Problem feeding Lyman 356402 9mm 120 gr TC Bullets

[Tarkid]

I've had this mould for many years and have had great success using it as a light .357 revolver load. Recently I started loading for a new M&P 9c 9mm and it's definitely a different ball game. Some stats, and then the problems:
Mould: Lyman "9mm CON 120 gr TC", number 356402 -- http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/bullet-casting/mould-details.php?entryID=4
Lead is range lead with a wee bit of wheel weights (ww hard to get in Kalifornia)
Diameter as-cast: 0.358 (really!)
Sizing die: RCBS 0.355
Barrel as-slugged: 0.3525 - 0.3530 (seems kinda tight)
All cases trimmed to 0.890 and lightly chamfered

The first problem is they don't seem to feed reliably. I bought a Lyman Pistol Max Cartridge Gauge and a separate Lee crimping die. I had no idea crimping was as important as it is with semi-auto rounds and thought I had this issue licked with the crimping die, but that didn't solve it totally. I'm testing each finished cartridge in the Gauge to ensure they don't exceed the SAAMI maximum dimensions it checks, but still not 100% feed reliability. I've tried a pretty wide range of overall length and it gets better and worse, but still not 100%. I polished the feed ramp, it shines like a mirror. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

The second problem I think I know the answer to but would appreciate your opinions. When I size these boolits, the front edge of the forward band, which started out nice and square with the base all the way around, becomes sort of lop-sided. If you set the boolit on the bench and slowly spin it like a top the leading edge of that forward band is up and down. I think sizing it down .003" is too much and is causing this. Is this a problem for anybody else?

After a lot of experimenting I was about to give up on this mould and order one of the 1R Ball patterns, but I keep seeing threads where folks are having success with this bullet, so I'm hoping it's my inexperience with semi-auto cast boolits. I've been casting for 40 years but until recently it's all been rifle and revolver. They are definitely way less picky than these semi-autos! I'm having another set of problems with 45acp in an XD 5", but that's another thread. Any pointers on the 9mm would be appreciated. I'm longing for a day at the range without every magazine having one or more feed issues.

Tarkid

[Ed_Shot]

Read the Sticky: Setting up Boolits in a New 9MM

Are you rounds hanging up at the feed ramp or is you action failing to go into battery after the round gets in the chamber?

What OAL are you using?

Are you getting any leading?

[dragonrider]

What tool are you using to size? Lyman, RCBS, Star, other?

[North_of_60]

I have no experience with 9mm but with 45acp my XD would not feed SWC reliably. Round nose feed fine.

I take the barrel off my autos and see how the bullets fit in the chamber when I set up my seating and crimping die. I seat and crimp in two steps. I seat with a RCBS and use a Lee Factory crimp taper die for the crimp.

[Larry Gibson]

The first problem is they don't seem to feed reliably

Describe the malfunction please......a picture or two wouldn't hurt either.

Larry Gibson

[Tarkid]

NO60, I gave up on the Lee SWC for my XD 45. It just has a distaste for that boolit. Put my name on the list for the group buy of the Mihec 452374.

[Tarkid]

Jeeze, I'm not so good with this forum stuff. Had a nice long reply typed out and jumped out to check something and my carefully crafted prose disappeared. Argh.

Ok, venting done. I want to thank you all for taking the time to respond. Very much appreciated. I will answer your questions below, but I think I finally put a round together that feeds reliably. I tried another OAL and crimp and had zero feed failures in three magazines, 30 rounds. I loaded up another 50 this morning and hope to try them today.

Answers
- I use a Lyman 450 lubrisizer with Javelina Alox lubricant (kinda dates me, I know). I'm getting zero leading.
- RCBS Rock Chucker press
- RCBS 3-die set with carbide resizing die. It has a combined seater-crimper, which is tricky to adjust since changing the seating depth changes the crimp, and vice versa. I just bought a Lee factory crimp die but haven't used it yet.
- The successful OAL was 1.138", crimp 0.378". FWIW, 3.5 grains of W231.
- The feed problem: the boolit slides up the feed ramp fine, but then was getting stuck in the chamber. It failed to make the horizontal turn into the forcing cone. It was definitely affected by OAL and that is the parameter I've experimented with the most. I had NO idea how important the crimp was with semi-autos, though, and until I read about that in other threads I was getting nowhere fast. Once I started playing with the crimp in conjunction with the OAL my feed problem started getting better but after two months of frustration I penned my original post. As luck would have it yesterday I hit on a combination that works. I've still got a TON to learn about reloading cast boolits in semi-autos. I've been casting and reloading for rifle and revolver for so many years it never occurred to me that doing the same for semi-autos would be any different. It's definitely been humbling...

Tarkid - ever a student of casting and reloading

[rintinglen]

Although I am a fan of the LEE FCD for many purposes, the 9mm is not one of them. It is very easy to squeeze your well cast, perfectly sized and lubed boolits into under-sized blobs o' lead that smear lead down the bore with one of these. I use them for Jacketed rounds, for rifle rounds and straight wall cases, but not tapered cases.

[Tarkid]

I'm just back from the range and ran 50 rounds through the M&P 9c, zero misfeeds. It was, after all, the combination of OAL and proper crimp. My next steps are to leave the crimp alone and vary the OAL plus and minus, see what range will work, then set it in the middle of that range and start varying the crimp. That will tell me how sensitive this weapon is to both. I can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel, which means I'll be able to load a few hundred rounds without worrying about having to disassemble them due to problems. Thanks again for all your advice.

rintinglen, I read a similar opinion of the Lee FCD in another thread, not sure if it was your or not, but the points made were well taken. I'll watch it's affects closely.

[bhn22]

Lyman recommends 1.111 OAL for this bullet in 9mm in their manuals.

[MtGun44]

As stated in the sticky - Set OAL and TC to match YOUR GUN. These are critical setup
dimensions that should be done with a dummy round before you build any ammo.

Bill

[Iron Mike Golf]

Tarkid, I recommend using your barrel (removed from your piece) as a go-no go gauge when adjusting crimp. Around here, you'll see it referred to as the "plunk test". You take a completed round and drop it into the chamber. It should drop in fully under its own weight. You might also grab the base of the round and give it a twist to make sure the boolit is not engaging the rifling. Turn the barrel upside down and the round should drop free by its own weight, too.

I tend to go for as long an OAL as will pass the plunk test and fit in the magazine. A longer OAL can give the round a shallower approach angle into the chamber, which can be helpful.

If you have a factory RN, there's another thing you can take a look at. Measure the meplat of your SWC or TC. Then find where the RN is the same width and mark it on the RN. Measure the distance from that mark to the case mouth. Set your TC seating depth to put the mepltat the same distance from the case mouth. That could be a good starting point for adjusting OAL.