soda pop can gas checks can be pulled off the bullets.

[RogerWatsonfromIdaho]

gas checks made from 1, 2, 3, and 4 thicknesses of soda pop cans can be pulled off the bullet after sizing.
Using the shiny or painted side of the pop can made no difference in my tests.
See photo.
What am I doing wrong?
The gas checks made from 68104 amerimax aluminium flashing cannot be removed with my fingers.

I am using:
copy of a Lyman #311466 mold purchased in a Cast Boolits group buy.
Soda pop can which is 0.004" thick.
68104 amerimax aluminium flashing is 0.014" thick.
Pat Marlin's .30 caliber Checkmaker.
Lyman 450 luber/sizer.
Lyman 309 sizing die.

[BruceB]

For MANY years, it was a routine thing for the Lyman/Ideal slip-on checks to leave the bullet outside the muzzle. There were even some efforts made to ENSURE that the checks fell away in a consistent manner, to increase the potential accuracy of the load.

I'd say that, if it bothers you, just add a drop of Loc-Tite to each check, well-distributed around its perimeter.

On firing, the gas pressure will most definitely keep the gascheck in its proper place on the bullet, doing its job.

My greatest concern would be making sure the check stayed on the bullet inside the case, if it's seated below the case neck. The Loc-Tite would also help with this.

[WILCO]

What am I doing wrong?


It's nothing you're doing and everything to do with the nature of the material used in the gas check. I've had success in making checks from brass sheeting that was 0.005", but I'm not willing to send that kind of money down range into the burm.

[graphic914]

what are you using to make you gas checks?

[MUSTANG]

gas checks made from 1, 2, 3, and 4 thicknesses of soda pop cans can be pulled off the bullet after sizing.
Using the shiny or painted side of the pop can made no difference in my tests.
See photo.
What am I doing wrong?

The gas checks made from 68104 amerimax aluminium flashing cannot be removed with my fingers.

I am using:
copy of a Lyman #311466 mold purchased in a Cast Boolits group buy.
Soda pop can which is 0.004" thick.
68104 amerimax aluminium flashing is 0.014" thick.
Pat Marlin's .30 caliber Checkmaker.
Lyman 450 luber/sizer.
Lyman 309 sizing die.


Your coke can aluminum check is not being swaged onto the base because it is too thin for the Boolit Shank. The shank on that boolit is going to be about 0.283". When you add .004 - plus - .004 for each side of the Soda Can check; you get a diameter of ~ 0.291. This means the .308 to .311 sizer you use, will never press the check down enough to grip.

Your 68104 AmeriMax checks are thicker. When you add the size of the shank, plus .014 - plus - .014 for each side of the Amerimax check; you get a diameter of ~ 0.311. This means the .308 to .311 boolit sizer you use, will press the check down enough to grip, even at the .311 sizing diameter.

When you "Sandwhich" multiple coke can checks; they are not bonding to each other, plus the springback of the material keeps it from holding onto the additional layers of coke can aluminum material. This is why the advice to use a superglue/loctite/et.al. to bond the sandwhich and the sandwhiched checks to the shank.


Mustang

82984

[Dale in Louisiana]

Guys-

I realize the allure of wanting to make something out of almost nothing. Coke can gas checks fit in that category. However, it's hard to beat Yonky's coils. The aluminum is dead soft, so it's easy to punch and doesn't spring back when formed, and it comes in different thicknesses.

You can make the other stuff work, and it's a nice feeling to know that avenue is open for you, but seriously, is it the fight you want to spend effort on?

dale in Louisiana

[RogerWatsonfromIdaho]

graphic914
I am using Pat Marlin's .30 caliber Checkmaker.

[RogerWatsonfromIdaho]

Dale in Louisiana
I do want to try Yonky's coils. They seem to be slightly more expensive, but not having to cut the roof flashing might make it worth it.

[RogerWatsonfromIdaho]

Mustang
Thank you for the explanation. Bonding the layers of soda pop cans together is too much effort for me. I have calculated the aluminum roof flashing to cost 0.2 cent per gas check. That cost is low enough.

[yonky]

it depends what you mean by expensive,you don't have to buy a paper cutter to use my coils,the edges are smooth,the width/gauge/metal spec is spot on.i will even send you samples to try free of charge.check out the testimonial page on the coilandfoil.com website if you wish.
it seems to me that people will mainly only leave feedback when they receive bad service or a bad product,but it would be nice to hear all customers comments both good and bad so you can see what needs fixing... just a thought..

[RogerWatsonfromIdaho]

Yonky
When I said more expensive, I was only figuring the cost of the aluminium for the gas checks.

I bought Aluminum Flashing from Ace Hardware.
Amerimax Home products. Roll Valley Flashing.
Aluminum
Standard 0.014" thick It measures at 0.014" thick.
Part#
68104 4"x50' $19.07 Special order.


68104 4"x50' $19.07 Special order.
cut strips 1/2" wide.
Get 8 or 9 of the .30 caliber gas checks per 4" strip.
50' = 50' X 12 inches per foot = 600 inches = 1200 1/2 inch strips.
1200 1/2" strips X 8 per strip = 9600 gas checks for $19.07

$19.07/9600 = 0.2 cents each.
I now cut the strips at 15/32", but 0.2 cents each is close enough.
---
Aluminium coil the correct width and thickness from Yonky at www.coilandfoil.com
Prices are as follows:

1/2" wide x .014" thick x 50‘ long aluminium $5 per coil, maximum of 3 coils per small flat rate box, shipping is $6.00
3 coils X $5 per coil = $15 plus shipping is $6.00 = $21
50' = 50' x 12" = 600 inches x 3 coils = 1800 inches for
$21
I was getting 8 gas checks per 4" strip from aluminium flashing, thus 2 gas checks per 1" of coil.
1800 inches X 2 = 3600 gas checks for $21
$21.00 / 3600 = 0.58 cents each.
slightly more expensive.
I do not have to cut the coils into strips.
Hornady gas checks are about 3 cents each.

I have learned a lot just in the short time I have owned and used the .30 caliber Checkmaker from Pat Marlin.

Soda pop cans have not worked for me.

There is the price of the paper cutter and the work to cut the aluminium flashing into strips. Sometimes I do not cut the strips to the correct width and either I have to trim the strips to get them to fit or the strips are too narrow and I get partial disks punched.

I plan to try the aluminium coils from Yonky. After using them I could give my opinion of the three aluminium materials: soda pop cans, roof flashing and coils.
I would also like to try the copper coils.

[.30/30 Guy]

Dale in Louisiana could not have said it any better. Get your check material from Yonky.

I have found that I cannot or should I say will not make any more checks out of cheap materials. As the old computer saying goes - "garbage in garbage out"

[VHoward]

Yonky
When I said more expensive, I was only figuring the cost of the aluminium for the gas checks.

I bought Aluminum Flashing from Ace Hardware.
Amerimax Home products. Roll Valley Flashing.
Aluminum
Standard 0.014" thick It measures at 0.014" thick.
Part#
68104 4"x50' $19.07 Special order.


68104 4"x50' $19.07 Special order.
cut strips 1/2" wide.
Get 8 or 9 of the .30 caliber gas checks per 4" strip.
50' = 50' X 12 inches per foot = 600 inches = 1200 1/2 inch strips.
1200 1/2" strips X 8 per strip = 9600 gas checks for $19.07

$19.07/9600 = 0.2 cents each.
I now cut the strips at 15/32", but 0.2 cents each is close enough.
---
Aluminium coil the correct width and thickness from Yonky at www.coilandfoil.com
Prices are as follows:

1/2" wide x .014" thick x 50‘ long aluminium $5 per coil, maximum of 3 coils per small flat rate box, shipping is $6.00
3 coils X $5 per coil = $15 plus shipping is $6.00 = $21
50' = 50' x 12" = 600 inches x 3 coils = 1800 inches for
$21
I was getting 8 gas checks per 4" strip from aluminium flashing, thus 2 gas checks per 1" of coil.
1800 inches X 2 = 3600 gas checks for $21
$21.00 / 3600 = 0.58 cents each.
slightly more expensive.
I do not have to cut the coils into strips.
Hornady gas checks are about 3 cents each.

I have learned a lot just in the short time I have owned and used the .30 caliber Checkmaker from Pat Marlin.

Soda pop cans have not worked for me.

There is the price of the paper cutter and the work to cut the aluminium flashing into strips. Sometimes I do not cut the strips to the correct width and either I have to trim the strips to get them to fit or the strips are too narrow and I get partial disks punched.

I plan to try the aluminium coils from Yonky. After using them I could give my opinion of the three aluminium materials: soda pop cans, roof flashing and coils.
I would also like to try the copper coils.
I think you mean $0.002 per gas check and $0.0058 per gas check respectively. How much is your time worth to you? Yonky's coils are already the correct width saving you the time spent cutting and then trimming them again if you didn't get them the right width the first time.

[teddyblu]

1900 pennys for 9600 checks = 0.197 ct. ea math.

[tjones]

But .197 cents is $0.002!

[JakeBlanton]

As far as I'm concerned, the main reason that I would want to use aluminum cans for gas checks is availability. I always have a few empty aluminum beer cans hanging around, so the cost of them is basically ZERO. The roof flashing from Home Depot is nearly as good from an availability standpoint, but if there is only one supplier of the coil strips, that makes me a bit cautious. I haven't got into making my own gas checks though. Being an RVer, I have to make choices on how much stuff I carry around with me all the time since space it at a premium.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Popcans usually work great for Plain base checks.
standard gas checks need thicker material...and as been said, thickness is dictated differently for each application. DO the research and get/buy the correct material.
Multiple layers is a fools game !
Good Luck,
Jon

[ftut]

I thought the Pat Marlin checkmaker and using pop cans was for putting checks on PB boolits? Wouldn't they press on and hold on PB?

[MUSTANG]

it depends what you mean by expensive,you don't have to buy a paper cutter to use my coils,the edges are smooth,the width/gauge/metal spec is spot on.i will even send you samples to try free of charge.check out the testimonial page on the coilandfoil.com website if you wish.
it seems to me that people will mainly only leave feedback when they receive bad service or a bad product,but it would be nice to hear all customers comments both good and bad so you can see what needs fixing... just a thought..

1. You can't go wrong with Yonky's products. I have used them in .357/9mm/.223/.308/30-06/7.65/8mm/.50BMG and am more than satisfied, and highly recommend them to those who seek a consistent product that works well in both Pat Marlin & FreeChex gas check makers.

2. I continually experiment with other source materials to satisfy my curiosity, and ensure that I have alternative sources if needed. The need for this philosophy can be seen with our current shortages in Powder, primer, and 22LR. My experimenting with .50BMG powders (WC860, WC867, & WC872), and load developments for calibers from .223 through .50BMG have kept me shooting while others are out of a better suited powder choice. This also translates to ensuring I have gas check materials for all of my calibers. I recently explored cutting up a thick walled aluminum Hair Spray can my wife had thrown out. It produced some very fine looking .50BMG gas checks that tightly adhered to the base of my 850Grain boolit.

By the way, I far prefer using Yonky's coil for the .50BMG as I spent almost 2 hours to dissect the Aluminum Hair spray can, flatten the curves where the can base and top were created, and to punch out 50 or so checks from the material. I prefer to use the coil product I purchased from Yonky, but having an alternative if needed is essential to my remaining contented.

Mustang

[RogerWatsonfromIdaho]

VHoward

I think you mean $0.002 per gas check and $0.0058 per gas check respectively.

I do mean that.

0.2 cents each = $0.002
0.58 cents each = $0.0058

How much is your time worth to you?
I cannot answer that until I have tried Yonky's coils.

I have ordered samples from Yonky. They should be here this week.

[RogerWatsonfromIdaho]

ftut
That is what I have read, but I have not tried it.

[Bangon]

will yonky ship to Canada though?

[yonky]

I will ship anywhere in the world

[yonky]

Hi Roger , have you had time to try the samples off my coils that Gil sent to you?

[RogerWatsonfromIdaho]

I finally did a gas check material test today.

I used:

1. Aluminum roof flashing gas checks made from:
Aluminum flashing
Amerimax part no 68104
$19.07
4" X 50' 0.014" thick weighs 3 pounds.
Purchased from Ace Hardware.

2. Hornady gas checks

3. 1/2" wide X 0.014" thick aluminium. from Yonky

4. 1/2" wide X 0.012" thick copper. from Yonky

All are 5 shot groups at 40 yards from a rest using a featherweight Winchester model 70 pre '64 in .308 win and a variable scope set on 3 power. 38 grains H4831 and CCI#34 primers in WCC cases. There was unburnt powder in the barrel after shooting. The gas checks were made using a .30 caliber checkmaker from Pat Marlins.

The first photo are the groups using Aluminum roof flashing gas checks.
Groups 1". 1 1/2". 1 1/8".

[RogerWatsonfromIdaho]

The second photo are the groups using Hornady gas checks.
I cannot explain the shot inches low in the first group.

Groups 2 5/8", 4 shots in 1". 1".

[RogerWatsonfromIdaho]

The third photo aluminum strips top two groups and Copper strips in the bottom group. Both from Yonky.
Aluminum strip groups 13/16". 1"
Copper strip group 1 1/4".

Often the cartridges which required the most force to close the bolt are using the aluminum roof flashing gas checks. I guess this means the aluminum roof flashing is a harder material than the others.

The smallest groups are the aluminum strip gas checks from Yonky.

[fcvan]

Roger, great photos on your test, and a thorough evaluation of the different materials. I just wanted to point out you consistently missed the X every time :)

Seriously though, making your own checks, and making them out of what best works for your weapon is the ticket. I like not having to order and wait for stuff I can make myself. Keep up the good work and the great shooting!

[RogerWatsonfromIdaho]

I ordered aluminum gas check material from CoilAndFoil today.

1/2" x .0145" x 50‘ $5 per coil, maximum of 3 coils per small flat rate box, shipping is $6.00

3 coils X $5 = $15
shipping is $6.00
total $21.00

I am looking forward to making more gas checks with it.

Roger

[psychicrhino]

2/10ths of a cent vs nearly 6/10ths of a cent. ;)

[ChuckJaxFL]

<<Often the cartridges which required the most force to close the bolt are using the aluminum roof flashing gas checks. I guess this means the aluminum roof flashing is a harder material than the others.>>

Care to elaborate on that? I can see requiring more force to size the bullet.
Wouldn't more force to close the bolt indicate that your OAL was longer?

[NavyVet1959]

Instead of using Super Glue or Locktite to hold the soda can gas check to the bullet, I wonder if a bit of wax / lube would work.

Plus, not all the beer cans are the same thickness.

[cdngunner]

will yonky ship to Canada though?

He does but shipping costs increases a lot. Don't know where you are located but I would be interested in maybe splitting shipping. For Canada he ships from overseas.

[rosewood]

Something I discovered my second time running my GC 7mm soup can bullets through the Lee sizing die. I had sized some and took the die off the press and then reinstalled for another session and failed to adjust correctly. I noticed some of the GCs were popping off and that there was a dent in the center of the GC. I realized it was the next bullet in line denting the GC on the one above. The instructions says it doesn't matter how you set the die, but I beg to defer. I didn't have the punch set deep enough to push the bullet completely through the resizing neck of the die and the next bullet was forcing the previous bullet through the sizer. The extra load and pointed bullet was denting the GCs and cupping them the wrong way. Anyway, I set the punch to drive the bullet all the way through and no more problems.

Rosewood

[PatMarlin]

If someone wants to use soda cans, and they will not fit or size to your shank as cast, you can try a smaller diameter male die. I can send you one for $9.95. Soda cans can be made to work.

Accuracy may not be the best but may be perfectly acceptable for your needs.

A lot of things come into play-

Bullet diameter as cast. How much you are sizing it? The more the diameter is sized, the better a thin check will fit. But it has to be the correct diameter for your bore. Many new casters have no idea if they have a mold that casts a fat enough diameter for their needs.

Mold shank diameter. How small is it running? Some molds are cut with small diameter running shanks.

More and more there are folks coming aboard new to cast when there's so much to learn and so much miss-information. Mold specs run all over the map. I have molds that cast and size well with soda cans, you can't hardly pry them off.

PB checks of course can solve all of this. If you want a no cost alternative- rock solid fit, PB's win every time.

But as with any process in your reloading, casting, sizing boolits, and sizing to your bore you have to understand the process and find what works for your setup. I've read where a customer bought a gascheck shank die set from me and his gas checks fell off, so he sold it. Then he bought a PB version from me, and the checks fell off in his bore or down range, and he sold that thinking the dies must not work.

He never emailed me about it, but I could have assured him something was seriously wrong with the process somewhere and it can be easily remedied. There is no reason, with a workable metal, and the proper sizing diameter of your cast boolit sized to your bore, homemade gas checks should fall off.

If looking at the process and the fault lies with the dies being out of spec, I will simply send you out another set.

Examples:

Using the Checkmaker™ 45PB Pistol Caliber Dies
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=133265


Do Checkmaker™ gas checks STAY ON once fired?
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=82949

[selpaw]

Just saw this text. Make FreeChecs for .257 PB(which will also fit .243 GC; 270GC bullet and 457 to use on base of 457122 sized to .453 for my 45LC. Have used pop cans and also aluminum printing plates. Used ones that have ink on them are obtained free from local newspaper. If they knew what I used them for they would have a fit. Different calibers can use 1-3 thicknesses depending on shank size. Annealing the material before cutting really helps the finished products fit on the bullet. Once you get the right thicknesses no problem with separation. Old toaster oven anneals the metal easily and can also anneal or heat treat your bullets too. Selpaw