A Stevens Barrel/cartridge Problem.

[Chev. William]

I am posting a duplicate query here in hope of receiving answers to my problems.

On a 'Whim' I bid on and won an auction for a "Stevens Favorite barrel in 25-20".
I just this evening received the used Barrel in the USPS Mail and find that it has a chamber that does not match what is marked on the barrel.

First the barrel description:
It is a half round-half octagon design about 26 inches long with an 8 inch full octagon section. The Muzzle end measures .807 inch diameter with a square flat end.
The round section measures about .942 inch diameter just in front of the Octagon section.
The Octagon section measures about .972 inch across the flats.
The Breech end has two diameters with threads on the middle third.
The section near the octagon measures .800 inch diameter, the threaded area seems to be .790 inch outer diameter, and the breech end measures .740 inch diameter. The 'spigot overall length measures 1.553 inches, with the .740 inch section about .695 inch long.
Markings on the barrel are:
"J. Stevens A. & T. Co.", "Chicopee Falls, Mass.U.S.A. PAT. APR. 17 94" on the top flat.
"25-20" in 'roll stamp script' on the next flat.
and "61 674" just forward of the bottom flat.
No other markings were found.

The chamber measurements do not match what Ammoguide has for either "25-20' cartridge, nor does the Cartridge Identifier tool come up with a match.
Dimensions measures so far:
Chamber depth = 1.175 inch.
Chamber shoulder diameter = .279 inch.
Chamber base diameter = .279 inch.
Chamber rim cut diameter = .348 inch.
Chamber Rim cut depth = .053 inch.
Barrel slugs .250 Bore and .257 Groove diameters.
Note that one of my ".250ALS" loaded cartridges will go into the chamber as found. But the barrel is 'oversize for the bullet, a .250 Diameter 50 Grain FMJ RN design.

I am hoping someone with more experience with the older cartridges will be able to help me identify what this barrel is designed to fit (action) and fire (cartridge).

Best Regards,
Chev. William

PS: The Bore cleaned up very smooth and shiny with good sharp rifling apparently all the way to the chamber cut. It did slug a little easier near the muzzle end 9last inch or so). Chev. William

[Bent Ramrod]

It appears you have a barrel for a Stevens No. 44. As to the dimensions of the chamber, I can't find any standard .25 chamber that has those dimensions. You ought to make a chamber cast.

[uscra112]

Your given chamber dimensions correspond nicely with the .25 Stevens (long) rimfire, but the groove diameter is too big. You sure have a funny one there !

That's surely a Model 44 barrel, and the 44 was made in large numbers chambered for .25-20 Stevens, later called .25-20 Single Shot by Winchester to distinguish it from their own .25-20 WCF. Stevens never marked their barrels with anything more than ".25-20". Groove diameter was typically .257, but you find them as small as .253, so it's said by people who should know. I have several, and none of mine are that small.

The straight walled .25-21 Stevens cartridge had a nominal base diameter of only .300", but that case was a little over 2" long, and your chamber is still way too small for it.

Is there any sign that your barrel has been set back? I'm wondering if somebody tried to make a .25 rimfire barrel out of a .25-20 Stevens centerfire, and discovered too late that the rimfire boolit was too small for the grooves.

[uscra112]

Should have mentioned that it might be a barrel for a Stevens 44 1/2 - they look a lot alike, but the shanks are slightly different. Can't remember the exactly dimensional differences now, my CRS is kicking up.

[Chev. William]

It appears you have a barrel for a Stevens No. 44. As to the dimensions of the chamber, I can't find any standard .25 chamber that has those dimensions. You ought to make a chamber cast.

Presently my Gunsmith is about 20 project behind and is trying to get ready for some Movie Work the end of October and beginning of November that is using up his time, my projects are 'back burner' to save me money so will be delayed for his paying work, both with Movies and with Gunsmithing.
I will probably get a chamber cast sometime around late November or December if I ask him then, I respect his need to make money when work is available so will nt press him for it now.

By the way, I just got two days work with a chance of a call back for this coming Wednesday so Life is Good for me at the moment, about 30 hours in two days at $36.60/hr plus overtime is very good for my finances.

Best Regards,
Chev. Williiam

[Chev. William]

Your given chamber dimensions correspond nicely with the .25 Stevens (long) rimfire, but the groove diameter is too big. You sure have a funny one there !

That's surely a Model 44 barrel, and the 44 was made in large numbers chambered for .25-20 Stevens, later called .25-20 Single Shot by Winchester to distinguish it from their own .25-20 WCF. Stevens never marked their barrels with anything more than ".25-20". Groove diameter was typically .257, but you find them as small as .253, so it's said by people who should know. I have several, and none of mine are that small.

The straight walled .25-21 Stevens cartridge had a nominal base diameter of only .300", but that case was a little over 2" long, and your chamber is still way too small for it.

Is there any sign that your barrel has been set back? I'm wondering if somebody tried to make a .25 rimfire barrel out of a .25-20 Stevens centerfire, and discovered too late that the rimfire boolit was too small for the grooves.

Uscra112,
A setback barrel is a possibility, the 'spigot' has no 'rust' on it but is not a fresh cut surface, more likely weeks or months old, at least.
The breech end is clean, no 'dings' from use, and has a partial 'burr' around the outside edge.
The chamber to rim rebate edge is not exactly sharp, possibly champfered edge?
The rim rebate cut has a almost perfect right angle corner to it so is possibly of recent cut.
The extractor notch is almost without use markings but has not been champfered along its edges.
The Distance from the 'dot' following the 'CO' of the roll marking to the "spigot" end of the Octagon is about .92" on this 8 inch long Octagon section.
There is a difference between markings on a 1894 series barrel and this one, there are two "m" marks on the 1894 series markings, one at each end of the manufacturer name and address marking, that do not show up on the barrel in question. These may be "embellishments" to 'bookend' the marks on the 1894 series barrel.
What is the normal Octagon Section length of a typical 44 or 44-1/2 barrel?
My Gunsmith has the four other used barrels I had purchased earlier so it is difficult to check for me. From your description at least one of the other barrels is probably also from a similar model action.
I do remember the partial octagon section of the 1894 series Favorite is shorter and not a full octagon, having just 5 sides, with the lower section round.

Another detail, the bottom flat, about 1-7/8 inch back from the transition from round to octagon has a dovetail cut in it. Does this help identify the model?

I did receive and reply to your PM.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

RE: The identification of my 'new' barrel.
I have received several suggestions of what action it is for and what cartridge it is chambered in.
The general consensus to date is that it may be a set back and chamber cut Stevens Model 44 Barrel.

It is confirmed that the barrel 'spigot' is a match for the Model 44 dimensions, so that is most probable Action intended intended to receive it.

The Chamber dimensions, it is believed match those of the .25 Stevens Long RF cartridge however the Bore and Groove diameters are larger than is used for that round.
The .25 Stevens Long RF uses a bullet of .250 to .251 nominal diameter, inside lubed.
The Bore dimensions seem to be correct for the 25-20 Stevens, or as others called it , the 25-20 Single Shot, which did use a .257 nominal diameter bullet.

Perhaps someone else had the thought to use it as a Center fire conversion to a 'mildcat' of the .25 Stevens and then found to late that the bore dimensions were not right for their project?

Now there is what should be done with it?
Should it be the beginning of a project to develop a 'Heel base' bullet of .257 or so diameter to fit in a 1.124" or so case length and chamber in a 1.175' long chamber?
Should it be again cut to a new chamber for some other .257 diameter bullet using cartridge?
Should I 'unload it' to someone else?

It has a Very Good Condition bore after cleaning it, with smooth and shiny insides and sharp rifling the full length from Chamber to muzzle.
When I slugged it with a "Ranch Dog" design .25ACP bullet, from chamber to muzzle, driving it through with a 3/16 Hard Brass rod and mild hammer blows I found it even in tightness until about an inch from the muzzle end, where it felt slightly looser than the rest.

Inspecting the slug with a 20 power magnifier, the rifling cut sharp edged grooves in the driving bands almost to the bullet nose diameter and the drive bands, including the 'swell' of the nose before the first driving band, showed contact with the full diameter of the barrel grooves. It seems it would seal, and possibly shoot well even with this bullet size, if the bullet is not reduced in diameter in the loading process. An obvious problem with a cartridge that requires some tension on the bullet to retain it in the case.

Pondering on this, I surmise that a heel based and heel lubed bullet design similar to the Accurate Molds 31-090A, but of around .258" maximum diameter and with a .250" diameter heel would work. The heel length should be about the same as the seated depth of a .25ACP bullet and the driving band should be about .050" long to fit the bullet in a 1.125" long ".25 Stevens CF" case and still chamber in the 1.175" cut chamber as found, unless the case used is trimmed to a shorter length.
Note: Accurate molds does not make molds below .300 bullet diameter at this time according to their web site.
The nose could be a 'bore rider design and extend into the rifling as it slugged at .250".
A bullet weight of about 67 to 75 grains would be interesting for this barrel, especially since it seems it is for the stronger Model 44 action rather than the 'Favorite' action. The stronger action would allow loading to higher chamber pressures and resulting muzzle velocity than would be useable in the 'favorite' action even with improved strength pins and screws.

The resulting cartridge would retain the powder chamber volume to hold between 9 and 10 grains of Black Powder so could still be named perhaps ".25-10 Stevens Center Fire" ("25-20 SCF") and, if loaded with a nominal .251" diameter bullet, still used in the 'Favorite' action and barrel/chamber combination.

What do the other members of the Forum think of these ideas?

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Bent Ramrod]

Check in Frank DeHaas' Single Shot Rifles and Actions for particulars on your barrel. He has illustrations of barrel shanks, their dimensions and threadings in the appendix. All the 44 barrels I've seen for the .25-20SS are marked ".25-20." I haven't seen many 44's in .25 rimfire, but those I remember seeing were marked the same as the Favorite barrels: ".25-Stevens RF."

Your chamber might have been bushed and reamed out again. If so, there should be a parting line at the breech where the old chamber was bored out. Could you post a picture of the barrel and the breech end?

You will need an action to put the barrel on if you intend to use it. Do you have a line on one? I notice that even Stevens 44 actions and parts are grabbed up pretty quickly, and go for inflationary prices, these days. Investing into specialty bullet moulds and case forming setups for new cartridges for the sake of only a barrel is not very prudent.

You could spare yourself unnecessary work by looking into the .25 Hornet or some of its shortened progeny, like the .25 Junior. These are .22 Hornet shells blown out approximately straight, looking like a small .32-20 in the longer versions, or a straight case in the shorter ones. You would not need to mess with heeled bullets and their quirks and would have a centerfire cartridge suitable for the Stevens 44, assuming you can get an action and the barrel fits it.

[Chev. William]

Bent Ramrod,

I have won an auction for a used copy of Frank De Haas book and am patiently awaiting its delivery through the USPS Mails.

So far, using a 20 power magnifier, I have seen no indication that the chamber nor the barrel have been either 'bushed' or 'lined', but that may be still a possibility as to be sure I would need to polish and etch the breech end of the barrel.

At the moment I have no prospect to obtain a 44 action to use with this Barrel as it is.

The barrel under discussion cost ~$95.00 shipped to me.

I do have another Model 44 barrel, with a poor bore, in .22LR that I picked up with intent to make a "bull Barrel" for a 1894 series action that is still as received in configuration. cost ~$65.00 shipped.

And I have purchased another "25 Caliber" one that is, from photos, a cut down one with the 'spigot' shape to fit a Model 44. In the photos indicate it has been cut back to the point of removing part of the roll markings (Mfg. marking stops after "J. Stevens"), Perhaps that one would be a better candidate for a 'Favorite' Bull Barrel project, I will see when it arrives. Cost ~65.00 shipped.

AS to the 'custom cartridge': I do already have prototype cases for a CF version of the ".25 Stevens Long RF" in both the RF size rims and some made up with .25ACP sized rims (These are called .250ALS for my development experiments). They are formed from .22 Hornet cases run through a Lee Carbide .25ACP sizing die and then machined for rim dimensions and trimmed to the needed length. So case availability is already handled. Another possible option for the "25-20" bore is to use slightly shorter cases loaded as blanks to propel a separately loaded bullet down the barrel to the target, this is a 'Bench Rest' technique I have read about.

At the moment I am thinking of passing the 25-20/.25 Stevens Long Barrel to a person who first offered it a home with his 'orphaned' model 44 actions, but have not made the final decision yet.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[john hayslip]

The barrel is not mismarked. It is chambered for the Stevens 25-20 which is a straight (and expensive) case, not available for years but now available from Bertram, and sometimes through Graf and sons. Dies for it are available from CH-4D. The Winchester is a bottle necked case. Brass and dies are readily available.

[gnoahhh]

The current chamber is way shorter than a .25-20 SS, hence the speculation on what it is.

I would just have it re-chambered to .25-20 SS and be done with it. Jamison brass (available from Buffalo Arms) is excellent. Forget the Bertram brass unless you like dealing with brass of indifferent quality. Dies are readily available, and 'standard' .25 bullet molds work well. Forget about having to deal with heeled bullets or any other reloading alchemy.

[Chev. William]

And I have purchased another "25 Caliber" one that is, from photos, a cut down one with the 'spigot' shape to fit a Model 44. In the photos indicate it has been cut back to the point of removing part of the roll markings (Mfg. marking stops after "J. Stevens"), Perhaps that one would be a better candidate for a 'Favorite' Bull Barrel project, I will see when it arrives. Cost ~65.00 shipped.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

The previously listed "obviously cut down" Stevens Model 44 barrel in "25(?)" caliber arrived today.
it is what appears to be another 25-20 caliber barrel with almost all of the chamber cut off and the 'Spigot' nearly finished in its re-cut. This 'spigot' has a .805" diameter next to the Octagon end about .55" long, then a 'thread relief' of about .76" Diameter and about .120" long followed by a threaded section .about .46" long then another smooth section .52" long and .75' diameter.
the next is a "cutoff' groove followed by a .72" diameter stub that contains the remainder of the original chamber, i think. Overall the barrel measures 23-1/8" from muzzle to the 'cutoff' groove and 24" overall.
The round front portion measures 15-5/16" and the remaining Octagon section measures 6.00" long.
Bore was very dirty as received, but several passes with a bore brush followed by patches cleaned out the dirt and surface corrosion that may have been present. It now looks shiny even before having an oiled patch run through it.
There is rifling visible full length of the barrel from muzzle to front of the chamber remainder. but it varies in visible depth, with the muzzle appearing to be the shallowest rifling. Slugged the barrel and it varied in force required over the length of barrel with both tight and loose spots detectible. The dimensions seem similar to the previously reported barrel. The exterior is 'black rust' stained over most of it surface. The stamping is even shorter than it appeared in the photos with the Auction. Mfg. markings end right at the beginning of the terminal "S" in 'Stevens, and just the left most tips of the second "S" in 'Mass.'.
The '25' caliber mark ends right at the rightmost tip of the "5". The "serial number" on the bottom reads "34 067" and there is a "2" stamped in the bottom octagon flat.
It appears to be a good candidate for conversion to fit a Favorite Action, it is already too far gone to be used on a Model 44 with pride.

Additionally, Tracking information indicates that my copy of Frank De Haas book arrived at he USPS Sorting facility in Bell gardens today, only one or two day to wait now, I hope.

Best Regards,
Chev William

[gnoahhh]

Hmmm.... If the rifling is that bad, I personally wouldn't waste my time installing it on a receiver without re-boring or re-lining it. The thing is, if it's destined to go on a Favorite action, you're cartridge selection is limited. I would be sorely tempted to line it for .22RF and be done with it.

[Chev. William]

Relining is a probable option, especially since the barrel is of a heavier "Scantlines" than the usual 1894 Series Stevens Favorite barrels I have seen advertized.

Eventual disposition will depend upon what I can afford to have done to it and by whom.

With the Selection of Actions (two 1894 series, rebuilt and upgraded with stronger pins and screws, and one 1915 action, still to be received in a lawful California Purchase Process) I will have available, the possible calibers and cartridge selections improves somewhat.

There are even the "tung in cheek" 'mildcat' heeled bullet variations on the .25 Stevens case and lengths. It is too bad this barrel's bore seems to be poorer in manufacturing tolerances than the one that promopted the start of this Thread.

As is, it would probably finish up as a nice "standard length" 1894 barrel but without full markings.

It would probably finish up as a short heavy 1915 Barrel also with the same markings problem.

The ~.800" minimum diameter of the barrel does lend itself to potential relining and possiblily extending, with a .30 caliber liner/turned down used barrel. I know That some .30 Carbine builders used that trick to get a newer barrel for a 'shot out' Carbine one, by turning down an good condition M1903 barrel and pressing it into a bored out Carbine barrel Butt end.

This is something to look into, especially if there are "good condition" long barrels available for low enough prices to make it attractive. I wonder how a Marlin take off 'Micro groove' might work IF in a suitable caliber and long enough to cut and chamber in a suitable cartridge?

Many things to consider and to 'ponder upon'.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[uscra112]

The barrel is not mismarked. It is chambered for the Stevens 25-20 which is a straight (and expensive) case, not available for years but now available from Bertram, and sometimes through Graf and sons. Dies for it are available from CH-4D. The Winchester is a bottle necked case. Brass and dies are readily available.

.25-20 Stevens is not a straight case. It is mildly bottlenecked, as a consequence of it being originated by necking down the .32 Wesson, which was a straight case. High quality brass is available from Captech International, (nee Jamison) and has been for several years. It is admittedly expensive, but actually easier to find that .25-20WCF these days, since it is always in stock at Captech. (BTW Bertram's stuff is not worth the money to ship it.)

[uscra112]

This is something to look into, especially if there are "good condition" long barrels available for low enough prices to make it attractive. I wonder how a Marlin take off 'Micro groove' might work IF in a suitable caliber and long enough to cut and chamber in a suitable cartridge?

Best Regards,
Chev. William

I had excellent success cutting a Marlin .22 barrel down for a Hopkins & Allen boy's rifle action. Picked up a couple more off evilBay, (before they got all anti-gunner) and haqve 'em lined up to rebarrel Stevens Marksman (Model 12) rifles if I ever get my lathe back in action. Takeoff barrels from Ruger 10-22s are a dime a dozen, but pick only a blued steel one - the stainless ones are harder than the hubs of hell. I ruined a reamer on one once.

A very-much-turned-down .30-30 Microgroove might make an interesting experiment with a .32 S&W chamber in it, on a Favorite.

[John Boy]

but those I remember seeing were marked the same as the Favorite barrels: ".25-Stevens RF." The 94 that I have is marked "Stevens 25" only and it is chambered for the 25 rimfire.
To the best of my knowledge - Stevens did not make a center fire caliber the 94 action - it being too thin for center fire pressures

[uscra112]

My .25 Rimfire Model 12 Marksman barrel is marked just "25-STEVENS", no RF in the marking. That barrel is almost smooth inside - will be replaced with one of the cut-down Marlin .22 barrels as mentioned above.

[Chev. William]

My .25 Rimfire Model 12 Marksman barrel is marked just "25-STEVENS", no RF in the marking. That barrel is almost smooth inside - will be replaced with one of the cut-down Marlin .22 barrels as mentioned above.

I am still pondering what I will do with the first 'model 44' 25-20 barrel.
Also I am looking for possible liner source to allow use of .25 Stevens size cartridges through the second 'model 44' 25 (-20) Barrel and extend it to at least 24 inches, or longer, 'Bull Barrel' again for bench and Off Hand Target shooting with one of my 'favorite' actions, not for any Hunting, My body does not like long hikes nor rough camping any more.

I had two days of work last week and have another work call for 0630PDT Thursday, My World is Good.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Jon K]

I had to take my Stevens 44 25-20SS apart after reading this thread.
All the sizes match my rifle...but for the chamber size.

You're lucky the groove diameter is .257, mine slugs .260. I'm using NOE .260 80gr GC, It drops @.2605 my alloy.

Jon

[uscra112]

Track of the Wolf has your liner: http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Search.aspx?search=liner

Scroll down to the ".25 Colt Auto" item.

[Chev. William]

Track of the Wolf has your liner: http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Search.aspx?search=liner

Scroll down to the ".25 Colt Auto" item.

A very Good Idea and thank you for the link. The .25ACP liner would have the correct Bore and Groove diameters, I assume, but the 1:14 twist is 'slow' for my intended use with heavier than 50gr slugs. I will keep it in mind, and I did note some interesting .30"/.32" liners listed also.
1:10 Twist in a 1/2 inch diameter liner sound good for the .32 Colt, a more modern twist for a wider range of bullet weights.
Lothar Walther also lists barrel liners.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[uscra112]

The .25ACP liner would have the correct Bore and Groove diameters, I assume, but the 1:14 twist is 'slow' for my intended use with heavier than 50gr slugs.

Unless you're planning to go past 90 grains or so, a 14 twist should be just fine. The .25-20 and .25-21 Stevens rifles both used 86 grain boolits, and many of them were rifled with a 15 inch twist. My .25-21 is one of those.

I looked at the Lothar Walther site and did not see any liners. Link? I'd love to have another source.

[Chev. William]

Uscra112,
The heading for custom shop seems to be: http://lothar-walther.com/357.php

The basic page I found my barrel blank is: http://lothar-walther.com/383.php then go to the Chrome-Moly Steel heading and the first blank listed is:
6,35mm/.25ACP, 1.024" Dia., 23.4" long, 6 lands, .243" Bore, .250" Groove, 1:9.8 Twist, $215.00 list price.

There are hints of what the custom shop can do by looking at other parts fo the web site, such as gain twist rifling listed for 'rimfire' barrels.

Under Rifle barrel blanks, U.S. system, there are even .30 Cal blanks with dimensions that would shoot our .32 Long bullets in either .308" Groove (twist rates of 8, 10, 12, and 14 listed) or .312" Groove (twist of 16 listed) at 26.3" or 28" stock lengths, they do make longer to custom order and will make liner diameters also to custom order.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

uscra112,
I hope you found the information on the Lothar Walther web page. I sent you a PM today.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Today is a Good Day,
My latest Ebay purchased Stevens barrel arrived and this one is a "keeper". it has about 90-95% thin blue all over, including the Tenon; the bore looks shiny and the rifling is all present with no obvious pits. I slugged it and the measurements are .245" Bore and .251 Groove diameters tight all the way from chamber to muzzle which is cut square and flat. It is marked "25-Stevens" and the chamber seems to be just that, one of my .250ALS cartridges goes in nicely all the way to flush with the breech face.
It does have 'ghost' double stamping of the "J. Stevens A & T Co." name and address but the caliber stamping is single strike and sharp.
The Tenon seems to measure .662" near th efr0nt and .660" to .661" at the breech face. the Rim cut is clean and sharp and the extractor cut is also clean and sharp.
The rear dovetail has slightly raised lips and the front dovetail lips are either flush or very close to it. All in all, I am very pleased with this 1894 series 22" long Half Octagon-Half round barrel.
Next I will be looking out for sights for it.
Best regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

The barrel that prompted the start of this Thread, a Stevens Model 44 marked as "25. 20" and actually having a chamber resembling a .25 Stevens RF, is on it's way to "uncra112" of this Forum Via Insured Priority Mail with return Receipt. He asked for it if I could not use it and he gets it.

I will now make use of the second one mentioned in this Thread, the 'bastardized cut back model 44 one, as a basis for an extension and a liner probably in .32 Long colt to go with a 1915 series action I recently acquired.

The latest and current purchased project to keep me 'out of trouble' is an old Craftsman 12 inch lathe that has been in a fire. it is a pedestal mount type with the drive from the pedestal under the head stock, has a 1.5x 8TPI nose thread with a 'Norton Quick change Threading Gear box on it. The two gear covers are partially melted into the gearing and some gears and the cover sill need to be replaced. The nose thread was covered by a nose cap with a MT3 center in place so was only heated to the point that it has a 'light Straw' color so may still be usable. The Timken Taper Roller bearings will need inspection for heat damage but the drive belts were untouched so the bearings may be OK. It has flat ways and they and the lead screw were covered with congealed melted roofing tar and grit as purchased, but is cleaning up nicely so far.
I have ordered one of the gears, and two gear change feed data plates to replace the 'Crispy Critter' ones that fell apart when brushed. The Sears model and serial number plate was only smoke covered and cleaned up beautifully.
I have high hopes for this $300.00 dollar purchase.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Ordering parts seems to have been 'confused' during the 'Government Shutdown' as the Chart plates and gear I ordered for the 12 inch lathe got to the Santa Clarita, CA Mail Sort facility and then were sent back to Sears as 'undeliverable as addressed', so Sears sent replacements via UPS this time, however only two of the three items were shipped the second time, with one listed on the invoice as 'out of stock' plus the gear seems to be the wrong one, perhaps my fault when I ordered it.
Oh well, things will eventually get sorted out.

I have continued to gather items to properly convert .32 S&W Long Brass to .32 Long Colt sizes and then hand load them. I now have a Lee 'push through sizing die' in each of the following sizes: .308", .314", and .323" and a purpose built .32 Long Colt Collet Crimp die and adjustable shell holder set. These are added to the .32 Long Colt Carbide sizing die and steel Seat/Crimp die I bought from "Hollywood Engineering".
Using dies on hand, I started reforming some Starline .32 S&W Long Brass into .32 Long Colt Brass.
The first five went well so I expanded the trial to 50 cases and lost five to 'crushing' near the last of the set being formed.
I guess this is due to the very small radius lead in to the die as used. I will need to try to modify a die to get more 'gather' capability for the last sizing operation, which is when the crushing occurred.
I now have 45 nearly completely formed cases out of 50 attempted to date.
The rims still need some trimming in a lathe to be complete, mostly to remove the displaced Brass 'roll' just above the rim.
These are in addition to the 100 already formed ones I bought on line to begin with.

I have also purchased some sights, which are en-route via USPS Mails, for the .25 Stevens "Keeper" barrel I previously bought on line.

Now I am looking for a really good .32 Long chambered Stevens Favorite Barrel to add to my collection of shoot-able Favorite rifles.

I do have a 'bastardized' Model 44 barrel I will be reworking into a Favorite 'medium heavy' .32 Long Colt barrel as it is too far cut up to be a 'Collectable' as a previous owner had already cut it down and started re-machining the Tenon and cut off most of the markings in the process.

I intend to buy a barrel liner in nominal .300" bore/.308' Groove and 1:10 twist to use in the project.
The purchase will have to wait until I get some more funds, possibly next month or even January.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

More good things have happened.
The Sears parts orders have arrived and are now with the lathe at my Friends, awaiting installation when it is cleaned up.
The first pair of sights I bought on line arrived a blade front sight and a spring leaf rear sight, and both seem to fit my "keeper' barrel nicely. I did need to buy an elevator wedge from "Numerich Arms" and it also arrived. It is narrower than the slot in the spring leaf sight and my need modification to keep it upright in the slot, but I will not know until the sights are mounted.
I am still waiting for the second rear sight I bought on line.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

The second rear sight arrived but it will not fit as it 'falls through' the barrel dove tail cuts.

The lathe clean up is progressing slowly due to the congealed melted roofing tar and gravel residue to be cleaned off all parts. I am looking for a top cover for the headstock as the original was partially melted in the fire.
The Spindle and headstock seem to have survived with minimal damage, mostly dried out lubricants. Two of the 'change gears' train were damaged by fire and will be replaced. the Norton Threading 'Quick Change' Gear box still has to be demounted, disassembled, and cleaned of debris and rust from soaking by fire fighting water. the detente handles are 'gone' so will need to be replaced, possibly by local manufacture as the are listed by Sears as 'discontinued'.
The drive belts seem to be OK as the spindle is in 'back gear' and will turn with hand effort and the 'under drive' protected the belts from most fire heat inside the pedestal.
Lead screw, saddle, and tail stock have been removed and disassembled for cleaning. the Zinc casting Oil hole covers were melted and will be replaced with new ones.
All handles and knobs were damaged in the fire so I have purchased replacements.
The bed and cabinet have been rough cleaned and will be getting a further detail cleaning and repaint.
The electrics have not been touched yet, but will be getting a thorough inspection and possible replacements before power is applied. the flexible 'portable' power cored was 'burned' in the fire and is mostly missing anyway. the remainder fo the wiring was in armor conduit so its condition is unknown yet.
It was fitted with a three phase motor so additionally I will nee dto convert to single phase drive, possibly with a phase converter electronic drive system for variable speed control.
Joe said he thinks he used a two horsepower motor on it but is not sure as it was many years and many machines ago, he just said he had no trouble with it since he installed it.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[uscra112]

Pictures of the lathe?

[Chev. William]

I do not have any 'Before' photos of it with all the roofing tar etc on it.
I have not taken any 'in process' photos either so far.
Since you asked I will try to get some soon and find a way to post them so you can see what I am talking about.

How is your project with the barrel coming?

As an interim thing look for photos of a Craftsman Commercial 12 inch by 54 inch bed length 'under drive' lathe mounted on a Cabinet base (Sears model 101-26990). The lathe has two 'V' belts from the cabinet mounted speed change and motor belt drive up to the spindle that come through a hole in the 'drip and chip pan'. I believe there are some on Google Images.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Pictures of the lathe?
I now have some photos of the lathe project in my Camera, next is finding a cable to sue to try downloading them into my computer before then uploading them to some site on the web.

I Received today two 1915 Breech Blocks and one Extractor/Ejector for spares to use with the 1915 action I had purchased earlier. They are overall smaller than the one that came with the 1915 action although the same outline shape. Interesting. I now have three spare Breech Blocks that do not match up with the original 1915 action.
It seems my 915 action has a larger diameter BB pivot screw than is usual.

I am waiting for delivery of some other parts and another Barrel, a.32 Long one for the 1894 actions.
I am hoping this one will have a very good bore and reasonably clean exterior. I believe from the auction photos that this one is probably "Plum Patina". It is one of the series that has the knurled and threaded ring to adjust the 'head space'.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[uscra112]

I believe from the auction photos that this one is probably "Plum Patina". It is one of the series that has the knurled and threaded ring to adjust the 'head space'.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

Did Stevens do that for a Favorite? New one on me. Link?

Phil

[Chev. William]

This is the second barrel I have purchased with the knurled and threaded ring on it.
If I remember correctly, I read somewhere that it was an idea used on some middle range production of the 1894 Action rifles. I do not currently remember where I read the information but I do recall that it was only done for a few years then dropped when a different way was tried to take the 'slop' out of the action and stop the 'lever droop' from occurring. on my current example the adjustment is very short, only around 0.100" at best, as the total length of the ring is about 0.150". The thread is reasonably fine so the adjustment would be relatively fine over the range and it is locked in position by the wood forearm bearing upon the knurled surface. This example is on a ".32 Long RF" chambered barrel. I have not checked if the barrel has enough Tenon length to allow much adjustment use, it may have been 'faced' in the past. I do know that if inserted in my 1915 action it leaves a Gap between the Breech face and face of the Breech Block, so is too short as received for that action. Theoretically it would be possible to cut the threads further along the barrel toward the muzzle and gain enough adjustment range to get the two Breach faces to 'two block' flush, I will need to talk to my Gunsmith to see if he has that ability and tooling for fine pitch large diameter threading. The Barrel coming is also a '.32 Long RF" chambered one, I am hoping for better bore condition in it s I am 'Questing' for a Very good bore in .32 Long to match my 'keeper' barrel in .25 Stevens Long RF chambering.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

The latest purchased "32-Long" Stevens Favorite Barrel with the knurled adjustment ring arrived this week, I am just getting to look at it as I had two Days of Work this week so my Christmas is looking up.
In my opinion, looking at it in Florescent lighting it appears to be original Blue that has weathered to a Brown somewhat mottled appearance. there are rough spots on from use, perhaps dropping on rocky ground at some time. It still has both fixed sights in place. The breech face seems to have been pounded upon as it appears 'mushroomed' and the end measures .667" diameter while the Tenon about 1/4 inch forward measures .655" diameter. Overall length is 21-5/16" and the 'half octagon section measures just under 7-5/8".
This barrel has rifling present and very light 'pitting' in the bore.
Overall it is not as nice as my 'keeper' .25 Stevens barrel but is somewhat better than the other .32 Long Barrel I have here at home. I believe this one will clean up and be usable but it is not my hoped for 'keeper' .32 Long barrel, so I guess I will still be looking.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

My new Accurate Mold 5 Cavity .32 heeled inside lube bullet mold came in the USPS mail Friday. It is marked with the numbers "311090A" which is probably the code assigned to the dimensions of my requested bullets, which are slightly smaller than the catalog 31-090A diameters to better match my Stevens Barrel bore and groove diameters.
The barrel slugs at .299" bore and .305" groove while I requested the mold to be made with heel diameter of .303" and Driving band diameter of .311" I also asked Tom to add back the 'lost' weight in a cylindrical section of .300" diameter added between the ogive and the front of the driving band so that the final bullet will still end up at 90 grains weight.
This was Confirmed by Tom at Accurate Molds via Email yesterday evening, the "311090A" is the actual bullet diameter plus the basic design number.

Now I need to ship the mold to "Matt's Bullets" to get them cast and lubed. I will let you know when I receive the first lot of the new bullets.

I also have done more 'inspection' on the newest Stevens Barrel purchase, a 1894 one in .32 Long RF with the Knurled and Threaded ring intended to adjust head space.
It is in reasonably good condition with no 'blue' finish remaining as it is an almost uniform brown patina with some dings from rough handling over its lifetime. The bore as received was dirty so numerous passed with a brass bore brush cleaned out the 'crud' and revealed a bore with few 'pits' and showing thin but complete rifling for its full bore length. The chamber appears to be smooth and without 'rings' or 'pits'. Both a front and a rear fixed sight were still on the barrel so it may already be 'sighted in' as received. The breech end does appear to have been mushroomed slightly to gain some diameter as it measured .665" near the breech and .657" about a 1/4" forward of the Breech face. Since the Tenon supposedly be about .660" diameter to fit the receiver socket, this seems reasonable as afield expedient to get it a tighter fit. The muzzle is flat but rough with 'dings', again from apparent rough handling. I may re-cut the crown it after first trying it for accuracy. The retention socket for the take down screw tip is slightly stepped and lengthened so may have been cut deeper and forward after the 'mushrooming' of the breech face. I will need to refinish the barrel eventually if it turns out to be an accurate one.
Further measurements of the chamber found it to be 1.158" deep and .346" in diameter, much too large a diameter for .32 Long RF or .32 Long Colt: BUT it is .013" larger than the base diameter of a new unfired Starline .32 S&W Long case (.333" diameter). It seems I now have an 1894 Barrel that has already been opened out to take a .32 S&W case, no wonder the chamber looks so smooth and free of 'pits' or 'rings.

Now comes the Quandary: do I leave it as a ".32 S&W Long" barrel; or do I fit a Chamber bushing to reduce it back to ".32 Long Colt"; or do I go the expensive route and put a full liner in it with .300" Bore/.308" groove and buy a .32 Long Colt chamber reamer set to cut the new chamber?

I believe the Bushing route is the cheapest revision, but I would still need to have the chamber reamers to complete it, and the liner/chamber reamers route would be the most expensive.
Of course leaving it as a ".32 S&W Long" chambered barrel is the least costs mode, although that is a lower "Figure of Safety" condition for possible future owners of the Barrel/firearm.

I now have a used Butt stock temporarily fitted to my 1915 action and I have tried the new barrel in the action also, finding that there is a noticeable gap between barrel face and Breech Block face, which may indicate that I will need to get the barrel reworked to get proper head space back.

I slipped on a wet kitchen floor just after Thanksgiving and tore the front Thigh muscle in catching myself. Now my foot, ankle , and back of the Calf are showing 'blue bruise' coloration from leaking blood cells (I have been on 'Warfarin Sodium' for blood clots for several years) also my lower leg, ankle, and foot are showing 'bloating' so I know I am still 'leaking blood plasma' from the torn muscle, which formed a bump on the front of the leg about 9 inches above my knee. I have been trying ot keep the leg elevated to help the drainage but it is not easy as I am single so I have to move about for normal daily routine. I also had two days of work this week so my Christmas will be looking better when the paychecks arrive in the mails.

I hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving and will have an enjoyable Christmas and New Years Holiday Season.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Did Stevens do that for a Favorite? New one on me. Link?

Phil

Rereading the thread, I just noticed the "Link" request.
"Wisner's" web page in his descriptions of the various Stevens 'Favorite' models he mentions the Knurled Ring as one of several methods sued to correct for head space and lever droop. it seems to have used with middle years production of the Favorite.
Best Regards,
Chev. william

[Chev. William]

Christmas Day I won and paid for an Ebay Auction for a Shilen Stainless Steel Match Grade Rifle Barrel Blank in .308 caliber. It is listed as 26+ inches in length and 1.25 inch in diameter with a 1:8 twist. The end is stamped "Shilen .308 S x x 6 8".
I am thinking it would be a good candidate for use as a .32 Long Colt Bench Rest barrel for my Stevens 1915 Action.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

My Shelin 'used' Match Grade Stainless Steel Barrel Blank arrived and it is Heavy, at about 8 lbs, and in the Heat Treated color finish and as manufactured dimensions (28-1/8" long by 1-1/4" diameter). The bore is mirror smooth and the rifling is narrow lands with wide grooves, similar to Stevens Barrel rifling.
nominal dimensions are .300" bore with .308" groove diameters.

Shelin States that "Our Match Grade barrels don't quite meet Select Match criteria-- but not by much! In these barrels, the bore must measure within .0005" of our standard diameter and cannot vary in diameter more than .0003" for the length of the barrel."

I have not yet 'slugged' it to see what the actual measurements are.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Over the last few days, 'uncra112' and I have been exchanging off forum emails about the internals of the Stevens 44 and Stevens Favorites with the purpose of documenting usable dimensions for making replacement parts to fit these old receivers we have that are 'short' internals.

So far we have about half of the Breech block information needed and I have been converting them into working AutoCAD 2000 drawings.

From information I received in a Telephone call to CPA, they have castings for the Lever, un-machined, and uncra112 compared a 44-1/2 and a 44 lever he has on hand and found that the two could be machined from the same casting, with the 44 pivot hole larger than the 44-1/2 one.

From his measurements, my layout indicates that the firing pin hole in the Breech Block is bored on a 17 degree angle to the horizontal, and that either the 44 contour or the 417 contour could be made from a common 'near net shape' blank and that by making the rear face radius slightly larger, we could make the replacement Block better contact the back of the Breech Block slot when in 'Battery" to provide some added support.
EDIT: My error in interpreting his measurements, the angle is 11 degrees rather than 17 degrees. The drawing file has been corrected to reflect the new angle.
Chev. William

Also, from photos of the later "Safety Hammer" we can work out dimensions for a Hammer replacement that would support he rear of the breech Block against rotation out of 'Battery' upon firing of a cartridge.

this is an on-going project between us and I hope it will lead to my being able to document the internal parts of the 44 and to eventually making parts for my Receiver, which came stripped.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

PS: I still have a '44' barrel in 22LR so eventually i will need to get my 'stripped '44' receiver populated and set up. I also purchased a "44" butt stock and will need to wait until I can try it on the Receiver. I looks the same size as my 'Favorite' butt stocks which has me wondering if it was mislabeled by the seller.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

More progress in the drafting of the Breech Block (BB), we have started laying out an offset Firing pin bore to allow change from RF to CF by just removing and rotating the Firing pin half a turn. It appears that if the bore is off set about.070" to the side of the BB center line (C/L) and a 'bushing with two holes' is used in the front of the BB, a firing pin of about .250" diameter with an offset tip can hit a CF primer in one orientation and all three (.22, .25, and .27) RF rims/primers correctly in the other orientation. This is encouraging, as a firing pin retainer could be a long tip of a screw threaded pin which would allow relatively easy switch over.

More work is needed to refine the firing pin concept into useful drawings and finally into working metal.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I won an EBAY auction for a "New Old Stock" Stevens Model 44 Center Fire Breech Block so My 44 Receiver is progressing.
Also, I ordered screws and Pins for it from "Muzzleloader Builders Supply", purchased a Lever from "Jack First", and some extractors from "Wisner's" all of which should be here in about a week or so.

Late last week I ordered some Swiss Black Powder from "Buffalo Arms", and found out they have a 5lb minimum order for BP, so I got 1lb "Null-B", 1lb 4fg, 2lb 3fg, and 1lb 2fg to meet the minimum. The shipping and HAZMAT fees added about $60 to the bill, but it is scheduled for delivery by FedEx Tuesday.
I will have a range of BP to test with when it arrives, I already had 1lb of GOEX 3fg on hand. In the small charges we are using this should last for a reasonable time. This is added to my stock of Smokeless Powders already in use for other cartridges I load and shoot.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[uscra112]

By the time you are done you could have just bought one complete for less money, but where's the fun in that ? :bigsmyl2:

[Chev. William]

My BP order arrived at 1735 PST today and now I need to ask Buffalo Arms why they substituted one lb of 1fg for one lb of 2fg.
How well would 1fg work in a .25ACP Cartridge???
Or in a 44-40 Cartridge??
This is the range cartridges I have to load for.
The other four cans of powder were as ordered.

I guess the Storm(s) that have been working across The USA may have something to do with this.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Bent Ramrod]

Chev,

Nominally, the lower the Fg's the slower burning the powder is. But Swiss is very quick burning in all its granulations, giving higher velocities than the same weights of most other black powders. It should work fine in the .44-40.

[Chev. William]

Bent Ramrod,[/B][/B]
Thank you for that comment, it makes me feel a lot better about this Swiss 1fg I received. Previously I have used both "Pyrodex CTG" and GOEX 3fg in my 44-40 loads so now I will try some of the 1fg in this cartridge, in my original Winchester 1873 rifle.

What do you think of 1fg in the .25ACP cartridge? probably around 4 to 5 grains depending on what will fit, I previously have loaded 4.5 grains of GOEX 3fg in them with 'interesting' results out of a Raven pistol, I still need to try them out of a rifle.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[uscra112]

Confirm what Bent Ramrod said. Maine Powder House recommended Swiss 1 1/2 for .32-40 cartridge use.

[Chev. William]

My "new old stock" Stevens 44 Center Fire Breech block, my order of "44" pins and screws from Muzzleloader Builders Supply, arrived and I am happy to report some of the items fit as received, others are slightly larger than the holes they should go through but are within 'reaming' range to fit tightly for little lost motion in the action.
- The Breech Block Pivot Pin and Pivot Screw fit the receiver holes tightly but are about .002 big for the Breech Block hole.
- The Lever Pivot, same as BB Pivot, is slightly large for both the Receiver holes and the Lever I have.
- The Hammer Pivot Screw fits the Receiver hole tightly, but I do not have a hammer yet to try.
- The Trigger Pivot Screw does not fit the Receiver holes.
- The firing pin retainer is very tight in the Breech Block and also the threads for it, so fitting may be needed later.
- The Breech Block seems to fit my receiver well, side to side, and front to rear but the up and down will need to wait until I can work the Pivot Pin through both the Breech Block and receiver holes simultaneously.

As to my two 1894 Actions, more delay as my Gunsmith's wife went into the Hospital Thursday. I do not know the cause nor the results.
I believe other things are set aside in times of personal worry, and I agree with that.

My 1915 action is on hold for the moment, waiting upon Pacific Tool and Gauge to complete my .250ALRM Roughing Chamber Reamer, to go with the Finish Chamber Reamer they did last year. I am not using the Finish Reamer until I can rough the chamber first, I do not want to dull or chip the Finish Reamer in a raw bore.

I received the order of Swiss Black Powder from Buffalo Arms with one 'little' problem, they 'substituted' 1fg for the 2fg I ordered.
I have already talked with Buffalo Arms and we came to a understanding on what will happen, so I am satisfied.
This means I now have Swiss in 1fg, 3fg, 4fg, and Null-B to experiment with along with my previous stock of GOEX 3fg and Pyrodex "CTG".
I also have several types of modern Smokeless Powders I have used or planned to experiment with so I am now well positioned to do the necessary powder loadings for my .25 calibers and my .32 Calibers.

I have a supply of .312" to .315" 90 grain heeled bullets in two designs, and a supply of .255" 51 grain Lead bullets along with some .25" Jacketed bullets. The experimental loadings will be made up when the weather here drys out and gets warmer as it is done on my back patio which faces to the North, not the Warmest nor calmest at the moment.

I did buy a second 1915 Receiver, but it appears to have been 'Bubba' Repaired in the past, further inspections will wait until after the 18th when I can pick it up from my FFL dealer due to California Regulations. This one does NOT have a visible serial number nor other markings, has partially cleaned up weld at the body to lower tang joint cleaned up Braze at the body to upper tang joint, and a heavy boss at the end of the lower tang with a screw fitted between the two tangs, which are close to the same length as I remember it from when I saw it during filling out the transfer paperwork.
For $45 plus $5 shipping and $89+ for the transfer, it was 'inexpensive'; but may be unusable as is for a firing arm. Wall hanger maybe?

Now Back to the 'mundane', getting ready for Tax Preparation, replacing shredded shelter canvas, Getting my dogs to Vet for annual checkup then getting their licenses renewed for the year. keeping ahead of the mushrooms popping up in my back lawn, etc., etc.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Pacific Tool and gauge charged my Credit Card finally, so I believe my Roughing reamer is on the way.
Yea!
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Today, Thursday March 14th, the latest Auction win arrived at my gunsmith's shop. It is an abused Stevens 44 partially stripped action in that it came with the Breech Block/firing pin missing and the Lever/Link separated but the "Bubba'd" pivot pins were still with the action, along with the Hammer, Trigger, with their pivot screws present.
I was able to get the two pivot pin/screw assemblies out of their holes and was allowed to bring them and the Lever/Link assembly home with me. the rest will have to wait until the 10 day waiting period is completed.
The "Bubba'd" slots in the two pivot screws for the Hammer and Trigger will need an Impact wrench applied after a soak in penetrating oil, unless 'Bubba' riveted the other side to keep them tight.
This receiver has a serial number on it (35xxx) with "44" and "0" stamped in the front face. The two spring screws appear to be present but the springs are not. Overall it has a dark brown/black 'rust' finish with pitting, near and around, the serial number stamping.
I put the items I brought home to soaking in the small amount of "Enviro-Rust" I have left from cleaning up 'fire damaged' micrometers for Joe Mueller of "Hollywood Engineering" one mike is still soaking, with the Stevens parts.
I am still waiting for the PTG Roughing Chamber Reamer (.250ALRM) to arrive.
And I used most of my remaining funds this month to Pay Rent, and Vehicle Insurance payments. So will not be driving much nor buying supplies the rest of the month.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

More 'toying with the Lever, Link, and pivot pins/retaining screws I brought home.
The Enviro-Rust did not do anything visible so it is probably "dead" by now as it had been used to clean up some fire coated Micrometers and Calipers and was s-l-o-w at the end of that project.

Ran a Brass bore brush, chucked in an electric drill, through the Lever Pivot hole(s) and the bores changed from Dark brown to a more red color, then the Bushing in the Lever came loose on the brush.

Each Pin, chucked in the drill, was 'polished' using a Scotchbright Green pad with mixed results, some parts of the pins are now showing shiny metal but other areas are still lumpy Brown deposits.

Then I tried the pins in the Lever pivot hole, again with mixed results. one pin will go through the Lever, the other will only start in one side, this with the bushing back in the Lever.

The retaining screws seem to be, again, mixed results. One will go all the way to the bottom of the threaded holes but the other only goes in about two threads. I will try to figure out what thread they are and see if I can 'chase' the threads to clean the 'sticking' screw up. Even then, the "Bubba'd" slots argue for replacements.

Little else except House Chores, water the lawns and shrubs, etc. today, a nice relaxing warm afternoon here. Today's high was reported as 88 Degrees with an 8 knot NE wind.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I received an order from Numerich of some '44' parts that turned out to be the last of them Numerich has.
A hammer, a trigger, a Link, a Lever Pivot Screw having external threads, a firing pin screw, and a Barrel Screw.
It turns out the Lever screw is slightly smaller than the two pivot pins I previously purchased and also the two from the latest Receiver purchase. It will pass through the hole in the NOS Breech Block so I can 'mock up' the action in the Receiver now.
The Breech Block fits up tight to the shoulders of the Breech slot rear with the pivot screw in the receiver and BB holes.
The lever and link seem to fit also.
The hammer striking face covers the Firing pin hole completely.
The Trigger and hammer seem to work together so may only require light fitting.
Eventually I will get the BB pivot hole reamed to fit the new pivot pins properly.
The hammer pivot screw head is slightly oversize for the Receiver counter bore so it will need some polishing so it will properly fit its seat.

I will measure and document the hammer and trigger BEFORE any fitting is done to them.

Since these, Hammer and Trigger, seem to be NOS parts, perhaps I will offer them to one of the Suppliers to copy.

Decision at a later time.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Today was spent selecting and fitting pivot screws and pins to a couple of my Receivers and working with a Recalcitrant Beta Copy of Mozilla Firefox (Beta29.01).

A "Bubba'd" 1894 Favorite got four pivot screws fitted temporarily to it.
The Breech Block Pivot Screw is threaded to far onto the shank as the threads would be fully in one "ear' of the Breech Block, reducing the support for it.
The Lever Pivot Screw has the correct thread amount (about one thread) showing inside the Receiver so the Lever would receive maximum support of thread free screw body, or Grip.
The Hammer Pivot Screw both threaded to far and too long for the receiver width, showing about four threads inside and one thread outside.
The Trigger Pivot Screw is similar to the Hammer one in length and threads showing inside and outside.
Now I need to go through my internal parts to see if anything would fit this receiver.
I will eventually need to get some new screws with longer Grip and shorter threaded section to properly support he various internal parts.

The other one is a Model 44 receiver that was in dire need to new pivot pins and Screws also.
The Breech Block is a NOS one I bought off of Ebay and I used an adjustable reamer (size 7A) to ease its pivot hole out to very closely fit a new pivot pin I got from "Muzzleloader Builders Supply" along with several other pivot parts.
The Lever Pivot pin did not go in the Receiver holes until they were also reamed out. but just went into the Lever pivot hole.
The Hammer Pivot Screw head would not go into the Receiver counter bore so I 'dressed' it down until it would properly fit.
The Trigger Pivot Screw actually fit as received except for being half a thread too long.
My Breech Block is actually too long to close in this Receiver, so I will need to 'dress' its rear face down to make it an exact fit in the BB Slot against the rear shoulders.
I will need to make or find a firing pin to fit but I have a used Firing Pin Retainer Screw that does fit the BB.
Hammer and Trigger are still in limbo, do I use the ones I bought from "Numerich" as is or first use them as patterns to get more made? Or do I hold out for "Safety Hammer" to copy?

All in all it was an interesting day.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Picked up another Stevens 44 Receiver after the waiting period expired. It is the second "Bubba'd" receiver I have acquired. this one has the hammer and trigger still in it as the pivot screws were locked in the receiver, possibly peened over to lock them from loosening? Anyway My Special Effects Friend got the hammer pivot screw far enough out so it is no longer engaging the threads in the receiver but it is still 'stuck' in the hole.
The Trigger screw head disintegrated when we tried the same method to try to remove it so I will be 'Drilling out' this one.
Looking in the empty openings, it seems the hammer may be missing part of its Half cock notch; but I will not know for sure until I can get it out of the receiver.

Today I also completed reaming a Dummy Chamber for my .250ALRM cartridge, and the reamers worked better than I did (as an 'Amateur' unpaid gunsmith apprentice). the cartridge sample goes in snugly right up to the rim being slightly below flush with the 'breech end' which is probably correct as the rims on the samples are not at exactly .050 thick. I still need to get a 'extraction groove' cut into it so I can pull the cartridge out by the rim instead of pushing it out with a long pin.
This is basically a .25ACP but the case length is 1.250" (.250ALRM). I also have some .250ALS cases (1.125" long) and some .250ALR cases (1.050" long) that are part of a planned experimental testing group to see what can be done with this small diameter straight walled family of cartridges using .251" nominal bullets in .250" Groove Diameter Barrels. Lead Bullets would run around .253" to .255" for these cartridges. On the light end there are 35 grain HP bullets available, most bullets are around 50 grain and I will need to get a mold for a 65 to 69 grain bullet to explore the range further. By the way my Blank test barrel has 1:9.4 Twist according to the maker.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Saturday, I received a 'Used' Butt Stock to go with my 'used' 44 Receiver. It is actually probably in-letted for a 44-1/2 Receiver but Sunday was spent scraping the tang slots out to allow my 44 Receiver tangs to seat in it. The Top tang hit the end of the slot while the bottom tang has a space left at the end of it's slot.
Some Photos of the stock:
http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/Stock44LeftSideFigureDetail_zps10bd95a4.jpg
http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/Stock44LeftSide20140330_zps416c5cbe.jpg

And soem photos of it partially fitted to my Receiver:
http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/2fd58dbd-e197-4caa-bba5-dd37412b65b4_zpsc6dad607.jpg
http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/bed98b86-b0b4-4064-9966-4af8b939a865_zps70e7a9b8.jpg
http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/1025774c-0c10-41ec-b9f5-fdb05732c56d_zpsc1bafb4d.jpg
http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/31b34db0-979c-4127-b122-9e7be2a834d2_zps4e133e9b.jpg
In the photo of the bottom of the Receiver-Stock pair the gap at the end of the tang slot is visible.
This was an unplanned purchase so I will be 'shorting' my Utility Bill Payments this month.
Oh, the frustrations of trying to Live in the current Economy, with the Current Administration not allowing the COL Retirement payment nor Veteran Disability payment increase to cover the increased actual Living costs, including Tax increases and so called "ObamaCare" added Taxes, etc.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Further on the Cartridge selection process:
I received an order of sample 25-20 SS basic Cases from Buffalo Arms and they measure as follows;
Body diameter = .315" at base and .312" near the mouth.
Rim diameter = .375".
Rim thickness = .048".
Mouth inside diameter = .295".
Derived Neck thickness = .0085".
Primer pocket diameter = .175".
Primer pocket depth = .127".
Case length = 1.799".
Inside case length (mouth to web) = 1.538".

I believe these will make good parent cases for .32 Extra Long (both RF and CF) cases by trimming the length and turning th erim diameter down to fit.

This now gives several parent case candidates for .32 "Colt" family cases:
.32 S&W Short with heavy resizing to yield .32 Extra Short and .32 Short RF adapter cases (also .32 Short Colt CF cases).
.32 S&W Long with heavy resizing to yield .32 Long RF and Cf cases of various lengths to fit different heeled bullets and rifle chamber lengths.
.327 Federal With heavy resizing to yield .32 Extra Long Rf adapter cases.
.25-20 SS basic cases with Trimming to yield .32 Extra long CF or .32 Extra Long RF adapter cases.

Now we have potential sources for the cases to make all these chamberings in Rifles, and pistols for that matter, "speak' again.

Only ready available bullets remain a problem for the shortest ones and for the Longest one, except we could use the 87-92 grain sizes in all of them with some differences from original loads and ballistics.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Thursday, April 3rd, i took a photo of my Stevens '44' Receiver mocked up with the stock and a Stevens '22-LR' barrel and the proposed future Stainless Steel barrel above it. The proposed barrel is a used 'takeoff' Winchester 700 (This was from the original Auction description, it is actually marked as a Model 70) chambered in .300 Win. Mag.; so cutting off the chamber and turning a Stevens '44' tenon plus cutting the chamber for one or more of the '.32 "Colt" family' is needed. The finished barrel would end up about 22-1/4" long, muzzle to Breech Face.
http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/Stevens44mockupassembly_crop_zps5f986a91.jpg
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

The Winchester Barrel is now cut down and has a newly turned Stevens '44' Tenon Customized to fit closely my Stevens 44 Receiver.

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/20140407_Pictures001_crop_zpsf91820e2.jpg

I may need to make a 'collar' to add between the Barrel shoulder and the Receiver, both to act as a 'stop' for the Barrel as it now threads into the champfer of the Socket, and as a possible attachment for a 'Sleeve or Shroud' to allow free floating the full length of the barrel while allow forward support for the rifle.

Now I need to decide the Cartridge and obtain Chamber Reamers to match.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Wednesday was a Good Day for me. My Direct Deposit Social Security Retirement money arrived; I filled out the Transfer paperwork on two Stevens Favorite receivers and paid for them;
My gunsmith was able to Save both the Trigger and the '44' receiver I had the Bad Luck to have the Trigger pivot screw head disintegrate while trying to remove it; and he has made some progress on a two year old project to convert a NOS Winchester M1 Carbine Receiver to take a .45 Win. Mag. Barrel Blank as the Barrel is now threaded and will screw into the Receiver.
This Blank still needs a lot of machining to get it functional with the Carbine Receiver which is planned to be done in stages with the first stage to make it ready as a single shot straight pull action for 'proof tests' before further machining to fit a Gas Block/Cylinder and sight(s) to it. The end is intended to be a 26" rifle with an old 'Fajen' 'Manlischer Monti Carlo' style stock I have set aside for the use.
I also made a run to a 'Big Box' store adn bought $250+ of food for the first part of the month, prices are high on food now, unfortunately, and the price of food or Fuel is NOT included in the Government 'Cost of Living' calculations at all.
I still need to get the 'little things' like Milk and Eggs and Meats for the Month yet.
Today I am waiting on an ATT U-Verse Technician to visit as my TV service is not working right although the phone and internet seem to be OK at the moment.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

By the time you are done you could have just bought one complete for less money, but where's the fun in that ? :bigsmyl2:

I 'think' the end costs would be much less that a new CPA 44-1/2 Rifle AND there is the learning experiences along the way tokeep my mind active.

Yes, the 'Fun' is a major part of any 'kit building effort' also.

I remember my Brother bought a Heathkit Color TV Kit and assembled my family's first Color TV and we enjoyed it for many years.
My father had assembled, then disassembled and stored, one of the 'original' Ed Heath Kit Airplanes just before the October 1929 Stock Market 'crash'; a Heath Super Parasol. Which gave him enjoyment at the time and useful knowledge to help him find work through the 'Depression', my parents married in 1934 and had my brother in 1936 so they did have 'fun' in the times.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Over the last few days I have reformed some .32 S&W Long Brass to .32 Long Colt diameters and some .22 Hornet Brass has been started on the reforming process to make '.25 Stevens' size cases (.276 diameter and varying in length from .515" up to 1.36" cases). Now I am waiting again for my nest infusion of funds (retirement seems to be mostly waiting time now).
I have had no Work Calls since end of December and the Union Dispatcher says he has had none incoming this year yet, Not A Good Sign at all, for those of us still needing income 'improvements' to cover increases in Taxes, Fuel and Food costs (which are not included as part fo the "Cost of Living Calculations" by the Federal Government).

From my perspective the "Free Trade Agreements" and "Most Favored Nation" Import Duty agreements have done more to Export Income and Jobs to other nations than to actually Improve our nation's economy.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

added 2014JUN12: the new minimum length for the .25 Stevens sizes will be used for some cases that neck split when being expanded from used .22 Hornet Brass. The Splits cleanded up at just over .760" case length so I took some down to equal the .25 Stevens Short length for giggles, and left most of them at .750" for an 'intermendiate" length Stevens cartridge 'wildcat'. Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I have submitted my .750" case length ".25 Stevens "Intermediate" in both RF and CF Type 'Wildcat' for inclusion in "Ammoguide Interactive" Cartridge data base. Now to wait and see if they are accepted.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

Added 2014AUG12: Still no response on the submittals, I guess it did not qualify. Chev. William

[Chev. William]

To update: I have been able to reform some .22 Hornet Brass to .25 Stevens sizes and some .327 Federal Magnum brass to .32 Extra Long sizes. A few of both have been made into Adapter cases for .22RF Blanks.
The Adapters are first pilot drilled using a combination Pilot Drill and Counterbore for #8 Cap Screws.
Then the pilot hole is enlarge with a #2 Drill Bit.
Finally I run a ".22LR 'Freebore' Match Grade Chamber reamer in to bring the bore to a tight push fit on the Blank cartridges, which are .22 CAL. Powder Tool Load Blanks of from Grade 1 to Grade 5 levels.

The Blanks are inserted using my Thumb to start and my "RC" press to finish pushing them flush with the rear fo the Adapter.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

There has been a Long period of "low discretionary Funds availability for me this year so little progress has occurred on my projects.
I did get to test two rifles and return them to my gunsmith for problem corrections.
Also my 1916 "Modified" Favorite has a new firing pin fitted and at the Gunsmiths for heat treatment.
I have been able to purchase a "long Range" Tang Sight for mounting on one of my '44' actions, a 'Side Extractor' one that is assembled from 'bits and pieces' picked up 'here and there' over the months.
It is presently set up as a RF style action but I am thinking of having it converted to CF Style and then using it to test "lengthened .25ACP" experimental cartridges in a Stevens .25 Stevens Barrel. The Bore and Groove diameters for the two Cartridges are the same, just the difference of ignition style is holding me back. I would like to be able to switch between the two styles, RF and CF, in the same Breech Block, now I need to work out how to cut the Firing Pin Bore to allow that.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Small incremental progress in spite of lack of Spendable funds.

I have the Side Extractor '44' action sitting around attached to its butt stock and have a set of Extractor 'blanks' marked and waiting for funds to get them finished for several Cartridges.

I have collected enough parts to assemble another, newer, '44' action with a 'NOS' Breech Block (BB). The BB is now 'tightly fitted' to the receiver, it 'drags/presses' on the Receiver Shoulders as it is brought up into battery, checked with thin lacquer coating on the BB being scraped off by the act of closing Action.
The BB Pivot Pin is .293", along with the Lever Pivot Pin, the upper Link Pivot is a 3/16" "nominal" Dowel Pin and the lower Link Pivot is a "oversize" 3/16 Dowel Pin. Hammer pivot is a New Screw, along with the Trigger pivot. Now I need to "fit" the trigger "pivot to Sear" length to properly hold the hammer in "Half Cock" clear of the Firing pin tip and still engage at the "Full Cock" position.

I have 200 hornet cases that are expanded to .25" neck ID and 200 more to do to this stage. I want to get all of the cases expanded before I start the Sizing process.

This is the Time of TAXES and Fees that need to be paid so I am hoping for some Work Calls.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Today I received an Ebay purchased Used Original Stevens '44' Trigger and it fits my action without adjustments.
I will save the Welded one for a spare.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Yesterday's mail delivery brought me my new CPA Rifles Model 44 forearm in Grade 3 Wood to go with the used Paul Shuttleworth 'Bench Rest' Butt stock I previously won on an Ebay auction. This forearm is the Single screw type for a Half Octagon-Half round '44' barrel and it fits my used Stevens "44" barrel in ".22LR" Very Nicely. The 'figure' in the wood is somewhat visible under the machined but not sanded surfaces and looks like it will finish up Beautifully. There is still some sanding to be done on the area just behind the 'Schnabel' tip as my fingers found a slight rough spot there.

Another item to be decided is whether or not I want to fit a Detachable Swivel stud to the Forearm; I have an M1A with a detachable swivel stud that takes a Biped rest if I desire.
IF I do, I will also need to figure out where the Stud should be located on the Forearm.

In the interim, I can admire it.

Best Regards,
Chev. William