish and on the defensive about the subject of our gun rights (which we, at least, have identified, correctly, as fundamental) and have good reason; flare-ups are inevitable and frequently (as in this case) stimulate productive exchanges and new and rewarding associations.

(I wrote for a living so long that my prose has become stilted and boring, even to me. Plus, it's late here in Vermont...some where 'round about the Middle Ages, so I'll return when refreshed with recharged eloquence.)

Bill, your location puzzled me for a bit. I'm originally from the state that re-elects it's Felons to higher office upon release, Rhode Island. (LOL)

[MtGun44]

It is VERY important to recognize and articulate frequently that GUN RIGHTS are CIVIL RIGHTS.

IMO, the 2nd is extremely clear. "shall not be infringed" means exactly what it says. ZERO restrictions on the
the right to "keep and bear arms". IMO, a background check, or the requirement for a licensed dealer selling
guns, restrictions on gun acquisition or ownership in ANY way whatsoever are obviously against the original
intent of the founders that wrote the document. Buying ANY gun should be just as complex as buying a
carpenter's hammer. Any citizen should be free to carry ("bear") ANY firearm in ANY public place at any
time of his own chosing, concealed or not.

We need to steadily work to repeal or remove ALL gun laws.

I have spent my decades "in the trenches" and helped stop many bad laws, help pass
and write some good laws, and was closely involved in writing the training regulations
for CCW in KS, test, test questions, etc. after we got it done over evil Sebilius' (yes, the
same witch at HHS now) veto. The NRA was a very important factor in supporting us
over the years and successfully identifying when they could pour in the money and a
very professional, talented and hard working lobbyist to work with and for us for the
key few years when it would really make a difference. I have my issues with the NRA
at times, but they really are an important and powerful force for good.

Bill

[Bad Water Bill]

We come by our reputation DISHONESTLY.

6 out of the last Governors know where the "STEEL BAR HOTEL" Is. One still has 13 more years to go.

One of our congressmen will be going to FEDERAL prison next month for 2 years and when he gets out his wife goes in. OH yes his daddy is "THE REVEREND JESSE JACKSON.

i GAVE UP COUNTING AT 100 THE CHIRAQ city council that have called that hotel their home and more will soon be joining the list.

Our biggest shame is B H O (the man with no past life).

[Bzcraig]

You boys did a fine job of falling back and regrouping, made me proud! Don't think I would have been as wise as y'all were. [smilie=s:

[jcwit]

Our biggest shame is B H O (the man with no past life).

The man with no past life, SPOT ON. Love it!

[MtGun44]

He's got a past, but it is all fake.

Bill

[WallyM3]

He's got a past, but it is all fake.

Bill

So, too, is his present.

[9.3X62AL]

So, too, is his present.

Hear, hear.

[Bad Water Bill]

Well I am not sure if this is real but I am sure SNOPES will say it is a fake.

What say you

http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s720x720/1383392_10151773808723192_1846564339_n.jpg:oops:

Just got it from a fellow member.

[WallyM3]

I managed to falsify the DOB on my USGI ID card so I could get served when I was under age, so a student ID isn't all that impressive as a rock-solid document...even if real.

I think we need to comb the records in Mombasa. Perhaps we can find the legitimacy there.

[1Shirt]

Regardless of negative opinions about some factors of the NRA, without the NRA, we would be lucky to be in possession of a Daisy air riflel!
1Shirt!