Zero on a 38-55 loading

[cwheel]

Continuing to work up loads for my old 38-55. In the last session shooting 265gr. gas checked Lyman #375296 it looks like the fixed 100 yard zero is going to come in with 27-28gr. range 83005of 3031. Once I get a zero, I'll run through the chronograph. This rifle ( win 94 ) has factory tangent sights and to calibrate the slider on the tangent sight I need to zero the rifle @100. This type of sight has no elevation slider on the bottom of the scale. Question is anyone else shooting 3031 in these with the lyman 375296 and what have been your results. Got this powder as one of the few that was available. I know I can use other powders. but interested in 3031 loads. Groups so far are in the 2 1/2" range, so for this old rifle, and these old eyes, I can't complain. By the charts, it looks like these loads should be in the 1500-1600 fps range, but until I get a zero, won't put them through. The other powder I've thought of using is 2400, I have plenty of it. 2400 doesn't fill the case nearly as much as the 3031, thinking the 3031 should burn more consistently because of less air space. Appreciate hearing from any others using 3031 in 38-55 here, thanks,
Chris

[missionary5155]

Greetings cwheel
First you will need to decide if you want the best accuracy or your rifle to shoot to those sights.
Both desires can be close.. But I have not yet found a Winchester to cough up both issues at the absolute best.
On the sight issue.. I would find out what those sights were regulated for. Winchester loaded a 255 grain and you are slightly overe that weight. Winchester loaded that boolit at slower velocities that you are looking at so again your sight is not regulated for your velocity and exterior ballistics.
I rescently aquired a 1892 44 WCF with the 3 leaf sight. I knew what the regulated load was but I have through experience learned in the 5 44WCF 1892's I have owned that the Saeco #443 (220 grain) is a far better hunting bullet than the 200 grainer Winchester offered. So I knew up front the 3 leaf was not going to be dead on.
I have a Winchester 35-55 made in 1903. I found my sights to be on when loading about 46 grains of 3F with the 255 PB boolit. Velocity was rather less than I hoped. Smokeless loads easily got that boolit to 1350 which was a nice accurate load. But the origonal sights were not regulated to that load. All this took place in ILLinois some years back and I do not have the specifics with me.
Those are the basic issues we face working with old rifles. The sights were set for a certain boolit at a certain velocity. We can go there and be happy with reasonable accuracy using the regulated sights. Or forget the regulated sights and go where we find the ballistics we desire.
Mike in Peru

[cwheel]

Thanks Mike,
So far I'm not far away from the 100 yard zero. Working .2 gr. increments between 27-28gr. for the zero. 28.5 puts me 3" high @100. This rifle is supposed to have the sight regulated for a 255gr. factory soft point zero at 100 yards with the sight folded flat against the barrel. Same round is supposed to zero @150yards with the sight folded up, slider on the bottom. ( as in the picture ) Other graduations on the sight go from 2-20. I am having to guess here, 200-2000yards as the slider is moved up. Think no one in their right mind would attempt shooting a 38-55 @2000 yards, but I think that is the scale. This rifle was made in 1917, so not sure if the sight is regulated for black powder or smokeless, that was the period of transition from one to the other. Setting this one up for the grandson's first deer hunt. Thinking he would be excited to take off on the first hunt packing his great grandfathers rifle. Once the bugs are worked out of the load, will load up 500 rounds for the rifle. Should be a nice sized can of ammo to hand him with the rifle. If I can get the 100yard zero with some reasonable accuracy thinking a boolit weighing 10gr. more should still track out to 200 yards reasonably well on the slider sight, don't think shots hunting with this rifle should be taken past that point. Hoping that when I get to the zero, groups tighten up some. The 2 1/2" groups so far are with my old eyes, also hoping some younger eyes could make a difference being able to see the sights better. I sorted through the cast/sized/lubed/gas checked boolits and rejected any that didn't weigh in within 1gr. of the 265gr weight finished, rejected 20% or so back to the melt pot. Just looking at the charts, it looks like I should be running 1500-1600fps. Don't think any more speed is necessary, could do with a little less. Will run the finished round through the chronograph, but by then it won't matter much. Regulating a round to match a existing sight isn't much fun, not like just turning a knob on a scope. If I can't get better groups out of this 3031 after getting to a zero, guess it's going to be time to try a different powder. Powder is still hard to come by here in Nevada, but I do have some 2400 I could try. Will have to go through the same drill with it until I get the fixed sight zero and see what size groups I can get. Question still stands though, anyone loading 38-55 with 3031 powder getting better results or do I have unrealistic goals. After hunting with a 300 win mag scope sighted for the last 25 years or so could be I'm expecting more out of this old gal than it is capable of.
Chris

[oscarflytyer]

Recommend going over to the Marlin Owners forum. There is a bunch of 38-55 loonies over there. Look up Wind and start there. Tell him I sent you. He has video shooting a 1000 yd dinger with 38-55. They will most likely rib you a bot for shooting that funny looking rifle (not a Marlin) but they will get paste that in a hurry! Tons of great 38-55 info/advice there.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Your present 2.5 inch groups are not all that bad. What diameter are you sizing ? I ask due to the fact winchester throats can be rather fat. A too loose fit in the throat is another variable that adds to larger groups. Next is the muzzle. Is there any "Looseness" at the muzzle due to wear from cleaning over the near 100 years that rifle has been cleaned ? The 44 WCF I mentioned the last .25 inches at the muzzle taper open a bit so the boolit exit is effected some. These two issues are the biggest challange with old Winchester that I have worked with. Groups do suffer. Just another reason lots of people shun lead boolits. With lead we have to pay attention to all details.

3 inches high at 100 should put you close to a 150 yard zero. Then still using that same sight and same hold you will be about 10 inches low at 200. So very possibly that "second leaf" when the "ladder" is stanstanding will take care of that 200 yard shot.
I would be setting a target at 150 yards and firing 5 rounds usisng your present load and 100 yard sight. Hitting a deer at 200 yards with steel sights is not an easy task out in the hunting fields. I would try it off cross sticks with a rifle I have used alot. But leaning on a fence post or sitting or kneeling... I would have to hope I could crawl up 50 yards.

3031 I ran out some years ago. Did not find an 8 pound jug like I wanted too so bought 4198 instead. 3031 is only as accurate as your rifle can be. My slightly older 38-55 shoots 1680 better but 3F is the best load for it in accuracy. 4198 in my Winchesters rifles (38-55 and 375 Win) is as accurate generally. But again that best load varies from one rifle to another. When I want to know the absolute best possible accuracy of a lever rifle I start with 3F and a 40-1 boolit. I fire 10 rounds and that becomes my base line to beat with smokeless. Usually it is possible to equal but tough to surpass. The big advantage of course is the 50% velocity increase.
Mike in Peru

[cwheel]

I did get through all of those throat issues. Bore slugs .379, I cast and size to .381. At first with smaller boolits, got key holed targets. After the size increase all now fly as they should. Had to throat ream the brass with a .377 reamer in my lathe to get the bigger boolit into the case and also made a new expander plug to .379 for the same reason. All of these sizes stack up to a round that will just barely chamber. This rifle spent more time in a rifle scabbard than being fired in the late part of Alaskan gold rush, muzzle erosion from cleaning is nil. Still have the horse scabbard as well that it was packed in. I'm doing my testing off a rifle rest and a bench, don't think my hold can get much better. Bore on the rifle is fairly good with some dark spots, no pits. Loaded up a bunch last night. This group runs from 27-28gr. in .2gr. increments. I should hit the zero elevation mark with that and get to see the final group size with that powder charge. Might go through the same drill again with a different powder if the groups are to big at that point. Something else I can do would be to lighten the boolit down to 255gr. by running them through the lathe, doing a setup where they all turn out the same 255gr. by hollow-pointing them. The 255 weight would match the boolit weight that the factory set up the sights for. At this point I don't think 10gr. of boolit weight is going to make that much of a difference on the scale at shots fired at under 200 yards. Will get out again and try next week, see what happens. My old 1940 30-30 was much easier to work up loads for than this one.
Chris

[ColColt]

I have the Winchester Legendary Frontiersman and have been using the Lee 375-250 RNFP bullet with good success using H4198 and 24 gr. I was lucky to have found some IMR 3031 recently at a gun show but haven't had the chance to try it yet. It and the 4198 are two of the best powders for this caliber. My groove diameter mics at .379" and that's the bullet size I use as .380" size dies are all but unavailable commercially and you have to have one custom made to that size...unless I overlooked something. Lyman doesn't make them for sure.

[cwheel]

Yes, I did make my sizing die for .381 out of some tool steel and hardened it. Was going to grind out the .377 I had but grinding out .004 with a tool post grinder and keeping the bore straight would have been more work than making a new one from scratch. In the future, thinking about making a sizing die for my reloading die set for the 38-55 because sizing this small is going to over work the brass at some point. This might end up being easier to make from scratch than opening up the RCBS one. ColColt, we did have several back and forth posts when you got your rifle, I was just starting this project at that point myself. On the home stretch now, get the load worked out, produce the rounds, will move it back to the safe to wait on the grandson and start another project. Next one looks like it might be a 1 1/2" or bigger black powder cannon and carriage. There is lots of places here in Nevada to shoot a thing like that at long range and not bother anyone.
Chris

[ColColt]

I had to send my size die back to RCBS as it was sizing too small for this chamber. I started a thread no long back about the problem of case bulging and sent them an email or two that ended up them requesting sending it back. It was the Cowboy dies. When it returned most of the problem had gone. Part of the problem was the variation in brass thickness with some being .002-.003 from one side to the other.They opened up the size die and it did help.

I failed to mention they not only sent my die back but sent a new one that was opened larger along with some sample cases I had sent and they also sent others they used showing the variation in thickness

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Well you have all the ducks in a row with that chamber and throat.
The 10 grains will not be that big of a difference... My 375449 drops a might heavier than yours with 50-50. But then 50-50 is not the same as Lyman #2 mix as they use for standard.
You are blessed to have that rifle. Minimal muzzle wear is fantastic. I have had some so bad the only solution was to counter bore or wack off an inch. One SRC 1892 neaded 1.5 inches.
Once you have your "best load" try have rounds hallow pointed. I make a simple holder for the bullet that has been drill for what ver size drill bit I decide to use for the HP. With my 38-55 I found a HP to shoot 1/4 inch better at 100 yards. Not much but everything helps.
Mike in Peru

[cwheel]

ColColt, think my size die is the same. My die set is older than I am, I think it's sizing for the newer bore they started after 1920. Some of my grandfathers reloads from before WW2 came with the rifle as well. Pulled one down, looked OK, so I fired the rest, no problems or misfires. Wish I'd measured what size the boolit was though. Somehow what ever he reloaded worked fine. Probably up there getting a good laugh watching and how I'm doing with this. His older cases scrapped, they were marked WRA co. Saved 4 to make into M/T rounds without primers to teach loading and cycling to the grandson. His reloads were a cast boolit, 4 boxes of them with 4 rounds of factory 255 sp. jacketed factory rounds. Hollow pointing with a center drill is sounding like a better idea as time goes on. I have a lathe that can be set up with collets and a stop to drill just a little and weigh the boolit. When the weight gets to 255, set a stop and run the rest. Boolits are already sized and gas checked, keeping track of the weight should not be a problem. Might be fun to take the rounds out and fire at wet phone books after working out the load, see what they do, how they expand and if they hold together. The neck thickness problem with the Winchester brass was all but eliminated as I chucked every case in the lathe and ran a .377 reamer in to make room for the larger boolit. This process removed .003 from the ID of the neck. When running the .379 sizer plug, it thinned out the neck OD enough to fit into the tight chamber. Still is a little out of round, not much more than .001, close enough. Next brass buy will be Starline and the problem should go away with their thinner necks.
Chris

[ColColt]

Sounds to me you're got it all together. I've never owned a lathe and wish I had done so years ago as there appears to be a lot of things you can do with one. I think instead of firing those reloads I would have kept them...at least one or two. Those must have been some archaic cases to be marked WRA. I don't think I've ever seen any so marked. Obviously it was Winchester Repeating Arms back in the day.

Oddly enough the problem I was having with my cases were Winchester cases...not Starline. I have those new but haven't tried them yet. I'll anneal them before putting them to use. You have a real jewel of a rifle and I'd treat it with kid gloves and admire it daily.

[TXGunNut]

Wow. Awesome project, awesome rifle. I agree that imagining your grandfather somehow looking over your shoulder adds another dimension to this project. I hope your grandson appreciates your efforts and the history that comes with this rifle.
Thanks for sharing!

[cwheel]

Winchester was the cases I had trouble with as well, even worse than yours with a little smaller bore. Reaming the Winchester cases with a .377 reamer seamed to cure it all. My next load of cases will be Starline and the cases that are 2.085 long, they sell longer for the single shot Ballard group. My job with this one is just get to be the caretaker until passed along to the next caretaker for another generation. Any luck I can pass off some good ammo with it, and teach the grandson how to make his own before I pass. The other thing I have to do with this one is get the Winchester letter. It says on the receipt that it was special order, $17.75 in 1917 from Hudson Bay co in Canada. Not much else other than the SN. Be fun if it letters to Hudson Bay, or my grandfather by name, worth the price to find out. His old brass was marked WRA CO and I have no idea what time frame it was from.
Chris

[9.3X62AL]

Looking on and listening closely--I'll be plowing very similar ground shortly with a Win 94 I have under submission for conversion to 37-55 (that is a Buckshot-ism, as the finished groove for the 'smith will be .376").

[cwheel]

Don't think you are going to have any trouble with a 38-55 that has the smaller bore. The stock dies, Winchester brass is going to work fine for you. It's just to come down to casting some good boolits and working up some good loads. Trouble seams to come in, for the most part, with the older rifles made before 1920 with larger bores and smaller throats.
Chris

[cwheel]

As a side note, just looked up the head stamp on that old brass. WRA CO head stamp was used by Winchester from 1870-1940, so those old cases date to before 1940.
Chris

[missionary5155]

Greetings Cwheel
While you have those old cases near check the wall thickness of some.
It would have been interesting to have checked the fps of those old loaded rounds.
fat throat is the same journey I had to overcome with my 38-55. Really needed .382 boolits but they were not going to chamber. Easiest solution was 3F and a .380 40-1 255 grainer.
Interesting the rassles we go through to keep the old bores warm. Sending a 30-30 barrel to JES and having it rifled and chambered 38 -55 spoils a cast shooter real fast.
Mike in Peru
Mike in Peru

[cwheel]

Hi Mike,
Will take one of the 4 I have left and knock it down and measure. Now that you ask, it will be interesting to know what Winchester was doing with these back in the day. Boolits in the pic above are mine, wish I'd not shot all of my grandfathers reloads, would be great to knock one down and see what powder if possible, and what dia. boolit was used. Don't want to go with black powder in this one, trying to preserve it in the best condition possible. When out in a hunting camp, harder to get clean and not harm the bore. Thinking the couple of dark spots in the bore now came from this. Working out a smokeless round that works well might make it easier to take on a hunt that lasts a couple of weeks and not have it become a problem. To windy to shoot here today, 15-25 gusts, will wait for a calmer day and try the next lot. I'll post the thickness results here later tonight. Reading Larry Gibson's post on the Leverolution powder, if the 3031 doesn't work out, might be the next one to try if I can find it locally. Don't seam to find any reloading data for 38-55 with that powder though.
Chris

[ColColt]

Hornady's 7th Edition manual has loads for that powder. with a 220 gr jacketed bullet it runs from 29.9 to a max of 34.7 gr. Lymans Cast Bullet Handbook also shows a listing for 3031 with cast bullets on pages 192-193. For a 250 gr bullet it runs 27-30 gr max.

[cwheel]

Mike, the answer is .005 wall thickness on this old Winchester brass. I'm sure these have been reloaded several times before I was born, but the wall thickness shouldn't have changed. Thanks CoColt, if I strike out with these 3031 loads will give the Leverolution powder a try if I can find a pound. Still have the shortages going on here in western Nevada, to close to California, things are worse there I hear, they shop here when they can. Looking at what Larry Gibson did, that powder seams to go peak pressure further down the bore and seams to like a heavier boolit, might be fun to try. Going to stop at Cabela's tomorrow, will look for the powder, and the Hornady book. I have the Lyman 49th here and you are right about the listings.
Chris

[cwheel]

A little more info on the case thickness. Seams the max. OD of the loaded round at the mouth that will chamber freely is .396. With new Winchester cases that got the .377 reamer, the OD of the loaded round with a .381 boolit runs right at .395, just fits. Loading the old WRA CO. brass with the same .381 boolit the loaded round measures .3915 or so. So wall thickness on the older brass was much thinner. My new reamed Winchester brass has a .007 wall. The old WRA CO. has .005. Makes for quite a difference with a tight rifle throat. I suspect from the good reports on Starline brass, they must have a wall .007 or thinner.
Chris

[missionary5155]

Good morning
That sure explains alot about the old ammo. I dought the average shooter 80 years ago reloaded as much as some of us tend to so a thin wall brass is no issue. Winchester knew they needed clearance and a boolit to fit the throat so went with it. Plus they had clearance for lint, dust and whatever gets caught up in the cycling routine.
Thanks for taking the time to write up all this.
Mike in Peru

[skeettx]

Hello all
In my Ruger #1 and my Marlin Cowboy I use a .382 bullet sized to .380 with gas check
For the Ruger cases are only primed and not sized and bullet is sitting on top of 30 grains of 3031.
For the Marlin light neck size and bullet sitting on top of 30 grains of 3031.
The heavier charge of 3031 might get the point of impact lower for you.
PLEASE check the books to see if this is OK in your gun!
http://www.chuckhawks.com/38-55win.htm
Mike

[marvelshooter]

Hello all
In my Ruger #1 and my Marlin Cowboy I use a .382 bullet sized to .380 with gas check

Mike

Could you share what mold gives you a .382 boolit?

[cwheel]

The mold is a Lyman 375296, and I suspect it could be older than I am, but still in great shape. It's a 265gr. gas check mold. The old Lyman 45 reloading handbook I have lists that boolit as a 265gr. designed for the 38-55. I already ran loads with this boolit and 30gr. of 3031. My notes say they printed more than a foot above zero. Would not be a issue with a rifle that has a buckhorn sight, just change the slider. This rifle has the factory tangent sight where the 100yard zero is fixed. After that the slider is flipped up and range set. ( look closely at the pic in the first post ) Need to get very close to the zero @100 to make the calibration on the slider come out close as well. Just checked again, I store the mold with the last round cast, and oil everything good for storage. Boolit in the mold measures .3835. I size to .381. Sizing any bigger with the tight throat in this rifle would not chamber with the brass I have. Don't know anything about Marlin barrel sizes, or have any idea what size might be needed to work with those. Looked at the Chuck Hawks page, good article. I notice he uses a 24" barrel, and I have a thin profile 20". Think the special order rifle with tangent sights and a 20" barrel puts this one in a different place as far as the final load goes. I'm sure it was set up to track with the factory ammo produced back in 1917 when it was made.
Chris

[cwheel]

Just returned from Sportsman's Warehouse, got a new set of hunting boots for the Idaho trip. Also got the new Hornady Reloading manual, 9th edition. Some 38-55 data there, but for 220 jacketed boolits, didn't help much, that data for a newer .375 barrel as well. Also hoped they would show some loads for their new Leverevolution powder, get a idea where to start, but no such luck. They didn't have the powder either, guess it doesn't matter. Looks like they have lots more testing to do on that powder. They don't seam to interested in the cast boolit thing, but I'm sure cast boolits are not part of their business plan.
Chris

[ColColt]

I have the Cowboy dies for the 38-55 and it includes an expander .375" and .379". The latter works out fine for the Winchester but the .375" will work out better for the C. Sharps I have coming in that caliber as I was told the bore diameter will be .368" and groove diameter .375-.376". I'll be using the .375" expander for the custom Hoch mould in .377" bullets I have cast for the C. Sharps. I don't intend on putting jacketed bullets through either of those rifles. In fact, I'm going to test the Winchester with 40-42 gr of BP, probably Swiss, with the Lee 250 gr RNFP I've been using with 4198 and see how she groups.

[skeettx]

On vacation, think it is an LBT in .382 about 275 grains with gas check.
They sell a standard .375 and 275 grain bullet.
Mike

LBT says
we still offer custom molds if made with our standard
patterns, which is, nose profiles, lube groove sizes, and we cut them to whatever size you need for
optimum performance in guns with over or under sized bores and chambers. This means we can make
molds for any metric caliber, and will fit even extremely worn throats in any gun, to produce optimum
performance out of barrels which most people consider worn out!

[cwheel]

CoColt, you might want to re check your larger expander in that set. If it's RCBS, it should be a .3775 at least that is what their rep said on the phone. That is what caused me to make the .379 myself, I knew the larger one in their set was going to still be to small for mine with a larger bore. Could be a custom plug ?? Not sure the modern threads would fit this older than dirt die set I'm working with anyway, sure something has changed over the years. That .3775 should work fine with your Legendary Frontiersman rifle as is though.
Chris

[9.3X62AL]

I have the Cowboy dies for the 38-55 and it includes an expander .375" and .379". The latter works out fine for the Winchester but the .375" will work out better for the C. Sharps I have coming in that caliber as I was told the bore diameter will be .368" and groove diameter .375-.376". I'll be using the .375" expander for the custom Hoch mould in .377" bullets I have cast for the C. Sharps. I don't intend on putting jacketed bullets through either of those rifles. In fact, I'm going to test the Winchester with 40-42 gr of BP, probably Swiss, with the Lee 250 gr RNFP I've been using with 4198 and see how she groups.

Many thanks for this info concerning the RCBS Cowboy Die Set in 38-55. The .375" expander should mesh all right with the projected .376" grooves to be cut in my Win 94's barrel. I'm assuming that its throat will not be excessively larger than its grooves, but will wait until confirmation of actual throat specs before selecting an H&I die diameter. I'm thinking .377" at this point, but we'll see what happens. The Usual Sources show the Cowboy Die Set to be outta stock, and Bwana Larry says 11-08-13 for arrival, with back-order OK. I am loath to B/O anything, but given the nature of the business these days maybe I should line up and wait in this fashion.

[ColColt]

CoColt, you might want to re check your larger expander in that set. If it's RCBS, it should be a .3775 at least that is what their rep said on the phone

You're absolutely right. It does mic at .3775". Apparently I had my groove diameter on my mind.

This place has the Legacy dies but BO on the Cowboys.

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=2379&dir=210|1201|1356

You may get lucky here...

http://www.opticsplanet.com/rcbs-cowboy-action-3-die-roll-crimp-set-38-55-winchester-36551.html

[cwheel]

All ready for the next test but the grandkids are due, gota get the toys ready. Lots of wind here for most of the week, not good days to do a proper test. Have some time this morning, was looking at stuff, thinking about where I am, where I've gone on this one. First off, Winchester brass might only be good to start off with in the newer rifles, might not be even then because of the thicker necks. I'd avoid new Winchester brass if at all possible. If someone was just starting to reload for 38-55, Starline brass would be the only way to go. Older original rifles ( made before the 1920 change ) this would be the only reasonable option. If RCBS made a .379 sizer plug, that would also go a long way to ending problems with the older rifles. Newer rifles are going to be fine with RCBS Cowboy die set and Starling brass. I am obligated to leave this rifle I have in exactly the same shape or better than I received it for family history purposes, sending it in for a new
( smaller bore ) barrel is out, no modifications for this gun. Brass I had was NOS Winchester bulk brass and some old brass that would have been questionable to reload. Thinking the key for all to work well is Starline brass that more closely matches the older case thickness. Thinking I'm going to have to pack this project away until I return from hunting in Idaho in November, I'll pick it up again and finish the load testing, and finish loading the ammo.
Chris

[ColColt]

If RCBS made a .379 sizer plug, that would also go a long way to ending problems with the older rifles.

Do you mean a expander plug? If so you can get that size from BACO.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/.330_.384_custom_expanders_pr-4166.aspx?CAT=4166

[cwheel]

Yes, expander plug. But most of you won't need it unless they are like me trying to revive a 94 that is pre 1920. Doesn't matter now for me because I made my own .379 expander plug. For me, I'm down to just working out a load that zero's with the existing sights, and keeping close to scale on the tangent sight. Having a accurate load in the process is of course what I'm going for as well. Won't know until I get to zero, how accurate that particular 3031 load is. Could have to go through the whole drill again with another powder. It's high so far with a group around 2 1/2" @100 yards. Shot off a rest and a bench. Guess if that group is still the same size after getting to a zero, it would be more than good enough to hunt with. Trying for better because @150 yards I'm sure that 2 1/2" will open up to over 4" or more. Leverolution powder might be worth trying if needed, Larry Gibson's good work on 30:30 and heavy cast shows this could work out well. Looks like his tests with 30:30 and heavy cast showed it had a distinct advantage in that situation. Full pressure develops much further down the bore. Trouble is, no data found on that powder and 38-55 at this point. After the hunting trip, will resume the work on this one. Would much rather the zero come between 15-1600 fps than 1100 fps to hunt with. The test batch waiting to be fired is 27-28gr. of 3031 in .2gr. increment.
Chris

[TXGunNut]

Not sure the modern threads would fit this older than dirt die set I'm working with anyway, sure something has changed over the years.-cwheel

My cowboy expander die is threaded the same as the Lyman M-Type. I use the same body (from a .32WS set) for 30-30 and 32WS, just bought an extra expander for a pretty reasonable price. Odd sizes still require a Lyman or a custom expander but these work well for me.

[cwheel]

The threads on this older set of 38-55 dies, the expander plug is 9/16 X 18tpi. Went over to measure the threads on my old set of 30:30 dies, and remembered that I made the die body, expander plug, and lock nuts for that set. Think it was a rainy day project that took up most of the day, not cost effective, just a way to spend the day. All done long ago when converting a 2 die set of 30:30 to a 3 die set for cast reloading. I set this expander die up to use 1/2 X 20tpi, no idea if there is a standard there that I missed, but it works fine. Guess what I'm saying here, is I've got nothing to compare with here, but the 38-55 expander threads are the 9/16 X 18tpi on these old dies, don't know if it's changed over the years,
Chris

[kb7tgr]

Just bought a 38-55 94 winchester LF



Put Tang sight on and loaded a few test loads. Set target at 30 yards. 5 rounds and it is zero. Shot 5 more rounds and can cover them with a quarter. Not bad for shooting off the tailgate of the pick up with a old shirt crumpled up to protect the rifle. Loaded two more rounds with a little more powder (still three grains under max.) they went about 1.5 inches high and split each other.

[9.3X62AL]

I don't foresee many--if any--jacketed bullets getting run through this rifle after it returns. The Lee 250 grain plain-base mould already on hand will get warmed up soon and used to produce some 92/6/2 alloy castings, and maybe some of pure lead just for fun. Such a boolit run at 1300 FPS would likely curl up and rivet over on a critter of any size. Going to pour some pure lead into several rifle and handgun moulds, just to see how such castings behave when fired at moderate velocities using smokeless powder and good lubes. I'll bet a butter-soft #358429 from a 38 Special at 800 FPS would turn a coyote inside-out within 50 paces.

[ColColt]

Pure lead is a bear to cast with...been there, tried it. Plus, the diameter of the dropped bullet will be a tad smaller than when using ww's or a 1:20 alloy. A 1:30 would be as soft as I'd personally go with smokeless or BP. 1:20 with the Lee bullet does superb in my Winchester.

[9.3X62AL]

Good to know, Col Colt. I've done some pouring with unalloyed lead for muzzle-loaders, and if I got the melt hot enough (800*+) it tended to do the right things for roundballs and Maxi balls. Hollow-based Minies were a bee-otch, but I managed about 60% keepers if I kept things hot and worked fast. If it turns left, I'll score some tin from Rotometals and follow your advice.

[ColColt]

Hollow-based Minies were a bee-otch

That bullet was my first introduction to black powder and pure lead and it's just as you said!! Trying to get the cherry hot enough to not create voids and wrinkles took a lot of patience...and time. I haven't cast pure lead since. When I wanted to shoot my old Navy Arms Zouave I went to Dixie Gun Works and bought the bullets. Still have that mould as a reminder.

[TXGunNut]

I love shooting RB's in my old percussion revolver and I'll tell you my secret: a few wrinkles don't make any difference, at least @ 25 & closer. That's as far as I can shoot that little jewel anyway.

[Steelbanger]

I use 3031 in two different Marlins using a variety of cast bullets. From the lightweight Ranch Dog 235 gr. to a Rapine that weighs 265 gr. and using charges from 28 gr. to 33 gr. I've found heavier charges of 3031 listed in some manuals and have tried some, but mostly I now use 30 to 32 gr. I've seen other 38-55 shooters using this powder too and all seem to like the accuracy very much. Then again the 38-55 seems to perform well with a variety of powders so finding that perfect load really isn't difficult.

[skeettx]

Back home now :)
The mould is an LBT and is marked 382 275 LFN
and is cut for a gas check
Mike

[DEVERS454]

I had a custom mold made for me by MountianMolds and it shoots GREAT!

My problem is my chamber is cut for "original" case length, which is 2.125" and all the factory Winchester stuff I was finding was 2.05".. some were as short as 2.025"!!! Then Starline came out with their "basic" 38-55 case and now all my problems are solved.

After having a chamber case made and measuring things, I came up with a boolit that was nose and shoulder long and still chambered in the action. 2.565" was the OAL I had to stay with in order for the lifter to get it past into the chamber.

Drops right at 265gr and I use 20:1 or 25:1 with NO antimony. I have several hundred of these case up with Lyman black powder lube and they work like a charm out to 200yds.

Sounds like your already on the right track, though, with what you have.