35 Whelen Progress Report

[TXGunNut]

Ol' Ugly is starting to enjoy life as a 35 Whelen more these days, seems she's finally taking a liking to the RD 359-190 boolits that I'm feeding her until JT gets her 360-230 Thor mould cut & shipped.
Yesterday she started coming around, a couple of loads printed groups in the 2.5-3.25" neighborhood on a rainy morning range trip, not going to waste bandwith with a pic but they told me I was on the right path. One load did something I've never seen before. The case mouths failed to seal and absolutely painted the case black with soot! First time it happened I thought I'd had a case failure, next shot landed pretty close to the first one and was just as black so I decided to finish the strings. Other load was a bit warm for the powder/alloy but showed promise as well.
Today I got up and loaded some more rounds, adjusted the sooty load up .5 grs to 39.0grs RX7 (2B) and blew the first group, was too busy telling my shooting buddy about the soot from the day before, still had some in the extractor groove that survived three hours in the case cleaner. Next group I knuckled down and worked a little harder, right up until the 5th shot anyway. Danged spotting scope tripped me up again. :oops:
Other load; 44.0 grns of 3031, (1D) is coming along nicely as well. May tweak it a bit more but I think I'll shoot 2B again without tweaking, may even drag out the chrono next trip.
I think I'm going to like this cartridge! :bigsmyl2:

[TXGunNut]

Got so excited on 3000th post I forgot to attach a pic. It ain't great shooting but it's progress!83072

[Blammer]

good shooting! fun ain't it!

I like my 35 whelen too. :)

[Shuz]

My 35 Whelen game getter likes 48g of AA 4064 and the 358009, (2150fps)and my other .35 Whelen likes the RCBS 35-200FN and 24g of mil surp 4759.(1765fps)

[TXGunNut]

Yes, it is fun! The 35 Whln isn't as good a CB cartridge as the 35 Rem or 358 Win but I like it. 358009 is a bit much for anything here in TX but it sounds like fun. I was worried that I wouldn't be able to get that RD boolit to settle down but I think I'm getting close. I think I'll try those same loads again, see what the chrono tells me.

[taco650]

What was the range you were shooting at and what kind of rifle is it?

[TXGunNut]

100 yds, rifle is a Winchester 670 rebored by JES in a new walnut stock from Boyds.

[taco650]

100 yds, rifle is a Winchester 670 rebored by JES in a new walnut stock from Boyds.

Would you recommend JES for re-boring? I talked with them a few months back about doing the same to my Ruger M-77 and the cost was very reasonable considering I had to ship it to OR from GA.

[TXGunNut]

I most certainly would! If you'll do a search here I'm pretty sure you can find a half dozen happy customers very quickly.

[TXGunNut]

Was a bit windy today but figured it was too pretty a day to do housework. I'm giving up on ACWW for the 35 Rem and the 35 Whelen. :sad: Velocities for the 35 Whelen were all over the place, as were the boolit holes. Velocities were in the 2200 fps neighborhood but it was a big friggen' neighborhood! 35 Rem was a bit more consistent (2000 fps) but still shot poorly. I'm not sure how boolit hardness affects velocity but I know the rifle shot better with HT'd 50/50 w/ tin. Shot the same loads as last week but results weren't as good, guess that's why I double check.
I suspect HT WW will be a bit hard even for the 2200-2400 fps loads I'm looking for but I'll shoot them up and try a softer alloy next time.

[taco650]

Maybe you're wanting too much velocity?

[TXGunNut]

Maybe you're wanting too much velocity?

Quite possibly, my goal was to better the 35 Rem by 200fps with the same boolit or similar velocity with a heavier boolit. I know the HT 50/50 alloy will get me to 2000fps in the 35 Rem and probably in the 35 Whelen, just don't know if it will make it to 2200fps. But yes, a 200 or 230 gr boolit @ 2000 fps will suffice for anything I'm going to hunt.

[357maximum]

What twist rate did you choose?


In a 14 twist.....I run a 225 grain BRP boolit @ 2500 for deer hunting with 1.2 M.O.A accuracy or less, and I can run the same boolit to 2700 if I choose to with only slightly larger groups. I suggest a trip to the alloy area and a read of the copper and babbit alloy enhancement threads. You are not asking too much...it is very likely your alloy is simply failing.

[TXGunNut]

JES rebored mine to 1:14. Seems I do need to study up on alloys. Metallurgy is not one of my better subjects but I think some homework is in order.

[35 shooter]

Maybe it's just, my particular whelen but i had to ht ww to get over 1800fps. Acww did work up to 1800 tho.
HTww at 465 to 475 degrees for, 1 hour and water dropped gets me to 2500 fps. They get hard quick, so best to size within 24 hours or sooner if possible. One thing i found too was that i could shoot them after only 48 hours
and they would shoot just as good as if i had let them harden for a week or more.

Good luck with yours.

[JesterGrin_1]

Just wondering out loud. But what about Water Dropping Pure Lino? Will that help with the ability to shoot a higher FPS with accuracy?

[Shuz]

Just wondering out loud. But what about Water Dropping Pure Lino? Will that help with the ability to shoot a higher FPS with accuracy?

Years ago I tried water quenching lino and the bottom line was that it didn't change the hardness at all. Air cooled lino is Saeco 10(Bhn22) and so was my water quenched lino.

[TXGunNut]

Maybe it's just, my particular whelen but i had to ht ww to get over 1800fps. Acww did work up to 1800 tho.
HTww at 465 to 475 degrees for, 1 hour and water dropped gets me to 2500 fps. They get hard quick, so best to size within 24 hours or sooner if possible. One thing i found too was that i could shoot them after only 48 hours
and they would shoot just as good as if i had let them harden for a week or more.

Good luck with yours.

Thanks.
Last year's hunting boolits were HT 50/50 WW/PB with just enough tin for a good fill. That was good for around 2000 fps in my 35 Rem and it gave marginal results in the Whelen. I thought I'd try ACWW just for grins, only thing that's working in is a 30-30 @ 1800 fps. I use the oven HT method recommended by Fryxell, treated the balance of the WW RD 359-190's and will try to load & fire some this weekend. Just hope it's not too hard for a hunting boolit.

[35 shooter]

Thanks.
Last year's hunting boolits were HT 50/50 WW/PB with just enough tin for a good fill. That was good for around 2000 fps in my 35 Rem and it gave marginal results in the Whelen. I thought I'd try ACWW just for grins, only thing that's working in is a 30-30 @ 1800 fps. I use the oven HT method recommended by Fryxell, treated the balance of the WW RD 359-190's and will try to load & fire some this weekend. Just hope it's not too hard for a hunting boolit.

I spent so much time developing my loads this year that i never took time to test for expansion, so yea, i'm wondering about that too.

Anyway another guy says he uses 50/50 ww/lead and water drops in his whelens for 2200 to 2400 fps for deer loads.
Don't remember if he added tin or not.
I'll try to test a few for sure, cause i would prefer a little expansion and a DRT instead of a blood trail. But for now gotta go with what i worked up, hunting with guns in MS. is right around the corner.

[JesterGrin_1]

I would think that even if you do not have a bunch of expansion it is still a .358 Hole at the smallest. :). Go to the boiler room and I am sure there will not be a problem. :)

A few years ago I worked up a load for my 1895 Marlin GS in 45-70 of which were the Ranch Dog 350Gr RNFP/GC pushing them with a good dose of H-322 to around 1900 FPS or so. I found that with the game I have taken with the round that it does not leave a big exit hole. Probably not much bigger than 1/2". And that is with Hogs from 8LBS to over 300 LBS and a few Deer. But they were all DRT except 1 Doe went about 20 yards. Made a good shot that took out the Heart and Lungs. It still amazes me how far an animal can go when they are Gone on there Feet. Sorry the point being is that if you make a good shot then you may not need a bunch of expansion if any to take game cleanly. Besides it is sure nice not to have a bunch of blood shot meat.

[TCTex]

Thanks for the report"s"!!!!

I fells good seeing others say "un-very nice things" and progress forward.


I have run probably 350+ rounds threw my 35-06JDJ trying to get my 358009 to shoot anything but a shotgun patern. FWIW, I am running water quinched WW's at 2100 out of my 16.5 in barrel with IMR 4064.

What primers have you tried?

Duane

[TXGunNut]

I would think that even if you do not have a bunch of expansion it is still a .358 Hole at the smallest. . Go to the boiler room and I am sure there will not be a problem. -JesterGrin1


Excellent point, I've always said if you want a big hole start with a big boolit. My first CB kill was with that RD boolit in a 45-70 Guide Gun. Little doe didn't get the memo, went 25 yds into heavy brush, stopped bleeding and made a hard left for another 25 yards. Toughest track I can recall; she travelled less than 50 yds but we found her after two hours of tracking, backtracking and circling with flashlights in some pretty thick S TX brush.

[TXGunNut]

Thanks for the report"s"!!!!

I fells good seeing others say "un-very nice things" and progress forward.


I have run probably 350+ rounds threw my 35-06JDJ trying to get my 358009 to shoot anything but a shotgun patern. FWIW, I am running water quinched WW's at 2100 out of my 16.5 in barrel with IMR 4064.

What primers have you tried?

Duane

It's all fun, Duane, and our private range maintains a family-friendly atmosphere. :-) If I could open a book (oops, access a website ;-) ) and find a 100% surefire recipe for a CB rifle load for any and all rifles I would have lost interest long ago. I like the 358009, just not mad enough at my shoulder or any TX game to try it (yet). Almost got in on that last group buy but passed at the last moment. I have 4064 and Varget and a few other powders in that class, my current 30-06 is a big fan of H4350 but for now I'm using powders a fair bit faster in the 35 Whelen and the 35 Rem.
I'm supplementing my favorite 210M primers with RP 9 1/2's; a sentimental favorite. I haven't gotten to primer testing yet, will explore that as other things progress.
What's your 4064 load?

[TCTex]

1st, my 35-06 has been a true "puppy dog in heat." I have never had so much grief over a barrel as I have this one. The best "I" could do with jacketed bullets as 1.5 in at 100. Long story short, If this barrel had not been a fully custom SSK barrel its fate might have been very different.

My pet load for my 35-06 JDJ (35 Whelen AI) is 51 gr 4064 and a Win primer. I have tried Fed, CCI, and Win primers with this barrel FWIW. Went threw JD's recommendation of RL 15 and Varget and even tried classic IMR & H 4895. This barrel produced the best results with 4064. Then went and tried both .358 an .359 bullets with the two top performing primers and 4064. After that I tried two different lubes.

So far my load is 51gr 4064 with Felix lube sized at .359 with aluminum GC's. It took me a couple of months of going out weekly to work on this barrel, but it was worth the efforts.

There is no doubt in my mind you know how to work up a load, just sharing what I went threw with mine. On the flip side, I only have 15 in of rifling and I have found that pet loads for cast bullets don't always work as well. I can go to "a" reloading manual and usually get 2000 when I use data for loads in the 2300 range, but accuracy is a poopy shoot.

FWIW

Duane

[TXGunNut]

A slower powder like 4064 is very tempting, seems to make good sense. I'm impressed that it works so well in a shorter barrel. 4064 was my go-to powder for this rifle as a 30-06 until Varget came along. Should also do well under that new 360-230 Thor boolit I hope to be casting this weekend.

[taco650]

All the 35Whelen loads I've seen posted in legit manuals show them using faster powders overall than the 30-06. I came up with a good shooting load for my Ruger 30-06 with 4064: 46gr under a 220gr Sierra RN. The recoil was more of a push than a kick and the 220gr RN would plow through a lot of stuff. Put three through a nice Blacktail buck years ago. He took four steps and fell dead. Heart was in little chunks but exit was about the size of a quarter. Shot was really close, like <10yds. Sorry for the hijack.:hijack:

Back to 35 Whelen now :-)

[JesterGrin_1]

Let me get this straight you shot 3 220 Gr Sierra RN's into the same buck? Were you worried that you did not have enough gun lol.



All the 35Whelen loads I've seen posted in legit manuals show them using faster powders overall than the 30-06. I came up with a good shooting load for my Ruger 30-06 with 4064: 46gr under a 220gr Sierra RN. The recoil was more of a push than a kick and the 220gr RN would plow through a lot of stuff. Put three through a nice Blacktail buck years ago. He took four steps and fell dead. Heart was in little chunks but exit was about the size of a quarter. Shot was really close, like <10yds. Sorry for the hijack.:hijack:

Back to 35 Whelen now :-)

[TXGunNut]

Have some HT'd RD boolits loaded up for tomorrow and the 360-235 Thor mould from JT was waiting in my POB tonight. Nice looking mould! I'll give the harder RD boolits a try tomorrow, will chrono some if the weather co-operates. If it doesn't I'll cast some from the new mould and shoot anther day. It's all good!

[JesterGrin_1]

It shows that it should Rain Saturday lol. Maybe you should Melt those Ranch Dogs back down and make some THOR'S and make it THUNDER :).

Sorry could not resist lol. :)

[TCTex]

Well, I'm in North Texas and no rain yet...


I was able to get out and shoot a few 35-06 JDJ fireform loads from 35 Whelen brass. 42gr of IMR 4895. Accuracy is "OK" at best, but they are fun to burn. Registered 1650 over chrony at 20 yards.


Duane

[taco650]

Let me get this straight you shot 3 220 Gr Sierra RN's into the same buck? Were you worried that you did not have enough gun lol.

I was young and foolish. At least I can say I'm older now...

[TXGunNut]

Rain on N edge of FT Worth a few hours ago, my range is N of Denton so no issues with shooting or Chrony. The RD boolits did OK today, ES was 231 and AVG was 2249. Much better group as well, two 5rd groups of one load it seems to like with four rounds at 2" or a little bigger and a fifth flyer in each string. Amazing what a difference a little HT makes. Think I need to do a short ladder to see what a little tweaking will do, could do some primer testing as well. 35 Rem didn't like the hard boolit, tho. It liked it better when it was HT 50/50 with a touch of tin. My old load had an ES of 55, AVG 2103 but accuracy was very poor. Scored some IMR 4895 @ Cabelas today, just in time to load some under a few of those Thor boolits I hope to cast tomorrow.

[TXGunNut]

84248
WooooooHoooo! Got a pile of those Thors cast, still need to size & heat treat. Wonder how fast I can go with LLA on a GC'd GG boolit?

[Artful]

Now that's a knock 'em flat looking boolit :razz:

[taco650]

84248
WooooooHoooo! Got a pile of those Thors cast, still need to size & heat treat. Wonder how fast I can go with LLA on a GC'd GG boolit?

Nice!:awesome:lovebooli

[35 shooter]

TxGunNut those are awesome looking boolits...congrats on the new mould. I was breaking in a new mould today also. My first aluminum mould... a NOE 200 fngc rcbs clone. Guess that makes two happy campers.
As far as the lla i got no leading all the way to 2500 fps with 2 to 3 coats and good accurracy but i would get a flyer every now and then kind of in a random way.....purging?

I've been running simple lube lately in all my 35 whelen loads and the only flyer i get is the first shot out of a clean bbl or if i swab between groups. The good thing so far is the flyer is always straight up 1 to 2 inches, so it can be adjusted for in a hunting situation as long as i'm aware of it. Also experimenting with Ben's Red with 5% more bees wax. Thinking about loading one round with 4 to 5% less powder for the first shot from a clean bbl in a hunting situation to keep it in the group and not have to adjust for it. Again this is in MY rifle yours may shoot the lla just fine.

Good luck with that new boolit, sure looks like a thumper.

[TXGunNut]

Thanks, 35 shooter. Broke in a NOE 311041 mould today as well, he makes an awesome mould as well. Couldn't get it to work last time but I scrubbed it down & lubed it again, finally got it to work. Other than RD moulds it was my first custom mould but I have several aluminum moulds now, awesome little machines. The 200 fngc looks like a fine boolit and should serve you well, if I didn't have the RD 359-190 I'd be ordering the NOE RCBS clone....unless he offers the RD mould.

[35 shooter]

TxGunNut i can't get that Thor boolit out of my head. I can't wait till the weekend so i'm taking the morning off and head to the range tommorrow with the new NOE boolits to try em out. I already know how well the RCBS boolits shot , so i expect same same or maybe better.

Point of it is i can't wait for you to try those Thors. I'll be looking for THAT report. Hope it's soon!!

[TXGunNut]

Weather permitting I'll send a few downrange this weekend. Will size & HT them tomorrow night, lube & check them Thursday. May be able to get two coats of LLA dry by Sunday, we'll see.
What powder is working for you, 35 shooter? 3031 and RL7 are showing promise; thinking about 4064 and Varget.

[35 shooter]

Weather permitting I'll send a few downrange this weekend. Will size & HT them tomorrow night, lube & check them Thursday. May be able to get two coats of LLA dry by Sunday, we'll see.
What powder is working for you, 35 shooter? 3031 and RL7 are showing promise; thinking about 4064 and Varget.

H 4895 has been the all around work horse with the 200 gr. rcbs boolit. It beat IMR 4895 by a long
shot in this rifle. Although 48 grains of the IMR did shoot just over an inch at 100 yds. Also 4759 with a dacron filler
(1 grain) has worked well from 1800fps to 2200fps. 3031 shot well at 48 grains with the 200 grain boolit for 2500fps according to the Lyman manual.That load stays in 1 inch all day if i do my part and so does 48 grains of H4895.
Of course no filler with those loads. I've shot up to 51 grains of the H4895 and it was still shooting about 1 1/2 inches on avg. RL7 sounds good to me and also want to try the 4064 just to see if i can go a bit faster just for fun.
Now to see if this NOE boolit shoots those same loads. May have to start all over with my luck.

[taco650]

What's the heaviest non-custom boolit for 35 Whelen?

[JesterGrin_1]

As far as I know the 290Gr 358009 or some are called the 35809 by Lyman but they are no longer produced. So you would have to find a good used one or there are vendors here on the forum that made them in group buys. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?124128-358009-Small-Group-Buy-Alum&highlight=358009


What's the heaviest non-custom boolit for 35 Whelen?

[Blammer]

NOE has a few here.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=35&osCsid=v3fvgqbj13d3q7ar891lif3c55

[TCTex]

I have NOE's 358009 and Jester is right on. I am getting 292 out of WW's lubed and checked. The Hollow Points are dropping at 275.

FWIW...


Duane

[TXGunNut]

H 4895 has been the all around work horse with the 200 gr. rcbs boolit. It beat IMR 4895 by a long
shot in this rifle. Although 48 grains of the IMR did shoot just over an inch at 100 yds. Also 4759 with a dacron filler
(1 grain) has worked well from 1800fps to 2200fps. 3031 shot well at 48 grains with the 200 grain boolit for 2500fps according to the Lyman manual.That load stays in 1 inch all day if i do my part and so does 48 grains of H4895.
Of course no filler with those loads. I've shot up to 51 grains of the H4895 and it was still shooting about 1 1/2 inches on avg. RL7 sounds good to me and also want to try the 4064 just to see if i can go a bit faster just for fun.
Now to see if this NOE boolit shoots those same loads. May have to start all over with my luck.

Haven't been able to score H4895, for some reason the H always outperforms the IMR powders IMHO, at least by a little bit. I understand H4895 and 335 are quite good as the boolits get heavier as well. I think I'll drop back 2-3 grs for the 235 Thor.
Thanks for the load suggestions; here's the small batch I checked & relubed tonight. I love it when a gas check snaps on with just a little pressure! I may run out of lube @ these velocities but it's worth a try.

84593

[taco650]

Thanks for the load suggestions; here's the small batch I checked & relubed tonight. I love it when a gas check snaps on with just a little pressure! I may run out of lube @ these velocities but it's worth a try.

84593

Have you thought of pan lubing with a blend that will withstand the velocity you hope to achieve?

[TXGunNut]

Have you thought of pan lubing with a blend that will withstand the velocity you hope to achieve?

I'm not convinced LLA won't get me there. I've been up over 2300 already with plain ol' LLA, nothing more than just a few sparkles of lead on the first patch. Nice fresh JES bore and a good-fitting boolit might just work. It's not a TL design but that doesn't mean it won't work. I can always order a die for my 4500 if it doesn't work out.

[35 shooter]

Looks like you've got em coated good. I think your good to go. Personally i liked tumble lubing with lla and jpw.
Just wish it had worked better for my rifle.Every bbl's an individual so it may be perfect for yours. Actually, looking back at my reloading notes i shot some of the tightest groups in that rifle with lla. Just that i got a flyer as i said before,
every now and then. Let us know how it works and i may just go back with mine and try one less coat?

Man i gotta quit looking at those Thor pictures!![smilie=l:

[TXGunNut]

I'm a big fan of the KISS doctrine. The fewer steps, processes, components and dollars involved the better, AFAIC.
As soon as I get some loaded I'll post a pic. [smilie=l:

[35 shooter]

I have NOE's 358009 and Jester is right on. I am getting 292 out of WW's lubed and checked. The Hollow Points are dropping at 275.

FWIW...


Duane

TCTex how does that 358009 shoot for you? I ordered a NOE MOULD last week and almost got that one too while they had some. Is yours gc or pb?

Sorry for the off track and back to the regular program.

[TXGunNut]

Just loaded up a few, makes a rather handsome cartridge. Thought I'd better post a pic to tease 35 shooter a bit. [smilie=s:



84682

[35 shooter]

Looks like you could fit a handle to the brass and use that thing for a hammer! They didn't name it THOR for nothing. I just thought my 200's had a flat nose. Man o man if that thing shoots half as good as it looks..........

[TXGunNut]

Should know more this time tomorrow, kinda worried about the "backswing" on that hammer. This is probably going to hurt. :-)

[taco650]

Should know more this time tomorrow, kinda worried about the "backswing" on that hammer. This is probably going to hurt. :-)

What did you load them with?

[TXGunNut]

What did you load them with?

Must admit it was a SWAG based on the above posts but I'm going with 48 grs IMR4895 under the 235 gr Thor and the 195 gr RD boolit-thanks 35 shooter! I also put 48 grs IMR4064 under some RD boolits. I'll run these over the Chrony today, should be interesting. I think I'll wind up laddering down the Thor load but I'm expecting 2100 fps, that's pretty consistent with my goals for this project. If I ladder it down towards 2000 fps I may be able to use a softer alloy. The RD loads should come in around 2200 fps, also consistent with my goals.
Need to do hardness testing later today on some culls, both HT and AC. Should be an interesting day. :-)

[taco650]

Must admit it was a SWAG based on the above posts but I'm going with 48 grs IMR4895 under the 235 gr Thor and the 195 gr RD boolit-thanks 35 shooter! I also put 48 grs IMR4064 under some RD boolits. I'll run these over the Chrony today, should be interesting. I think I'll wind up laddering down the Thor load but I'm expecting 2100 fps, that's pretty consistent with my goals for this project. If I ladder it down towards 2000 fps I may be able to use a softer alloy. The RD loads should come in around 2200 fps, also consistent with my goals.
Need to do hardness testing later today on some culls, both HT and AC. Should be an interesting day. :-)

Looking forward for the results ;-)

[TXGunNut]

Looking forward for the results ;-)

Well....it was interesting. The IMR 4064/RD load was disappointing, I think it wanted to go faster. I guess that wouldn't hurt, only averaging 2143 and ES wasn't terrible. 48 grs IMR 4895 under the RD was a bit smaller groups at a bit higher avg velocity but velocities were all over the place, ES of 528. Probably should have used my skyscreens. Thor boolit shot quite well, avg velocity of 2195, ES 343 but groups showed promise. Easily kept 4 out of five in a little over an inch and the flyers only opened the group to a bit over two inches.
Beautiful day but bright sun may have contributed to the high ES's I encountered. I think I'll repeat the RD loads and ladder up a couple of steps. The Thor load doesn't need much, maybe another primer or a half grain of powder will get me there.
Mag spring has been a bit weak, causing feeding issues. Pulled it out this evening and it broke, guess it has a right to be tired after many thousands of flexes. Guess I'll go hang out on the Brownell's site.

[35 shooter]

TXGunNut are you using a crimp? Just curious.

[TXGunNut]

TXGunNut are you using a crimp? Just curious.

Very light, not much more than straightening the case mouth. Thinking I need to roll it in a little?
Hardness tests are in; HT: 21, AC: 10.

[TXGunNut]

I don't generally put much or any crimp in bolt gun cartridges, does sound like something I could try. Come to think of it, I don't cast for any other bolt guns at the moment so what do I know? Seems I'm applying j-word technology to boolits again. ;-)

[35 shooter]

TXGunNUT won't hurt to try at least a couple of groups with a known load. See if it tightens things up kind of thing.
With j's i always seat to the lands (no crimp) and work the loads. With cast however, i was having problems getting it to do the same thing twice. Long story short Eric at Hollow Point Moulds suggested i try crimping and backing off seating depth. It worked for me but i dragged my feet a while before doing it. If you're shooting any "hot" loads tho
probably be a good idea to reduce the load for the crimp and work back up just in case it adds to much pressure.
(Like you didn't already know that huh?)
All i know is it started grouping good and it stopped all smoking of the case necks so i've stuck with it, much better powder burn too, with almost no residue left in the bbl shot to shot. My rifle has a throat then rifling (no leade).
Pretty harsh environment for my boolits to start out from.

One of these days i'm gonna try seating all the way to the nose band on that 200 grain boolit with no crimp and try that. I will be reducing the loads first when i do tho. Still, without a leade for the rest of the boolit i don't know how that's going to work out. Stuck with the crimp in my ol contrary rifle for now.

You're Thor results sounded good.

[nanuk]

35 shooter, the deeper the seating, the lower the pressure, all else being the same, in bottle neck cartridges

don't be afraid to seat deeper.

[TXGunNut]

Thanks, I crimp my levergun and revolver loads but didn't think about crimping for a bolt gun until you mentioned it. Load is pretty mild so I think I'll let that ride, like to change as few variables as possible. I load for hunting situations so I generally keep the J-words off the lands, I've found there's generally another "sweet spot" .005-.015" off the lands. Ol' Ugly has a bit of a leade. I haven't bothered with tweaking the seating depth, boolit has a pretty fat nose (.352") so I'm not sweating it much.
Guess I'll go ahead and post some pics. Not very happy with them but I learned a good bit from them.


84886

[35 shooter]

nanuk i may not have been clear on that. I meant seating into the rifling to the nose band not deeper into the case.
Were you talking about seating into the rifling?

[TXGunNut]

Addressing feeding issues this week. Tweaking the magazine lips helped but the last round from the right side is a bit balky. Big fat LFN boolit seems to be hitting the ramps leading to the chamber. Hoping a little polishing on the ramps will clear this up. Ran out of patience, reassembled the gun and started a thread over on the Gunsmithing forum. I'm learning. :-)

[35 shooter]

Hope that gets straightened out easily. Groups looked good on the Thor.Looks like it IS gonna shoot as good as it looks! Can't wait to see more of that.

[TXGunNut]

I think you're right, this boolit is going to do well in this rifle. Was looking for 1.5-2" groups but pretty sure I can get it under 1.5" with out much fuss. Haven't even dug out the good primers yet!
Weellllllllll...it wasn't easy but I eventually got Ol' Ugly feeding as good as I think it will get with this rifle, these boolits. Wrapped & taped some emery cloth around a Bic Stic pen, got some light on the subject and polished it as best I could. Big wide meplat still hits the back of the chamber now and then but it's better. Dummy rounds are a bit dinged up so it will do better with real ammo, I hope.
Doubt I'll get to shoot it this weekend, suspect half the club will probably be out there trying to sight in deer rifles. General season opens here Nov 3rd. May be a good weekend for some BP SAA action.

[nanuk]

nanuk i may not have been clear on that. I meant seating into the rifling to the nose band not deeper into the case.
Were you talking about seating into the rifling?

Sorry, I misunderstood

I was talking about seating into the case deeper so as to have a shorter COAL, giving the boolit a running start.

[35 shooter]

Sorry, I misunderstood

I was talking about seating into the case deeper so as to have a shorter COAL, giving the boolit a running start.

Ok... yeah seating off the rifling and deeper in the case HAS worked best so far in this rifle. Seems like a lot of things with cast so far is just the opposite of what i always did with j's. All i know is looks like TXGuNut is close on that THOR. Can't wait for another report on that...MORE THOR...MORE THOR...MORE THOR...Hey that rhymes!

[44magLeo]

I have Lee's reloading manual second edition, in there he has a section on lead bullets, hardness, chamber pressure and accuracy.
We all know that higher velocity needs harder boolets. Richard Lee has figured out just how much velocity you can get by knowing boolet hardness. The hardness indicates the strength of the bullet. Knowing the strength of the bullet tells you how much chamber pressure the boolet can withstand.
Adjust the chamber pressure to just below what the boolet can withstand gives the best accuracy.
Select a powder that gives you this pressure, Using a slower burning powder at this pressure gives you the highest velocity the boolet can handle and still be accurate.
I know this doesn't explain it as well as Richard Lee can.
If you have the book read this section. If you don't have the book it don't cost much and is a very interesting read.
Leo

[TXGunNut]

Lee's manual gives an excellent detailed overview, I recommend it highly myself. Fryxell's book is a better source for understanding the hardness and strength of a boolit, they aren't the same thing. Boolit fit, lube and construction are other factors to consider when deciding if a boolit can withstand a certain amount of pressure. I can measure boolit hardness, fit and velocity but pressure and how it builds are factors I have to theorize about after studying velocities and on-target performance.

[taco650]

I'll 2nd Fryxell's book. I downloaded it recently & got lots of good tips from it.

[TXGunNut]

No range time this weekend, stormy outside and back is going absolutely bonkers for reasons unknown.:-x Shooting buddy was called out of town on a family emergency so it's just as well. Been doing hours of surfing here and elsewhere, may have learned a thing or two. ;)
Another often overlooked factor in the boolit hardness/velocity relationship is the RPM threshold principle that Larry Gibson addresses in a sticky around here somewhere. It explains, for example, why my Winchester 70 in 30-06 with it's 1/10 twist will always be fed jaxteted boolits. It also explains why my 30-30 with a 1/10 twist doesn't like to go fast with the same alloy and similar boolit construction that my 35 Rem is perfectly happy with at an additional 300 fps. I've never truly understood the RPM thing until tonight, now it's not all voodoo and magic anymore.
I think I'll take my crippled-up butt to bed, mebbe I'll get to do some loading tomorrow.

[44magLeo]

Fryxell's book? Title and where to find?
Leo

[TXGunNut]

There's a link around here somewhere, it's only available as a download.

"From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunners" Glen E Fryxell and Robert L Applegate

Much of what he talks about applies to rifles as well as handguns. Don't get bogged down too much in the metallurgy, COWW is an excellent alloy and can be adjusted for most situations. He does an excellent job of explaining why.

[taco650]

Fryxell's book? Title and where to find?
Leo

I think I found it through Google

[TXGunNut]

Fryxell's book? Title and where to find?
Leo

There's a sticky and a link under "Cast Boolits", thoughtfully posted by cbrick. I saved it to my hard drive. Good thread, too.

[TXGunNut]

Hope that gets straightened out easily. Groups looked good on the Thor.Looks like it IS gonna shoot as good as it looks! Can't wait to see more of that.

Loaded up a few 359-190's and some Thors a little while ago. Tightened up the crimp a bit, hope it wasn't too much. Had ten prepped cases left and remembered the SFRB that you sent me, I think you may have solved my feeding problem! Nice looking boolits, BTW. Meplat is smaller than the RD or the Thor, maybe it won't catch on the back of the chamber. :-) Lube is drying on them now, wish I'd thought to look at them a few days ago. I was thinking about the 358-009 boolit to overcome this issue. Just wish the NOE/RCBS boolit weighed another 40-50 grs.

[35 shooter]

Loaded up a few 359-190's and some Thors a little while ago. Tightened up the crimp a bit, hope it wasn't too much. Had ten prepped cases left and remembered the SFRB that you sent me, I think you may have solved my feeding problem! Nice looking boolits, BTW. Meplat is smaller than the RD or the Thor, maybe it won't catch on the back of the chamber. :-) Lube is drying on them now, wish I'd thought to look at them a few days ago. I was thinking about the 358-009 boolit to overcome this issue. Just wish the NOE/RCBS boolit weighed another 40-50 grs.

The rcbs version is even smaller at the nose. Noe kind of blunted it off and i like that. Looks like it'll smack something for sure. RCBS makes a 250 gr. that looks like it has a small meplat too.

Shot the NOE'S again today and the 26 gr. load of 4759 shot like usual except for the last group, i popped the last shot 1/2" high of the group. The 33 grain load that the RCBS liked so well did not shoot well tho, gonna have to tweak that one for the NOE a bit. Haven't shot any hot loads with it yet. Hope i don't have to change them too.
That's weird tho cause the other day i shot 2 groups with 33 gr. and it shot well....go figure. With my luck i'll probably have to tweak my other loads for it a little too. Funny how 2 boolits so close in configuration like the NOE and RCBS can shoot so different. I think the NOE is gonna beat it out in the end tho, it's just a tad more nose riding.

You may just have to box that old THOR mould up and send it to MS.:-P

[TXGunNut]

You may just have to box that old THOR mould up and send it to MS. -35 shooter

Maybe so, but I have it on good authority it makes a good 35 Rem boolit! Let me know how it works for you. Thanks for the tip on the RCBS 250 grainer. I'm still not mad enough at my shoulder to try the 358-009 but the Thor boolit is not unpleasant at 2100-2200 fps in this rifle. The 358-009 @ 2000 or less shouldn't be all that bad. Mebbe I need to start a GB discussion thread about a NOE copy of that RCBS 250 gr boolit. Lots of 35 Whelen shooters around here and most of us don't need to shoot thru moose or big bears, even fewer headed to Africa after the big plains game.

[35 shooter]

Think i judged the 33 grain load too quick. Just got thru resizing the brass i shot today and i had 2 cracked heads.
Only fired 5 times with proven handloads i get up to 20 firings on with rem. brass. This was some hornady brass a friend gave me after he fired the factory rounds. When i resized them the first time they had stretched 15 thousands from his rifle so i figured he had a head space problem but didn't know it had weakened the brass that much. I junked all of it and darn glad i didn't load anything hot today. Hate to turn down free brass but don't want anymore fired from that rifle.

I think that THOR is gonna shoot so good for you you'll load em single shot if you have too. But i'm bettin you get the feed figured out. I'll try to run some of em thru the encore this week or weekend. Actually i thought about framing em or something, they're too pretty to shoot!

BTW the only place i've seen the RCBS 250 mould was at Midway. They consider it a speacialty so it's a bit higher priced.

[JesterGrin_1]

Look Here :) http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?216564-BRP-Moulds-are-here&highlight=358

For the BRP 363-220 GC And he has a BRP 361-275 GC.

Some information here. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?68897-BRP-360-220-35Whelen-success&highlight=360-220

[taco650]

Maybe so, but I have it on good authority it makes a good 35 Rem boolit! Let me know how it works for you. Thanks for the tip on the RCBS 250 grainer. I'm still not mad enough at my shoulder to try the 358-009 but the Thor boolit is not unpleasant at 2100-2200 fps in this rifle. The 358-009 @ 2000 or less shouldn't be all that bad. Mebbe I need to start a GB discussion thread about a NOE copy of that RCBS 250 gr boolit. Lots of 35 Whelen shooters around here and most of us don't need to shoot thru moose or big bears, even fewer headed to Africa after the big plains game.

I'd like to see one of those Thor's after its been shot through a big feral pig.

[Clay M]

I have always admired the Whelen. I have a .350 Remington mag in a 700 Classic. It is a great gun but with the short action it is only good for 200 or 220 grain bullets.The long action of the Whelen would be better suited for the heavier bullets.

[TXGunNut]

Look Here :) http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?216564-BRP-Moulds-are-here&highlight=358

For the BRP 363-220 GC And he has a BRP 361-275 GC.

Some information here. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?68897-BRP-360-220-35Whelen-success&highlight=360-220

What do you like about these boolits? Base looks rather odd on the 275 gr boolit, clue me in on what that's about?

[TXGunNut]

I have always admired the Whelen. I have a .350 Remington mag in a 700 Classic. It is a great gun but with the short action it is only good for 200 or 220 grain bullets.The long action of the Whelen would be better suited for the heavier bullets.


I guess the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, Clay. I think the ultimate 35 cal bolt action/box mag levergun cartridge just may be the .358 Winchester and from what I can see the 350 Rem Mag should be able to do anything the Winchester cartridge can do. I do like the heavy boolit capability of the 35 Whelen.
Is brass availability an issue with the Rem Mag?

[TXGunNut]

BTW the only place i've seen the RCBS 250 mould was at Midway. They consider it a speacialty so it's a bit higher priced. -35 shooter

I studied on that awhile, I like the NOE version of the RCBS boolit much better in the 200 gr, think he could improve on the 250 as well.
BTW, you make a fine boolit, Pilgrim! Just got thru GC'ing and applying a second coat of lube. Loading up a few tomorrow, can't wait to see how they feed. Will probably have one coming from NOE pretty quick but JesterGrin 1 has pretty much derailed that train of thought. I only have one extra set of mould handles, somehow thought they'd go unused for awhile. ;-)

[JesterGrin_1]

What do you like about these boolits? Base looks rather odd on the 275 gr boolit, clue me in on what that's about?

I have not used the 275Gr. But I do have the BRP 360-220 GC which is now called the BRP 363-220 GC In the above referenced thread by SwedeNelson. And also talked about in the other thread I linked to.

You could give BaBore http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?402-BABore a shout here on the forum and ask him about the 275Gr and I am sure he will be glad to give you more information on the design.

I use the BRP 360-220 GC in my .358 Winchester. :)

[Clay M]

I guess the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, Clay. I think the ultimate 35 cal bolt action/box mag levergun cartridge just may be the .358 Winchester and from what I can see the 350 Rem Mag should be able to do anything the Winchester cartridge can do. I do like the heavy boolit capability of the 35 Whelen.
Is brass availability an issue with the Rem Mag?

Nosler currently makes the brass, but it is expensive. I saw the problem coming years ago and bought about 200 pieces of Rem brass.

[WallyM3]

.375 H&H is always out there.

Or others with the basic belted base. I had .350 Rem Mag for my rifle, so never made any, but where there's a will...(there will be relatives------sorry, another point altogether).

[TXGunNut]

I think I need to shelve this project for awhile, can't figure out why the last round from the right won't feed. NOE/RCBS 35-200 seemed to feed a bit better from the left side. Not convinced it's the boolit but I'm done messing with loaded rounds tonight, don't feel like building a dummy right now either. Kicking around a 358-009 but I'm pretty sure that long nose will cause the same issue as a wide meplat.
Think I'll push this project to the back burner until after deer season. Need to cast a supply of boolits for my 35 Rem and the 45-70 is ready to go hunting. I know what it takes to make them work! 30-30 just needs sighting in and there are a couple of pretty outstanding 30-06 (j-word shootin' :-( ) rifles around here as well. Have a half-finished casting shed that needs three more walls and a roof, time to focus on something else for awhile.

[taco650]

I think I need to shelve this project for awhile, can't figure out why the last round from the right won't feed. NOE/RCBS 35-200 seemed to feed a bit better from the left side. Not convinced it's the boolit but I'm done messing with loaded rounds tonight, don't feel like building a dummy right now either. Kicking around a 358-009 but I'm pretty sure that long nose will cause the same issue as a wide meplat.
Think I'll push this project to the back burner until after deer season. Need to cast a supply of boolits for my 35 Rem and the 45-70 is ready to go hunting. I know what it takes to make them work! 30-30 just needs sighting in and there are a couple of pretty outstanding 30-06 (j-word shootin' :-( ) rifles around here as well. Have a half-finished casting shed that needs three more walls and a roof, time to focus on something else for awhile.

There's always something isn't there??? ;-)

[TXGunNut]

There's always something isn't there??? ;-)

Yes, indeed. Been a long day, I know I'm missing something but I've learned to walk away at times like this.

[35 shooter]

TXGuNut got the THOR's ht'd tonight. I'll try to give em a go sometime this week along with the NOE's.
That JesterGrin 1 is something isn't he? (Mold up some THORS and make it thunder)... I'm still laughing about that one.

[JesterGrin_1]

Who? Me? Ok what did I do wrong now lol. :)

[waksupi]

I think I need to shelve this project for awhile, can't figure out why the last round from the right won't feed. NOE/RCBS 35-200 seemed to feed a bit better from the left side. Not convinced it's the boolit but I'm done messing with loaded rounds tonight, don't feel like building a dummy right now either. Kicking around a 358-009 but I'm pretty sure that long nose will cause the same issue as a wide meplat.
Think I'll push this project to the back burner until after deer season. Need to cast a supply of boolits for my 35 Rem and the 45-70 is ready to go hunting. I know what it takes to make them work! 30-30 just needs sighting in and there are a couple of pretty outstanding 30-06 (j-word shootin' :-( ) rifles around here as well. Have a half-finished casting shed that needs three more walls and a roof, time to focus on something else for awhile.

I've not followed the whole thread, but here is two cents worth. I found it beneficial to relieve the right side of the barrel end, going into the chamber. Be sure not to cut down below the cartridge web support area. Polish, and then make sure you operate the rifle in a smart fashion, as a bolt action is intended to be. Trying to sneak them into the chamber will cause feed problems.

[taco650]

Yes, indeed. Been a long day, I know I'm missing something but I've learned to walk away at times like this.

Good choice. It will be there when you get back to it. Blowing a gasket over something like this isn't worth it.

waksupi has some good advice too.

[TXGunNut]

I've not followed the whole thread, but here is two cents worth. I found it beneficial to relieve the right side of the barrel end, going into the chamber. Be sure not to cut down below the cartridge web support area. Polish, and then make sure you operate the rifle in a smart fashion, as a bolt action is intended to be. Trying to sneak them into the chamber will cause feed problems.

At first I thought the breech end of the bbl was the issue but after watching carefully I don't think the boolit is getting that far. I only have issues when I DO operate the bolt "smartly" as we like to say. I'm thinking the mag spring was something to do with it, have two new ones sitting on the bench tonight. I'll polish the follower and the rail while I'm at it, may even load up some dummy 30-06 spire point j-words for a control.
Had to meet my Australian clients a couple of towns away tonight, may take another swing at it tomorrow.

[TXGunNut]

Good choice. It will be there when you get back to it. Blowing a gasket over something like this isn't worth it.

waksupi has some good advice too.

Wasn't going to blow a gasket, thanks. Had a choice between wine with dinner or working on a rifle with live ammo. Doing both simply isn't an option. I love playing with guns, I love to drink. Never both at once. Kinda like a jealous wife and a girlfriend, best they never meet.

[JesterGrin_1]

What is life without a little excitement lol.

I wish I could say this the way I should say this but due to forum policy I can not do so. There fore I will mellow it down a bit lol.

As my Grand Father once said. When you mess with Doo Doo you inevitably will get some on you lol.

[waksupi]

At first I thought the breech end of the bbl was the issue but after watching carefully I don't think the boolit is getting that far. I only have issues when I DO operate the bolt "smartly" as we like to say. I'm thinking the mag spring was something to do with it, have two new ones sitting on the bench tonight. I'll polish the follower and the rail while I'm at it, may even load up some dummy 30-06 spire point j-words for a control.
Had to meet my Australian clients a couple of towns away tonight, may take another swing at it tomorrow.

Try some other followers, too.

[Nrut]

and make sure that your extractor is holding the case head tight against the bolt face..

[TXGunNut]

Try some other followers, too.

Hmmmm....Suggestions? Numrich lists quite a few.

[TXGunNut]

and make sure that your extractor is holding the case head tight against the bolt face..

Ol' Ugly is a push feed. Claw extractor is nice but was never needed before on this rifle.

[waksupi]

Hmmmm....Suggestions? Numrich lists quite a few.

That's the problem. There are lots of them! Try taking some from your other guns, try them, if they don't work, try some from friends guns. Once you figure out which one, then you are good to go. I used to have around ten of them for experimenting with.

[TXGunNut]

That's the problem. There are lots of them! Try taking some from your other guns, try them, if they don't work, try some from friends guns. Once you figure out which one, then you are good to go. I used to have around ten of them for experimenting with.

I have a twin to this rifle in 30-06, other Winchester is a fairly new Super Grade. Both 670's have the same follower. I'll replace the spring and do some careful testing this weekend. Any tips on riveting the new spring to the follower? Was thinking a steel punch and an anvil. Would be nice if the spring fixed this but that doesn't make sense.

[waksupi]

I have a twin to this rifle in 30-06, other Winchester is a fairly new Super Grade. Both 670's have the same follower. I'll replace the spring and do some careful testing this weekend. Any tips on riveting the new spring to the follower? Was thinking a steel punch and an anvil. Would be nice if the spring fixed this but that doesn't make sense.

All of my followers just slip on to the spring.

[TXGunNut]

All of my followers just slip on to the spring.

These attach with a rivet. Had to cut off/drill out the old rivet, drill a hole in the spring, drill a divot in an old chunk of iron to shape the bottom of the rivet and drive it in. Pizza got a little cold. :-(

[fouronesix]

Some of the idiosyncrasies of feed are very difficult to figure and troubleshoot. The suggestion about the follower is one of the possibilities. Have a Win 70 CRF (standard long action) that I built in 338-06. To get full potential (longer OAL) had to cut the magazine spacer out, shorten the bolt stop and modify the ejector. Intermittently, the last round out of the mag just never acted right. I tried lots of things like: polish the rails, polish the follower, reshape the follower, change the spring angle... I even tried other Win 70 followers out of other rifles. Nothing really made any difference. No major jams but that last round just never acted right coming out and into the chamber.

One day I was browsing through Numrich parts and had an epiphany! Try changing out the follower to a Long Mag. Heck for about $30 worth a try. If it didn't work I'd have a spare. With minimal outside profile filing and fitting to the bag box- presto! No more balky pick up of the last round in the mag.

Don't know if that's the answer for the 35 Wh. but worth some thought.

[TXGunNut]

Interesting, fouronesix. That would have never occurred to me.

[fouronesix]

That's the problem with these feed issues. Just doesn't make intuitive sense sometimes. Even when you watch the feed going slow motion it's hard to pick up that subtle shift of a slightly short follower and it's hard to see how it would cause a problem. I don't know if it will help your 670 feed but you may try a longer follower such as a "long mag" length, it could help- maybe borrow one from another gun. Like waksupi posted, most Win 70s are standardized and bayonet slot mounted to the spring. But the overall (outside) specs of all standard long Win 70 magazine boxes should be the same.

It took very little filing to fit the long mag follower into the lengthened standard box. Like magic, it solved that unpredictable balky feed I was getting.

Interestingly, I have built other max OAL rifles (both 338-06 and 35 Whelen AI) using standard long action Rem 700s and never had that issue. But many or most of the Win 70 standard length family of actions have that spacer in the mag box along with a follower that fits the slightly shorter length.

[TXGunNut]

I'll put the original follower & new spring back in later today. Still trying to figure out why I never had this problem when it was a 30-06. Have some loads ready for a range trip tomorrow, yard work and an important errand are keeping Ol' Ugly in the safe until later.

[taco650]

I'll put the original follower & new spring back in later today. Still trying to figure out why I never had this problem when it was a 30-06. Have some loads ready for a range trip tomorrow, yard work and an important errand are keeping Ol' Ugly in the safe until later.

Maybe it worked as a 30-06 because the bullet was skinnier and thus sat higher off the follower which allowed it to jump the gap from the follower to the chamber. The 35 boolit sits much closer to the follower itself than a 30 cal would and might need a little more support to make it in. Did you try running some jxt bullet loads through the chamber? Just speculating here.

[TXGunNut]

Maybe it worked as a 30-06 because the bullet was skinnier and thus sat higher off the follower which allowed it to jump the gap from the follower to the chamber. The 35 boolit sits much closer to the follower itself than a 30 cal would and might need a little more support to make it in. Did you try running some jxt bullet loads through the chamber? Just speculating here.

Yes, will do that. Control group is part of any good experiment. Speaking of groups planning on shooting Ol' Ugly tomorrow; should be interesting. I'll put the new spring in after I run a few 30-06 rounds thru, then swap it out for the new spring. I don't think the new spring will help but I know the old spring was weak. Can't hurt.

[TXGunNut]

Well, I'm having trouble believing it but Ol' Ugly just needed a new spring to feed those 35 Whelen cases. With the spring & follower from Annie, my other 670, it would not feed the last round from the right more times than not. It did OK w/ 30-06 rounds but that didn't surprise me. I put the original follower and new spring in Ol' Ugly and she fed great! Before I installed the new spring I laid it beside Annie's spring and follower and profile was almost identical, height was the same. No idea what happened but I've solved feeding issues in 1911's for years with nothing more than a new spring. Since the old spring broke the initial fix was obvious, still can't believe it though. I loaded a dummy with a Thor boolit off the right side 25 straight times and it fed every time. All I could see was that the new spring did a little better job of lifting the front of the follower, guess that's the key here.
Well, she's fixed and we're headed to the range!

[taco650]

Success! Now get out and shoot that thing! ;-)

[fouronesix]

That's good news. Nothing like a simple fix! Just goes to show those feeding problems are sometimes tough buggers to diagnose. If in the future you decide to go ahead and lengthen the magazine to full potential length- remember the trick of re-fitting with a long magnum length (375, etc.) follower.

[TXGunNut]

I have a little saying, sometimes we're looking for a zebra when all we're after is a grade horse. Thanks for the encouragement and all the tips.

[TXGunNut]

Success! Now get out and shoot that thing! ;-)

Great idea! Ol' Ugly had a really good day at the range today, was a bit windy but we got things done. Feeding issue came up again but I was trying to make it do it. First group with the 360-235 Thor was pretty good, fifth shot went high but I was trying to get the bbl hot & succeeded. ;-) First group with the RD 359-190 was pretty much awesome all things considered, Ol" Ugly was thumping me pretty hard and the wind caught a few shots. Second group with each load was unremarkable, didn't let it cool and loose nut took over sight alignment and trigger control chores. ;-)



8636886369


"New" thutty-thutty had a good day too, trying out a new dot scope.

[35 shooter]

Looking good from here.:D

[TXGunNut]

Thanks! Velocities were quite a bit higher than I expected, Thor load averaged 2482, ES was 51. RD load avg'd 2533, ES 80. Sun was bright and no skyscreens were used but numbers still looked pretty good. On top of that I scored 2 pounds of IMR4895 @ Cabelas on the way home. :-) Just cast almost 500 of the RD in 50/50 alloy for my 35 Rem, need to load up some hunting loads. Cull rate was oddly low and good boolits started dropping on the second pour. Just been one of those days. :D
Wonder if a HT 50/50 boolit will be OK @ 2500 FPS?

[35 shooter]

I don't think the deer, hogs or anything else you hit with it are gonna think it's okay. I think they're gonna think a mack truck ran over them.Ought to be a good exit hole on it. Try that little 3031 load with your Thor. I was very impressed with it and it was very easy on recoil.

[TXGunNut]

Only issue with recoil was left hand under pistol grip, Ol' Ugly has raised a nasty knot on the back of my left hand...again.

[fouronesix]

:) Thought I was the only one that happened to. Get into a habit, off the bench, with lighter recoiling guns, forget to change the left hand position and wham- either the pistol grip or trigger guard leaves a lump! On those mornings when I wake up smart, I remember to take a glove. I've been running less than 50% smart recently.

[nanuk]

2400-2500fps with a 230gr boolit would be all I'd need!

[TXGunNut]

2400-2500fps with a 230gr boolit would be all I'd need!

Quite honestly it's probably more than I'll ever need but I have a weakness for "thumpers". I enjoy shooting big hogs on occasion but all the eating size hogs and our smallish TX deer need less than half of what this thumper dishes out.
Think I'll go size some boolits!

[35 shooter]

TXGuNut since that IMR load seems to work with the THOR and RD i think i'll re-visit that load with the 200 grain NOE. That boolit did not like the h4895 loads at all(bad vertical strings) where the old RCBS loved it.That's weird since both boolits are so close in configiration. Vertical strings in my rifle usually signals the boolit wants to go faster and that would just tickle me fine. Although as fast as you chronoed that IMR4895 load maybe i need to back off a little on h4895?...decisions....decisions....decisions!

[taco650]

Great idea! Ol' Ugly had a really good day at the range today, ;-)

8636886369


I really like the nice clean holes the FP gives.

[TXGunNut]

Don't you hate it when you lose a post after a lot of careful thought and writing?
Goodnight!

[taco650]

don't you hate it when you lose a post after a lot of careful thought and writing?
Goodnight!

yes!!!

[TXGunNut]

TXGuNut since that IMR load seems to work with the THOR and RD i think i'll re-visit that load with the 200 grain NOE. That boolit did not like the h4895 loads at all(bad vertical strings) where the old RCBS loved it.That's weird since both boolits are so close in configiration. Vertical strings in my rifle usually signals the boolit wants to go faster and that would just tickle me fine. Although as fast as you chronoed that IMR4895 load maybe i need to back off a little on h4895?...decisions....decisions....decisions! -35 Shooter

Sounds like it would be worth a try but I have a theory that RD boolits like to go fast, I don't know why the RCBS or NOE boolits wouldn't be happy doing the same. I generally prefer Hodgdon powders over IMR when I have a choice but H4895 powder is nowhere to be found in my travels, felt lucky to find a supply of the IMR. Not sure the H4895 has much more to offer, perhaps one day I'll try it. These loads are indeed pretty fast, was considering throttling them back a bit but will try the same loads this weekend to see if they're repeatable.
Need to test my latest batch of boolits as well, hoping I can use the RD boolit cast of 50/50 alloy for both the 35 Rem and the 35 Whelen. Good thing I'm on vacation next week, less than a month before I go hunting.

[35 shooter]

About all i can figure is the NOE is a bit more nose bearing(about 1/2 thou.) so may be setting up a little more friction in the bbl. Sometimes it's the small things. Anyway I'll play with IMR and H4895 this weekend and see. The RCBS boolit is good to go with all my loads (worked hard all summer on those) so that's all good to go. I'll play with the THOR again this weekend too...You got me hooked on that one big time. I absolutely love that boolit!
That is all the power i would ever need anywhere, anytime on anything! Our early primitive opens on the 11th and the single shot whelen is legal....crazy ain't it? They say next year it's going to be any caliber any action even in the primitive season at least on private land.

Btw a little off topic but what would your opinion of Brownings Take Down lever action in 358 Win. be? Especially with a forward mounted scout type scope.
It's like that THOR....can't get it out of my mind.

[TXGunNut]

Honestly, I personally don't much care for the BLR or scout scopes. OTOH I don't think there's a finer cartridge in a levergun and the BLR action seems to be potentially the most accurate levergun design. If I saw one priced right in good condition I probably wouldn't walk away from it. I've fondled a couple BLR's in .243 and contemplated sending them to JES for reboring to .358 Win.

[TXGunNut]

Got that batch of boolits checked & lubed last night, looks like I'll be shooting 35 Whelen AND 35 Rem this weekend.
Did you buy that BLR yet, 35 shooter?

[35 shooter]

Been thinking about it for a couple of years now and as far as that goes a rebore to 35 whelen from an 06 BLR. Maybe if i keep thinking about it a couple of more years the fever will go away.;) Either one in the takedown version would be pretty neat as an all around rifle. Good luck on your loads this week or weekend,hope i get to do the same.

[taco650]

I've been thinking about a rebore to 35 Whelen for my '06 Ruger M77. However, after reading this thread and others on the topic of 35 cals with boolits, I think the 358 Win or 35 Rem might be a better choice for all-around versatility. A rebore of my 30-06 is probably cheaper since I already have the rifle. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[35 shooter]

taco650 in bolt or lever actions .358 is a good choice for power in a short light action. It's all anyone could want for power in a short light package to me. There's something neat about working the bolt on a short action gun. The whelen's just a bit more with truly heavy boolits and i like the neck on the whelen for that purpose. Basically it's just the same old short action vs. long action argument and personal choice deal. Any difference between the two in the hunting fields will for the most part go unnoticed. As far as that goes there's not much that 06 you have won't do with a good 200 or so grain boolit.:smile: Like i've said before ..decisions...decisions....decisions[smilie=b:

[TXGunNut]

I've been thinking about a rebore to 35 Whelen for my '06 Ruger M77. However, after reading this thread and others on the topic of 35 cals with boolits, I think the 358 Win or 35 Rem might be a better choice for all-around versatility. A rebore of my 30-06 is probably cheaper since I already have the rifle. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

My thinking on the subject was that I had an old 30-06 hunting rifle that had developed bore issues after an awesome career. I also have a 35 Rem 336 that I'm pretty happy with but wanted a little more velocity and boolit weight. The 35 Whelen was the obvious play for the hand I was dealt. I don't have a 358 Win (yet) but I think, all things considered, that it may be the ultimate CB rifle cartridge for 95% of my hunting situations. I'll likely never be able to take advantage of all the 35 Whelen's capabilities but it's nice to know it's got more than enough horsepower for anything on this continent and most of Africa.

[TXGunNut]

Been thinking about it for a couple of years now and as far as that goes a rebore to 35 whelen from an 06 BLR. Maybe if i keep thinking about it a couple of more years the fever will go away.;) Either one in the takedown version would be pretty neat as an all around rifle. Good luck on your loads this week or weekend,hope i get to do the same.

I hope this isn't one of those opportunities you kick yourself over. Sometimes you have to walk away.
Just loaded up 10 HT 50/50 RD boolits and 10 HT WW boolits over 48 grs of IMR4895. Also loaded 10 HT WW Thors over the same charge. Also loaded up some 35 Rem loads with the HT 50/50 RD boolits. Should be an interesting range trip Sunday. Have fun!

[waksupi]

I've been thinking about a rebore to 35 Whelen for my '06 Ruger M77. However, after reading this thread and others on the topic of 35 cals with boolits, I think the 358 Win or 35 Rem might be a better choice for all-around versatility. A rebore of my 30-06 is probably cheaper since I already have the rifle. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

If you want a .358 or .356, you are going to need a new barrel, or set back the old one on the re-chamber, thread and fit operation/

[taco650]

If you want a .358 or .356, you are going to need a new barrel, or set back the old one on the re-chamber, thread and fit operation/

I've talked with JES about this very thing and he says no.

[waksupi]

I've talked with JES about this very thing and he says no.

Well, since the .308 parent case is shorter than a .30-06 case, how does he pull that one off?

[swheeler]

I've been thinking about a rebore to 35 Whelen for my '06 Ruger M77. However, after reading this thread and others on the topic of 35 cals with boolits, I think the 358 Win or 35 Rem might be a better choice for all-around versatility. A rebore of my 30-06 is probably cheaper since I already have the rifle. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes I think you are correct that reboring your 06 to 35 Whelen would be cheaper than rebarreling to 358 Win or 35 Rem

[TXGunNut]

If I wanted a 358 I'd wait for a rifle chambered for that cartridge or re-bore a levergun or short action bolt gun. If you're starting with the 30-06 the obvious and easiest choice is the 35 Whelen. JMO, of course. I'm sure the conversion can be done but a long action utilizing a short case just doesn't make much sense.

[taco650]

Well, since the .308 parent case is shorter than a .30-06 case, how does he pull that one off?

I'm sorry, I miss-read your original post. You're correct. I thought you were talking about 30-06 to 35 Whelen being a re-barrel situation.

[35 shooter]

TXGuNut, think i figured out the vertical stringing i had last week with H4895 and the NOE's. I was gonna try faster and then i thought about seating depth and put em into the rifling a bit more....problem solved. 2 groups on par the way the RCBS always shot that load. Sure looked better than those 6 and 7" vertical strings did the other day.:grin: Season opens in the morning and i haven't even been in the woods yet. May sit for a few hours then walk and scout and try to ease up on one at the same time.

[TXGunNut]

Glad that NOE boolit is working out for you, 35 shooter. Good luck if you get to go hunting.
Had a bad day at the range yesterday, a primary hunting rifle still having scope issues and my first hunting trip only weeks away. Ol' Ugly did just fine, tho. Thor boolit still a bit balky on the feed, edge of the meplat catching the back of the breech. Only issues were heat, temps in upper 60's and groups grew significantly after 3 shots so had to spend lots of time letting her cool down. Best group with the Thor boolit was just under 3", RD had nice 1" group that a hot bbl flyer opened up to 1.5" Barrel is floated but it just doesn't like getting hot. Hot bbl groups with the RD were 3", Thor much larger. I think I'll take the RD boolit hunting and play with the Thor another day.

[35 shooter]

I know how frustrating scope problems can be. Went thru 2 in 3 months on the whelen. Finally got a good one i hope.You'll get it all worked out. Seems like somethings always gotta be done kind of last minute when you have hunting season coming up.

Btw...I will be getting the THOR! Just want you to know it's all your fault.:kidding:

[TXGunNut]

Btw...I will be getting the THOR! Just want you to know it's all your fault. -35 shooter

You're welcome to use my mould for awhile, will be at least a few months before I get back to that project.
Hunting season is indeed upon us and the pressure is on to figure out which rifle(s) I'm taking. I swapped the old scope back on the 35 Rem and have a few take-offs that could work as well. Hadn't really planned on taking the 35 Whelen hunting this year but if the loads I assembled yesterday confirm my earlier results it looks like a go to me! No worries about having to use j-words to make meat, there's a Guide Gun around here somewhere that's rock-solid and ready to go at any time.

[taco650]

Btw...I will be getting the THOR! Just want you to know it's all your fault.:kidding:

Now that's "passing the buck"!

[TXGunNut]

Now that's "passing the buck"!

Just trying to help. ;-)

[35 shooter]

Btw...I will be getting the THOR! Just want you to know it's all your fault. -35 shooter

You're welcome to use my mould for awhile, will be at least a few months before I get back to that project.
Hunting season is indeed upon us and the pressure is on to figure out which rifle(s) I'm taking. I swapped the old scope back on the 35 Rem and have a few take-offs that could work as well. Hadn't really planned on taking the 35 Whelen hunting this year but if the loads I assembled yesterday confirm my earlier results it looks like a go to me! No worries about having to use j-words to make meat, there's a Guide Gun around here somewhere that's rock-solid and ready to go at any time.

TXGuNut i deeply appreciate the offer and consider you a true friend for doing so but it seems JT has his web up and running and says he will be making more moulds, so i'm good to go on that. If i can pop a deer with the NOE i may try to get one with the THOR next. :smile: I've got quite a few of them left. Thanks again for letting me try them....35shooter

[35 shooter]

Now that's "passing the buck"!

taco650 was that a subtle hint that i would make a good politician?:smile: Only problem is i've got better than a 3rd grade education so i'm over qualified for the job.:bigsmyl2:
Sure looks like a lot of "passing the buck" going on in washington right now huh?
Good luck with that .358 or whelen when you decide to make the plunge. I think you'll really like either one!

[taco650]

taco650 was that a subtle hint that i would make a good politician?:smile: Only problem is i've got better than a 3rd grade education so i'm over qualified for the job.:bigsmyl2:
Sure looks like a lot of "passing the buck" going on in washington right now huh?
Good luck with that .358 or whelen when you decide to make the plunge. I think you'll really like either one!

Go ahead and run for office. You'll be at least as good as anyone already there, probably better.

It will probably be the Whelen when I take the leap because I already have a 30-06 (unless I can pick up a cheap .308). Honestly, its pretty low on the priority list as I've got a daughter to send off to college in a just over a year. I've really enjoyed following this thread 'cuz the 35's always seem to be underappreciated as big game rifles. 338's have gotten a lot of glory over the past few decades and 35's were kicked to the curb by the big bullet/ammo makers. IMO, they both do the same job equally well except when you want to have plinker loads and then the 35 shines (with 357 mag bullets). Who makes a 150gr 338 pistol bullet? NOBODY!

As for the Thor boolit TX is playing with, it looks pretty mean but I'm reluctant to pursue it due to the feeding issues he's had. I think sometimes we get to enamored with a big meta-plate. Reliability and accuracy are the top things in my book.

[robroy]

I thought passing the buck was what you did when you had a venison roast for dinner:kidding:.
I've got too much going on to play with my 17 Enfield in 35 Whelen AI right now but I got the Thor with that in mind. Just for giggles I tried the Thor in a dummy round for 35 Rem in my 336. It feeds prety well and the boolit is a better fit in the throat as cast than RDs sized @ 359. I'm going to have to open up a lee die to 361 so I can seat checks. Didn't mean to hijack. I realy do appreciate the info on the Whelen.

[TXGunNut]

As for the Thor boolit TX is playing with, it looks pretty mean but I'm reluctant to pursue it due to the feeding issues he's had. I think sometimes we get to enamored with a big meta-plate. Reliability and accuracy are the top things in my book.-Taco650

Yes, my thoughts exactly. Feeding is iffy at best. At one time I couldn't get it to hang up, other times it hangs up twice on the way to the chamber. I've seldom needed a second shot but I'll always chamber one when approaching a downed critter, especially a big hog. Don't need any hangups or distractions in hunting situations. Midway got a few RCBS 35-250 moulds in and I'm toying with ordering one for the Whelen. Long tapered nose with a small meplat.
You're right about the "mainstream" gun market ignoring the .35 but true believers in the "silver stream" have always been fans of the .35 caliber cartridges, probably always will be.
Hijack away, Robroy! My next project is the Thor boolit in my 35 Rem 336. Someone posted about his results awhile back, if it's better than the RD boolit I'm all over it!

[taco650]

...My next project is the Thor boolit in my 35 Rem 336. Someone posted about his results awhile back, if it's better than the RD boolit I'm all over it!

It might feed better in a lever gun due to the lifter lining up the cartridge straight with the chamber. With a staggered stack bolt gun magazine it has to get centered at the same time it moves toward the chamber.

[Shuz]

I guess I'm just lazy and fergitful........what's the "Thor" boolit in .35 cal?

[TXGunNut]

I guess I'm just lazy and fergitful........what's the "Thor" boolit in .35 cal?
It borrows the "Thor" moniker because it's a scaled-up version of the popular 7mm Thor boolit.

87633

[TXGunNut]

It might feed better in a lever gun due to the lifter lining up the cartridge straight with the chamber. With a staggered stack bolt gun magazine it has to get centered at the same time it moves toward the chamber.

That's my thinking too. A little concerned about OAL, should be able to resolve that by building a dummy round.

[taco650]

Here's my latest distraction from a .35. .316 diameter, 224 gr cast from water quenched ranges scrap. It's for my 303 British, maybe 30-06 if I can size it down enough.

87736 87737

Sorry for the highjack!

[TXGunNut]

Don't apologize, tell us about that mold!
I guess the 35 Whelen is going hunting. Had some good, solid 2" groups today and that's about all I was capable of today so that load will have to do. It's the RD 359-190 over 48 grs IMR4895. I think it needs a bit more tweaking but it was too hot to get Ol' Ugly cooled down.
35 Rem won't shoot with the old scope either. Two scopes shifting POI over a foot @ 100 yds just doesn't make sense. Mounts are solid, but yes, I'm going to check them again. I have a couple more takeoff scopes but I've never shot either. Guess they can't be any worse than what I've been using.

[35 shooter]

taco650 that boolit looks it would go end thru end on a freight train!

TXGuNut just curious if you tried the 200 gr. NOE's

[taco650]

Don't apologize, tell us about that mold!

It's a brass single cavity made by machinist I met on this forum. He had originally made it into something else which didn't work out so he reworked it to what you see in my pics. He sold it to me because he really wasn't that happy with end product (he's picky about those things LOL). Compared to "factory made" molds it's... basic-no vent grooves, sprue is just a steel plate cut and drilled to fit. It will work fine for my old SMLE once I get a sizer and gas checks. I think it will penetrate like crazy. Haven't loaded any rounds yet so don't really know if it will feed from the magazine either.

Any suggestions on a load? I'm not into recoil like I used to be and that's why I prefer shooting the 303 over my 30-06. The only thing is brass is hard to find for the 303 and the headspace is off a bit on my rifle so it stretches more than it should. I only neck size. I'm thinking of going with a fast rifle powder instead of Unique. Thoughts???

[TXGunNut]

taco650 that boolit looks it would go end thru end on a freight train!

TXGuNut just curious if you tried the 200 gr. NOE's

Just preliminary, tried them as is in the Whelen. They feed a little better than the RD. I didn't check the hardness, are they WW or 50/50?

[TXGunNut]

Any suggestions on a load? I'm not into recoil like I used to be and that's why I prefer shooting the 303 over my 30-06. The only thing is brass is hard to find for the 303 and the headspace is off a bit on my rifle so it stretches more than it should. I only neck size. I'm thinking of going with a fast rifle powder instead of Unique. Thoughts???

Got any 2400?

[taco650]

Got any 2400?

Unfortunately not. All I have on hand now is Unique, 296, IMR4320, RL22 and some Goex 3f black. My powder supply is quite low actually and the nearest GS to get more is 45 miles away and the last couple times I've been in they had nothing but bare shelves :-(

I'd really like to get my hands on some AA5744 or that stuff cowboy shooters use.

[bearcove]

use Unique

[35 shooter]

TXGuNut those NOE's were straight ww. Got plenty on hand if you come up with a load for em. Again i hate to here about the feed problems you've had. I know that's been aggravating to say the least. Guess that's an advantage i have with "old contrary", she's a single shot. She'll feed anything....sloooowly!

[bearcove]

Its like PP slide one in easy and it shoots. Run it through the mag and cycle through the action maybe.

SO, Pick what you want to shoot first and put it there. Fill the mag with rcbs 200's. Usually I hunt single shots so don't find this a problem.