Double ended GC?

[Blammer]

OK, I'm bored and brainstormin.

So I came up with this, a double ended Gas Checked 8mm boolit. I may rework the design a bit...

Tom, help if you want on the wt of this beast.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Cast%20boolits/8mmDBLendGC.jpg

[44man]

[smilie=w:[smilie=w::veryconfu

[Maven]

Blammer, It's an interesting design, but why dual GC's? Also, why are the driving bands of unequal width? As shown what do you estimate its weight will be when cast from WW or WW + 1% Sn? Lastly, any chance that you'd make it longer so that a 4th driving band could be incorporated? My congratulations on a different apporach to the 8mm CB!

[mag_01]

Hay Blammer keep cranking --- Good to see new thoughts applied to our shooting sport. Maybe you have something --- maybe you don't wont hurt to try. Keep us up to date on results and good luck. --- Mag_01



Wahhooo ----[smilie=1:[smilie=1:[smilie=1:

[Misfire99]

Looks sort of like a lead football to me. Should fly for a touch down at lest ;-}

[45nut]

same idea could be applied to any diameter if it flies. KISS principle?

[Adam10mm]

That is interesting. Keep me posted how that does. I'll bring popcorn.

[Blammer]

no particular reason the middle driving band is a diff width.

I have no idea on the estimated wt... don't have a way to calculate a formula or whatever for it. I'd like to find one.... I'd guess 150?

I was thinking about making it a bit longer, making 4 driving bands, 3 lube groves, and possibly incorporating a crimp groove on each end towards the end of the driving band. Might make for a good 32 spcl load for deer...

Everybody seems to like a good meplat for hunting, I'm just getting lazy and don't want to care what way I shove a boolit in the sizer with GC.. :)

[Tom Myers]

Blammer this is about as close as my software would draw it. the dimensions are not quite the same but needed to be changed a little to make it the same on either end

Tom

http://www.tmtpages.com/LinkSkyImages/blammer_DE_GC_124_gr_Sketch.gif

[Buckshot]

................That dual GC has been done. I can't recall any details except I've seen it before. Nor do I recall what was trying to be accomplished other then doubleing the price of the cast boolit :-)! So what are YOUR reasons (not that you HAVE to have a reason, ha!), for it's utility? The front GC would hit the leade in the rifle or forcing cone in a pistol first. Help alignment? Add a bit of 'gripping' up front?

Ole Deano Grennel was a whizzer of a bullet swager and he had swaged some GC's onto the front of various cast boolits and also swaged half jacketed slugs. Seems he had some odd unexplained asterisk looking holes in his targets on occasion. Seems the rifling naturally engraved the front GC as it passed through the barrel. As it exited the muzzle the gas would strip it off and it would part at the land engraving (stress risers) like a musket cap does when fired, and then fly off to make their unique holes in the paper:shock:

................Buckshot

[45nut]

wouldnt need to waste a check on each end,, but it would speed production i think,, just grab, apply a check without looking and run thru sizer.

Oh,,and Tom, I am , we are blessed to have you aboard as a master designer and professor to our budding designers.

There are many such examples on this forum's member list and I am grateful to them all.
Simple things we strive to attain in our journey down the river of shooting lead alloy, I would hope examples of teamwork and co-operation such as this will show us all what to "shoot for".

[GrizzLeeBear]

................Nor do I recall what was trying to be accomplished other then doubleing the price of the cast boolit :-)! So what are YOUR reasons (not that you HAVE to have a reason, ha!), for it's utility? The front GC would hit the leade in the rifle or forcing cone in a pistol first. Help alignment? Add a bit of 'gripping' up front?................Buckshot

I don't think he's talking about putting a gas check on both ends. Just making a boolit with a big meplat and a gas check on one end. The advantage of the double end design is that you don't have to worry about which end is up when running them through the sizer.
Neat idea, but given how WC boolits don't fly well past about 50 yards, I wonder how this design would do at farther ranges?

[Old Ironsights]

I think it's an interesting idea. Ok, so it's not a tangential ogive, but it can't fly much worse than a keith.

I wonder how that would work in a Levergun...

[Bret4207]

311440 twin. Call it the "Gladstone Gilded Mega Whomper" and it'll make millions!

[Adam10mm]

Tom Myers
Precision Ballistics and Records (http://www.tmtpages.com)

Price for the boolit designer software?

[Blammer]

thanks TOM! I'll pass on the algorithims till after I get the first part of the program/math problem written.

I'll be making my Excell run a bit harder now, and probably work it into my SED2 program...

No, I wasn't wanting to shove a GC on both ends, just one. It'd probably be one heck of a plinking load... Double the cost... LOL I have tears in my eyes from that.... (I wonder who here would pinch a penny to see lincoln cry?)

I don't see why it wouldn't fly as good as some of our 'soupcan' or bore riding designs for rifle bullets. But hey I could be wrong....

Hmm, 124gr's that would probably fit totally in the neck of the case and not poke out any...

sounds like a good option for a low noise no recoil squirrel/rabbit getter in the middle of deer season....

[mooman76]

It's a wad cutter for rifles!

[Tom Myers]

Freakshow,

The Bullet Design/Evaluation software is not yet ready for distribution. It is getting closer, but a program as complex as this is fraught with bugs and design problems. It has taken about 2 years to get this far and, when after decent help files have are completed, it should be ready for release.

This one design, where the bullet needs to be identical on each end, revealed some problems with the center of gravity and pressure calculations that need to be addressed, so that will also add to the time until release date.

Until such time as the program is ready, I will be glad to help anyone with bullet evaluation problems.

Please understand that I do not consider myself to be an expert in bullet design . What I hope to accomplish is to develop software that will allow a designer to enter values into a database and, with mathematically correct accuracy, draw, sketch, evaluate and store the design for instant retrieval and evaluation.

As to what the price will be, that has not yet been determined. It will depend on the demand and the support required for distribution. It will not be cheap, but hopefully can be priced so that those who are seriously into bullet design will consider it a worthwile investment.

Tom Myers

[Blammer]

glad I could "break it'' for you!

that was my job many a moon ago, to take software and run it hard and try to 'break it'.

:-D

[leftiye]

Blammer, it would make a heckuva truncated cone peestola boolit. Just bevel out the "front" gas check heel. Maybe add nother land. Sorry It's your design, just a thought.

Tom, maybe you could publish (here) some of these formulas? Maybe we could stickyfy the first one and add to it over time (45Nut?).

[Mk42gunner]

Why couldn't you try this idea out before getting a mold cut, by trimming the nose from a Loverin design? It seems to me that you could cut the bullet to whatever length you wanted as long as there were still lube grooves and drive bands available.

Seems reasonable to me,

Robert

[Larry Gibson]

Not a new concept at all. Many years back there was an article in one of the gun mags about making light weight GC'd WCs with a PB mold Like 359477. GCs (Lyman's work best as they're not flared) are placed on top of the furnace to stay warm and the mould is brought up to casting temperature. Then, with tweezers, place a GC in the front driving band in the mould with the open part of the GC facing the sprue plate. Close the mould blocks on the gc and cast the bullet. The GC'd driving band now becomes the base of the bullet and the actual base makes for a full caliber WC front of the bullet. I did a number of these for different .38/.357s and the generally shoot well out to 40-50 yards. Excellent way to make a regular mould more versatile. With a GC mould usnig Lyman GCs allows them to be popped off the cast bullet and used again. Then a crimp on GC can be put on the real base and you then have the double ended GC cast bullet as the new front will have the GC shank.

I also used the same technique with 6.5, .30, 8mm and .45 moulds for rifles. Velocity must be kept low because that old monster "RPM" raises its head quite early with the short WCs in fast twist rifles and bullets go zinging off into never never land. In rifles that feed from the magazine (Mausers mostly and others with controlled round feeding) there is a feeding problem. Most of my Mausers will feed from the right side if only a single cartridge with these short WCs is loaded at a time. Other than that if velocities are kept subsonic with small charges of Bullseye these GC'c WC bullets make for great small game and pest control loads around camp.

Larry Gibson