Trap Door Carbine found in Attic. What to do with it?

[JesterGrin_1]

It was just wrapped in News paper and the bugs liked the bore to hide in lol. I tried to scrub it but the rust took its toll on the bore over the last 60 or so years where now it just looks like a straight sewer pipe. But since the action had grease in it and on the trap door. The trap door works fine as well as the hammer and trigger. I was amazed that the trigger felt so good lol.

Any ideas what to do with it without spending a boat load of cash?

[country gent]

This is a piece of history and may command value even in the shape its in. Consider starting out with an apprasial of it by a gunsmith as to value.WIth out pics its hard to determine condition. Trapdoors can be valuable depending on model caliber and several other things

[JesterGrin_1]

will put up a couple of pictures in a moment. :)

[JesterGrin_1]

I could not see anything that says caliber? It still has a water mark I guess you would call it on the left hand of the stock behind the trigger.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/trapdoor004_zpsf214a82b.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/SHAKERATTLEROLL/media/trapdoor004_zpsf214a82b.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/trapdoor002_zps18c8cb6b.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/SHAKERATTLEROLL/media/trapdoor002_zps18c8cb6b.jpg.html)

[JesterGrin_1]

It is a Model 1873. So what I have found thus far on the net says it is a 45-70?

[scb]

You might find this interesting. http://trapdoorcollector.com/
I'm not sure if this can be re-lined or not. You might want to check with John Taylor http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?2728-John-Taylor I think he may do this kind of work. He's done a couple of projects for me and his work is excellent and prices are reasonable. I'd think carefully before doing anything with it that might affect it's value. If it were mine I wouldn't have a problem re-lining it but some would. "Watermark" properly called a cartouche.

[JesterGrin_1]

But as is it is only good as a wall hanger or paper weight lol. If it does not shoot it is worth O to me lol.

[montana_charlie]

The vintage of the newspapers it was wrapped in should give an interesting clue to the last time it was handled.

[PS Paul]

You might be surprised what a bit of cleaning and care can accomplish with a bore that looks like a sewer pipe...... Underneath, provided the GROOVES are somewhat sharp or defined, you might have a shooter-grade there.

But like was suggested above, it might pay to see if there is any additional collector value........

[JesterGrin_1]

Nothing there no grooves nothing. :(

[JesterGrin_1]

The vintage of the newspapers it was wrapped in should give an interesting clue to the last time it was handled.

There was not enough to read lol. I could just tell it was News Paper lol

I was told probably around 60 or so years lol.

[country gent]

Im wondering . Ive seen 2 trapdoors that the rifling was reamed out of and 410 shotshells used in them instead of 45-70 rounds. This may have had that done to it at some point. Both of the ones I have seen were full rifles I even shot one as a boy. They were a rough conversion but did work. A good cleaning of the barrel may actually give an idea of what there is. Kroil mixed 50/50 with shooters choice New bore brushes and scrub. Alot of elbow grease brushes and patches may reveal something.

[kitsap]

But as is it is only good as a wall hanger or paper weight lol. If it does not shoot it is worth O to me lol.

You might be really surprised. Don't do anything dumb until you know the value. What is the serial number?? Such as 123XX.

Doug

[JesterGrin_1]

4526xx

[CanoeRoller]

You really need to take that to a Gun Smith or appraiser. That might be quite a bit more than a simple wall hanger. I think that serial number might put it in late 1875 as a date of manufacture. Some real Trap door collectors may be able to give you a better idea than that.

[waksupi]

With the saddle ring intact, don't do any serious cleaning. You may have a pretty valuable collector piece there.
I wouldn't do anything serious about the bore until you shoot it, either. Last weekend I shot an original Belgium fowler, with an absolutely horrible bore. We found it shot round ball very well!

[M-Tecs]

It’s hard to tell from the pics but it looks pretty good on the outside. If it’s real carbine and not a made up cut down it would start at $1,500.00 for a junker and it could go up a lot more for Custer era. With only one X Serial number puts it at 1875 to 1876 so it $3,000.00 may be on the low end unless it gets dicked up by improper cleaning. With two X's it's 1889 or 1890 and after the date for carbines.

http://www.gun-data.com/springfield_trapdoors.html

http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/FAQ.html

[kitsap]

4526xx

Here is a web site with a serial number look up option. The dealer will e-mail you the results.

http://www.trapdoors.com

The guy in charge is Keith Rush and he is trustworthy. There is a phone number on the home page. Close up pictures of the action, rear sight, and the stock marks (known as a cartouche) are helpful.

I will second the comment above, don't mess it up just trying to do something in a hurry. It has set for several years in the same condition.

Doug

[JesterGrin_1]

It’s hard to tell from the pics but it looks pretty good on the outside. If it’s real carbine and not a made up cut down it would start at $1,500.00 for a junker and it could go up a lot more for Custer era. With only one X Serial number puts it at 1875 to 1876 so it $3,000.00 may be on the low end unless it gets dicked up by improper cleaning. With two X's it's 1889 or 1890 and after the date for carbines.

http://www.gun-data.com/springfield_trapdoors.html

http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/FAQ.html

The last two xx are actually numbers. I just remember people saying that one should not put the whole number on the internet. If I am wrong please by all means say so and I will add the two last numbers.

[JesterGrin_1]

There is no way I can start to even try and shoot it. Unless I have a chamber reamer to clean up the chamber first. I tried Hopps No.9 and a wire bore brush with little effect.


With the saddle ring intact, don't do any serious cleaning. You may have a pretty valuable collector piece there.
I wouldn't do anything serious about the bore until you shoot it, either. Last weekend I shot an original Belgium fowler, with an absolutely horrible bore. We found it shot round ball very well!

[JesterGrin_1]

I found his web site and input my model number. It says I should hear something back in 1 or 2 business days.


Here is a web site with a serial number look up option. The dealer will e-mail you the results.

http://www.trapdoors.com

The guy in charge is Keith Rush and he is trustworthy. There is a phone number on the home page. Close up pictures of the action, rear sight, and the stock marks (known as a cartouche) are helpful.

I will second the comment above, don't mess it up just trying to do something in a hurry. It has set for several years in the same condition.

Doug

[JesterGrin_1]

The funny part and the sad part is that when I removed the stock the barrel and action have a very nice blue there but the rest oh my gosh. I wish the underside was the top side lol. :)


It’s hard to tell from the pics but it looks pretty good on the outside. If it’s real carbine and not a made up cut down it would start at $1,500.00 for a junker and it could go up a lot more for Custer era. With only one X Serial number puts it at 1875 to 1876 so it $3,000.00 may be on the low end unless it gets dicked up by improper cleaning. With two X's it's 1889 or 1890 and after the date for carbines.

http://www.gun-data.com/springfield_trapdoors.html

http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/FAQ.html

[richhodg66]

Any idea the story behind the rifle or who put it away all those years ago? Sounds like an intriguing story may be there.

[Reg]

It is post Custer. It doesn't have the "long grip". Just the same it may be a nice piece but needs to be carefully looked over. A ton of them were cut back rifles.

[JesterGrin_1]

Any idea the story behind the rifle or who put it away all those years ago? Sounds like an intriguing story may be there.


Nope no real story to it lol. It belonged to my Fathers Wife's Dad and many years ago he just threw it up into the attic and there it stayed till years after his passing. When we were cleaning out the house a bit is when it was found and I saved it from the dumpster lol. As everyone else said it is just an old rusted rifle. But I thought heck maybe it can be saved and used again.

[M-Tecs]

I have always had a soft spot of Trapdoors. I have a couple of nice originals and a hand full of parts guns. Real carbines stocks with the original finish bring big money. Better pictures would be helpful.

I am currently building a carbine parts gun and I have been looking for the saddle ring and bar. A nice original set will go for $150.00 to $200.00.

Rough shape infantry rifles are a dime a dozen but original carbine stuff even in rough shape has significance value.

If you don’t want to mess with it post it here. I think you would be surprised at the level of interest it would bring.

[JesterGrin_1]

Well from what I have been told that to re-barrel the rifle with a good bore original would run about $400.00 or so or to have a Brand New barrel contoured and fitted would be around the $500.00 mark. I like many others do not have funds falling out of my pockets sorry to say. So I am just wondering if it would be worth the money to do this or would I and the rifle be better off selling it to someone else that likes to mess with these kinds of things?

I just thought that it would make a dandy carry rifle and hog gun now and then. :) But as normal I could be wrong lol.

What kind of pictures would you like?

[M-Tecs]

If you are going to sell it pictures with enough clarity to judge the condition of the stock and metal will be required to determine value. The first thing to establish is if it’s a real carbine stock or a cut down rifle. A good quality picture of underside front of the stock would be helpful. Pictures of cartouches help also. Good examples here http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/TrapdoorStocks.html

Next would be pictures to determine the condition of the other parts.

[JesterGrin_1]

I contacted Keith at Trapdoors Galore and he informed me it was made in 1889. And it is a Carbine. He informed me that he could re- barrel the rifle with a good bore pull off of which would not effect the value except to raise it due to it being made into a good shooter again and he will clean it up.

Now to figure out if it is worth the $450.00 to me to do so. I know once fixed it will be a $1500.00 rifle. But I do not fix things for Re Sale just for personal enjoyment.

[John Allen]

Jester, here is my 2 cents as a collector of Trapdoors. Leave it alone and sell it. If the bore is as bad as you say the chances of getting it to shoot even decent are doubtful.

[M-Tecs]

Jester, If you do sell it I am very interested but I will still need good pictures. Thanks

[Simonpie]

OK I'll chime in. Don't do anything drastic till you cruise Ebay for a while. If you don't want to reline or mess up what you have, just buy a medium quality barrel for $100, or barreled action for $150, swap out and go shooting. The original stock and action sound good, so why not. None of this will affect collector value 1 cent. It can all go back to stock. If you find a rifle length barrel cut down to carbine length (very common) it could be very cheap (and very uncollectable) on ebay.

[starmac]

For 450.00, I would have to, as in be forced to go with it, if it would make it a shooter. It would have to be that much fun.

When my dad was a kid, he would ride logs down the bosque river when it was flooding quite a few miles then hitch hike back. There was an old long abandoned homestead on the river that he would sometimes spend the night in. he said there was an old sharps, (no real way to tell exactly what it was) on top of one of the rafter beams. Back then they were not worth anything to speak of. I often wondered what ever happen to it, if it was saved or just collasped when the old house did.

[gmsharps]

If it was me I would replace the barrel. They are fun to shoot and it would be a great investment as well.

gmsharps

[Roundball]

Years ago I was able to clean the junk out of a 1889 TD with Kroil and some patience. The barrel did look like the sewer pipe but cleaned up to do well with the Lee 405 HB bullet. It is worth the effort.

[JesterGrin_1]

Has anyone dealt with Keith at Trapdoors Galore?

He seems like a good fellow from the talk we had on the phone.

[JesterGrin_1]

Well from the little search I did things do not look good for Trapdoors Galore. So I am still looking.

[JesterGrin_1]

If it was me I would replace the barrel. They are fun to shoot and it would be a great investment as well.

gmsharps


Replace the barrel with what and by whom?

[smkummer]

I know someone who has a 1879 rifle that was cut down. I want the rear sight and I believe the barrel looked good. I can inquire more of this weapon if your interested. Tell me the length of your barrel from the action to the muzzle and we will see if it is long enough.

[dagunnut]

This is a story as told to me by my father.

Our old next door neighbor Bob was an gun enthusiast. He was at a gun show and noticed an old Remington Rolling Block in what he believed to be 45-70. He loved his 45-70's! He bought it for the parts as the condition was absolutely horrid rusted beyond belief but the wood was in good condition. He got it for a steal. When he got it home he put it in a closet and forgot about it for several years. He eventually found it again and decided to see if he could clean it up a bit to check the bore. A brush thru the bore showed that it was not rust but dried out cosmaline. With a lot of elbow grease and cleaning products he found that the barrel and action were in excellent condition. He also found that Theodore Roosevelts name was ingraved on the action and barrel. Bob placed a call to Remington to check the serial number and find out the background on this rifle. He was told that he would be receiving a call back within the next few days. The next morning he received a call from some higher-up at Remington and was offered several thousand dollars and a new firearm of his choosing for the rifle. This was pending someone from Remington flying out and verifying the rifles condition and authenticity. The story goes that the rifle was one that Theodore Roosevelt had taken on one of his expeditions. The rifle was crated up afterwards and shipped back to the states. The crate containing this rifle and a few others was lost in transit eventually making it into our neighbors hands. Bob refused Remingtons offer and the rifle remained in his ownership until his passing in May of 2000. I never found out what his family ever did with that rifle after his passing.

Mario
dagunnut

[bob208]

Robert Hoyt in Fairfield pa. can reline the barrel. he does not charge much.
he also does it a different way. he puts a under size liner in then reams and rifles the liner after it is in the barrel.

[texasmac]

Here's more details on relining a TD. The article also references Bobby (Robert Hoyt).

http://www.texas-mac.com/Relining_a_Springfield_Trapdoor_Rifle_Barrel.html

Wayne

[Japlmg]

You could have the barrel relined.
Gregg

[StrawHat]

I have always thought a trapdoor in 22 Hornet would be a fun rifle to shoot.

[Multigunner]

The carbine has value even if it is never put in shape to fire live cartridges. I would expect that motion picture prop departments are constantly looking for these.

A friend cleaned up two trap door rifles for an old gentleman who had bought them from a barrel full at a hardware store during the depression for $1.25 each. The old guy gave my friend one of the rifles.
Not knowing anything about the caliber my friend only fired .410 shot shells in his trapdoor, and used it for squirrels.