Marlin .357 woes..........

[centershot]

Frustration. The dictionary defines it as "Expecting accuracy while shooting 158 gr. cast bullets from a Marlin 1894 .357 carbine." Well, it seems that way, anyway. I know I'm not alone in my pursuit, others here and on other forums have expressed similar frustrations. What I don't understand is "Why?". 180 gr. cast bullets work great, as do 158 gr. jacketed bullets. From my results I know that the rifling (6-groove Ballard) will stabilize 158 gr. jacketed bullets at any reasonable velocity (800 to 1800 fps). I know that the rifling will also stabilize 180 gr. cast bullets at any reasonable velocity, up to around 1700 fps. It's not a "rifling thing". Hard or soft, this gun groups 158 gr. cast into 5" at 50 yds. Jacketed 158's go into a 1" jagged hole at the same range. ???????????????????? The bullets I am using are RNFP profile, both ACWW & WDWW. They cast at .360", I size to .358", the bore slugs .3562". 50-50 Alox & beeswax lube (Javelina). As I said, I have tried velocities from 800 to 1800 fps, powders were Bullseye, 231, Unique, Blue Dot, 2400. It's not that I haven't put some effort into this. No, I haven't tried gascheck bullets, the 180 grainers I shot were PB and were loaded to 1700 fps with good accuracy, don't see a need for GC's on the 158's, but might have to go that route eventually.

OK, range outing this AM.............well, I shot a 5 shot group at 50 yds., 3 shots into 1" and 2 more opens the group to 4". One of the fliers was the first shot, it hit 2" higher than point of aim. After checking that shot in the spotting scope I proceeded to shoot the other 4 without looking through the spotter again. I'm convinced that there is hope here, gonna' need to do more tinkering. Here's the load data so far: 158 gr. RNFP (actually 161 Gr.) cast of COWW and water dropped. As cast diameter is .360", bore slugs .3562". Pan lubed with Javelina 50-50 Alox-beeswax lube, bullets were not sized, they were shot as-cast. Loaded in W-W cases with CCI mag primers, 13.5 gr of #2400. Feeds and chambers flawlessly. No indications of excessive pressures.

I'm going to work the powder charge first, before I change lubes or play with bullet diameter. If anyone has a better plan, feel free to drop a note here! I'm off to tinker.................

[Ben]

Try the bullets lubed at .360 diameter ,- - - if they will chamber OK ? - - - with 13.0 grs. of 2400.

You say you're shooting jacketed and cast.
Are you testing your cast loads with a barrel that is 100% clean and free of copper fouling ?

What kind of dies are you reloading with ?

[centershot]

Ben, yes, I am careful to clean the bore so it is free of copper fouling. The 13.0 gr load of 2400 is next on my list, then 14.0, 14.5 and 15.0. If no success with that I'll start playing with sizer dies. I think I'm OK with 50-50 lube, but might have to try some others........

[Daveb6332]

I had accuracy problems with my 1894C using off the shelf 158SWC which measured .357. Couldn't hit a pie plate at 50 yds. I started casting my own 158SWC (plain base) using a Lee mould. BHN of about 10 and sized to .358 and it made all the difference. I was ready to get rid of the gun up until then so don't give up on it yet. I'm presently loading them up with 10g of Accurate #9 or 11g of 2400 and I'm hitting a 6 inch steel target at 100yds every time. I'm bumping up the load a little at at time hoping to find the sweet spot if there is any. I'm told not to expect tack driving accuracy out of these rifles. I've not shot any jacketed out of it yet so can't attest to the accuracy of those.

[codgerville@zianet.com]

I had one, it wouldn't shoot for sour grapes. Slugged the barrel and found it .359, so I sized hard 358156 to .359 and it cured it. Best load for it was 13.5 grains of 2400. Traded it to a buddy and his wife took it away from him, she won't part with it.

[texassako]

Was that first shot out of a clean bore? The notorious clean bore flier?

[TCFAN]

My 94-C has the ballard 6 groove rifling and it shoots the Lyman or Noe 358156 HP gas check boolit sized 359 very well over H110 powder in 357 cases.For plain base boolits I use 38 special cases and size at .360 over Bullseye. As long as I keep the boolit diameter large enough accuracy is generally very good as long as I use a powder the rifle likes..............Terry

[harley45]

Mine shoots 358 sized boolits great from 125 grain on up. I won't say what powder cause everybody says it won't work.

[centershot]

Thanks for your input fellows! Texassako, no, the bore wasn't clean, I had fired 10 rds. of my cast 180 gr. load through it first. Heading to the range today for more testing.

[btroj]

My 1894C drove me nuts at first. It shot 4 inch groups, or worse, at 50 yards with anything I tried as far as cast goes. It shot jacketed well, just not cast. Things changed a bunch when I got a Mihec 359940 mould. That thing shoots great in my rifle.

I attribute these problems to a very steep throat angle. A SWC doesn't center up well in the steep throat angle so they don't shoot well. The 359640 has a nose shape that let's it center up enter in the throat so accuracy is far better.

I have found the RNFP bullets to shoot reasonably but not great. I have decided that since I know what this rifle wants to be fed I will restrict its diet to that bullet.

I bet a throat ing reamer could be used to alleviate some of this problem but since I can get the rifle to shoot now I just can't justify changing anything.

[centershot]

btroj, that's interesting information! If I am unsuccessful in this quest I'll have a chamber cast done to get a look at the throat.

[44man]

I would be interested in the rifling depth of the Marlin .357 Ballard. I have measured several other Ballard calibers to find the rifling is the same .003" deep as the Micro Groove. I am starting to believe the MG has more grip. The bore size of the Marlin is larger then other rifles even if groove is right. My thoughts are that for cast the rifling should be a minimum of .004" to .006" deep.
The Marlin does need a larger boolit. Twist on the .357 should be good, not like the dumb .44.