Krag: TNX for twisting my arm!

[blixen]

Took my Broke-Back Krag sporter to the range for the 1st time today. Pleasantly surprised.

I had three loads to try as you can see in the photos. I didn't do any load development whatsoever--just wanted to see if the gun would shoot at all.

That Red Dot group at 100 yards surprised me. The boolit is a .311-sized Lee 185grain cast out of range lead.
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Here's my problem--I'm just about out of Red Dot and can't find any. I've got a jug of Green Dot on the shelf, though. Does anyone know if that will produce similar results to Red Dot?

My dirty secret: I bought new brass, but I haven't been able to find a used set of 30-40 dies (or new), so I used a .303 (.311) neck sizer just to expand the neck, then carefully pushed the slugs in tight with the .303 seating die. So I was also fire forming to the chamber. I guess it worked.

Anyway, thanks to the guys who encouraged me to scrape up the $ to buy this beat-up Krag.

I repaired the worst of the stock cracks (thanks to tips I found on this site). Fortunately, the damage was from a side impact and affected the area around the magazine, not the wrist. I epoxied the cracks and pillar-bedded the action—which is a fancy way of saying I epoxied in steel tubes for the action screws. I also filled a gap at the rear of the tang using JBWeld reinforced with door screen. I know: low-rent. I'm not trying to "restore" the stock--I'm just "rehabilitating" it. Even after I refinish it, my repairs will be obvious for the world to see.

[rintinglen]

Nice! I've used Herco, Unique and Red Dot, but never green dot. However, I think somewhere between 10 and 13.5 grains should give you a useful load, though exactly what level of accuracy you'll get is beyond me. Still, that is how we learn stuff.

[leadman]

I have and am still using Green Dot. Just a little slower than RD. Works great.
Glad you are getting an old gun back in good enough shape to shoot again. Looks like it is shooting just fine.

[blixen]

I have a 70s Lyman reloading book that has no Green Dot data for 30-40, but has it for 30-30' .303, Argentine, etc. that shows pretty much the same loads for Green and Red. Funny, the powders physically look very different. I was expecting cute green flakes in the GD.

[fa38]

If your Green Dot does not have cute green flakes in it, it is not Green Dot

[blixen]

Duh. I looked in better light--little green dots.

[smkummer]

remember Alliant Promo is loaded grain for grain the same as red dot. But you have to check every new lot and weigh it.

[PS Paul]

I've seen printed somewhere on this forum that GD is powder that started life as RD, but was a little slower once formulated, so the GD branding is then given.

I use both powders ALMOST interchangeably....... It's a tad slower, so when I have no data, I reduce from a max load by 5 to 10 percent, then go from there. It has served me well a long time.

[uscra112]

I'm using Blue Dot in my Krag. Lower peak pressure for a given velocity. Good accuracy. Madsenshooter has told me that some target competitors he knows are using Blue Dot.

But if Green Dot is what you have, start with your Red Dot load and work up. It won't take much.

I kinda doubt that Green Dot is just slow Red Dot. Red Dot is a good bit bulkier.

[madsenshooter]

Several shooters in MI, where they're shooting on a reduced range, use a recipe I came up with for 168gr jacketed, or cast. For cast, 20gr of Blue Dot will get you 2000fps, jacketed requires a couple gr more in my rifle. They're shooting some good tight groups with the load without dealing with the recoil of a full powered load. I've used it myself at 200 and 300yds. Since what matters is where the bullet hits, not how fast it gets there, works pretty good in the 118yr old rifle.

[PS Paul]

I'm using Blue Dot in my Krag. Lower peak pressure for a given velocity. Good accuracy. Madsenshooter has told me that some target competitors he knows are using Blue Dot.

But if Green Dot is what you have, start with your Red Dot load and work up. It won't take much.

I kinda doubt that Green Dot is just slow Red Dot. Red Dot is a good bit bulkier.

You know, I thought the same thing about GD vs RD when I read it here, but it might just be another of those shooting wive's tales. he he.....

I'll have to look for the post, but it was only two or three weeks ago on this forum.

Nevertheless, the info about being a tad slower than RD seems pretty accurate and I have, in leiu of GD data, used RD and worked higher. Seems to have worked well in a few Mausers and .45 Colt, as well as .357 for me.

[blixen]

This discussion has been very helpful for me.

I shot some levels of Green Dot today 10 grains up to 12.5.

Here's the best of the lot. AT 100 yards: 1.5" group with 12grains GD (not counting the fouling shot) and a 2" group with 11.5 grains of GD.
After firing a few more groups, it seemed that all the loads shot pretty well--except the 12.5grain group strung vertically in about a 3" group.

(Before I could get an idea about the lighter loads--some knucklehead elk-hunter-for-a-day shot up my target with a .300 win. mag making it impossible to say for sure whose holes were whose.)

My conclusion pending shoot some more groups is that GD and RD perform about the same outta the ol' Krag. I love reloading the 30-40. that long neck makes it easy. I'm still loading without 30-40 K dies--using .303 brit to expand the neck and set the boolit.

QUESTION FOR SOMEONE WITH A BALLISTIC CALCULATOR: I shot 5 of the 12 gr. load at a 200 yard target. Got one hole very low and stopped wasting ammo. How much drop would this load--zeroed at 100 yards--have at 200 yards?

[PS Paul]

Hey, that ain't so bad!! In fact, pretty outstanding, in my assessment. Good work for an introductory workup!!
PSP

[blixen]

Hey, that ain't so bad!! In fact, pretty outstanding, in my assessment. Good work for an introductory workup!!
PSP
Thanks. I think that's about as good as my 60-year-old eyeballs can do with open sights. I don't think a different powder, lube or charge is going to make any difference.

[PS Paul]

You know, I got to thinking about it afterwards and it dawned on me you were using iron sights!! By God, you are right: likely NO amount of experimentation with components will better THOSE results!! Seems like you just struck gold on the first go-around.......

[helice]

To give you an estimated answer to your question of bullet strike at 200 yd.s
I estimated velocity to be close to 1500'/s, barrel length 24"??
Ballistic Coeficient about .320??
Lee's ballistic calculator says dead nuts at 100 will print 6.24" low at 150 and 18.11" at 200 yards.
This is based on a lot of estimates so don't ponder it to hard. It's just the best I can do.:-o

Man don't you love the Krag. It was one of Col. Jeff Cooper's favorites and one I have looked for
for years. Settled for an o3A3 but the search is still on. Glad you got this one but I confess to my
coveting heart. :oops:

[blixen]

Thanks. I realized the Web has a couple ballistics calculators available. Estimating a velocity of 1400 fps and a poor ballistic coefficient, i got about a 25 inch drop at 200 yards + or - 6 inches. I didn't expect that much. my shots were south of the paper.
I need to crank up that old Redfield peep sight.

[helice]

It is always best to know the true velocity but when one doesn't know it one can always estimate. I confess that I estimated on what I thought was the high side. I have used a couple sheets of blue print paper stapled to a tall target set at 200 yards. Helps me see where I am printing and if the boolit has lost stability. Your calculation of 25" + or - 6" gets near the 18 inches I predicted. Using 1400 foot seconds in the Lee calculator I get 7.6" down at 150 and 21.5" down at 200. So you are in the ballpark. Only shooting will reveal the true "rainbow" of your trajectory.
Shoot some more groups like the ones above and post them. They make me grin. I do admire the Krag.:smile:

[blixen]

84223

I took on 200 yards with the Krag. The drop wasn't as much as I expected--about 15 inches. I could hear the thwap of the boolit hitting about a sec after I squeezed it off. :-)
It was overcast and I couldn't get as good a sight picture as I had hoped. I cut a triangle into a 8.5x11 black sheet. It's hard to see the holes in the black but it's about an 8-9 inch group.

Next time I'll try a big X.

Oops: that's 12 grains of Green Dot, not 16.

[DanM]

Your sights look exactly like the set on my Krag sporter. Redfield no gunsmithing rear mounts into the hole left when the magazine cut-off is removed. They were top of the line for the 1920-40s. Have been told that they are worth some money. I like them too much to consider selling them. Would like to find the right hood for the front. Don't really need it, but it would complete the cool look of the rifle....DanM