Loading for the 71/84 Mauser...Tear down factory ammo or not?

[johnly]

I scored 99 rounds of factory CIL/Dominion 43 Mauser ammo to feed my 71/84 as there was no Bertram brass to be found. The ammo is in the yellow and blue style box and is loaded with smokeless powder(because I can hear the powder rattling in the case). The lot code is 1ABO3FS if that means anything to someone. I'm guessing that this ammo was produced after CIL discontinued use of mercury fulminate based primers(~1910). If they were mercuric primed, I'd tear down the ammo and de-prime and re-prime with non-corrosive primers. The box says nothing about smokeless, non-corrosive, non-mercuric, just " Super Clean" & "Oilproof Primer".

Any guidance would be welcome.

John

[45 2.1]

The box says nothing about smokeless, non-corrosive, non-mercuric, just " Super Clean" & "Oilproof Primer". John

I haven't found any Canadian ammo in that caliber to use, but from the "super Clean" & "Oilproof Primer" on the box I would expect non-mercuric primers, probably non-corrosive also. I would do an internet search involving the collector ammo sites to try to find out more about those items and the dates those color boxes were used. After you either take one apart or shoot one, look inside at the primer pocket area. The folded head type case has the encased primer protruding..... the next step is the solid head type case, which also had the encased primer protruding unlike the true solid head we use now. Unless you section one, it's hard to tell which it is. In the U.S. the solid head cases were marked SH on the case. What Canada did is unknown to me. Being that they are loaded with smokeless, you probably have good stuff. I would sacrifice a case to test the powder and head construction to be sure myself as you have enough to do that.

[45 2.1]

Some more information garnered from another forum:
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?242531-43-Mauser-ammo-question

[Buckshot]

1889

1889 Discontinue the use of Fulminate of Mercury.

The Dominion Cartridge Company’s Price list for this year offers an extensive line of rimfire and centerfire calibers.Brass shotshells in 10 gauge 2 7/8 case and 12 gauge in 2 ¾ cases offered, as well as Nimrod and TRAP Brand Paper cased shotshells in 10 and 12 gauge only.

See: http://www.cartridge-corner.com/dcco.htm

..............Buckshot

[uscra112]

I'll add to the data base here......

I have two full boxes of CIL .43 Mauser. One is old, kinda yellow with blue, lot number LACD / F25. The other has an aluminized paper box, lot number GAAH / 38P39.

So I pulled the boolit from one of each. Both are loaded with 18 grains of smokeless, little doughnut shaped flakes with a hole. Peering into the case, both look to have the primer in a dome protruding into the powder space. Not a true balloon-head, since the rim is solid metal, not folded. For the limited pressure that the old smokepole can stand, I'd not be afraid of loading it again with smokeless, but I'd stick to powders like Blue Dot or slower. Boolit weighs 385.5 grains on my Pact, BTW. Is .446 inside the case, but there's a band just above the case neck that's .456 diameter.

I can't say a thing about whether the primers are mercuric, or even corrosive. If I ever come to use this brass, I'll disassemble them and reload with my own primers.

Sometime in the not so distant past Huntington's had some brass made, stamped "H.D.S." and "11MM Mauser". This is modern-style solid head brass. I have about 40 pieces. (Not for sale.)

Just to add fuel to the fire, I pulled down one of my jen-u-wine original Mauser cartridges, headstamp indicating that it was loaded in April 1882 in Munich. Its' boolit weighs 366 grains, is .417 at the base, .446 over the paper patch, and .422 under the patch where the boolit hasn't been sized down by the case. The case is a solid head, berdan primer. Powder charge (black, of course) weighs 70 grains.

[uscra112]

BTW as far as I understand the provenance of these old Mausers, they didn't start showing up in Cananada until after WW1, and the company wasn't named CIL until 1927.

(Good link there, buckshot!)

[johnly]

Wonderful information. Thank you!

[Buckshot]

.............The M71 Singles shot Mauser had a groove of .451" and a bore of .433". When the M71/84 repeater came about they made a .005" groove reduction to .446" and maintained the same .433" bore. I have a copy of both rifles. My M71 is as original and does in fact have a .451" groove and my favorite slug to shoot is the Lyman 457121 PH. This is a design intended for the Muzzle loading .451" Whitworth rifle as sold originally by Parker-Hale and it weighs 475grs. A bit heavier then the original Mauser boolit but it stabilizes and shoots like a house afire. I've shot it in the M71 to 600 yards. Lube sized @ .457" and then run up through a Lee .452" size die.

My M71/84 was bought for cheap as some nudge had "Sports-terized" it via cutting off the barrel and magazine to 26". I haven't shot either rifle in quite a few years now, and have less experience with the repeater. I did buy the Lyman mould they list for the "43 Mauser" and had cast, reloaded and fired some, but not enough to really wring out the rifle. Offhand I don't recall offhand what the groove actually slugged. However the M71 shot exceedingly well from the git-go.

...............Buckshot

[leadman]

Just a mention that 43 Mauser brass can be made from 45-90. Involved lathe cutting the base to match the Mauser case base. This is what was used by whoever did the shooting for the #4 Lyman Cast Bullet manual.

[johnly]

I have a lathe and considered that, but the base diameter forward of the rim on 45-90 brass is smaller that 43 mauser chamber.

John