cleaning your gun barrel

[Pappy 1]

How often do you clean your barrel on the range while shooting a black powder case. My rifle is a 50/90. I usually use the blow tube between shots and then after 6 rounds I will run some black powder solvent down the barrel and then wipe it clean and start shooting again. I will repeat this several times on the range. Am I waisting my time cleaning the barrel to much. I am using black powder?

[country gent]

In practic and testing I clean lightly every 10 rounds. 2 wet patches ballistol water or windex with vinegar. and 1 dry. At a match I clean after each string 10 plus sighters. Same soulution depending on conditions I may use a few more wet and dry patches. I also blow tube between shots 3 deep breaths. The thing is to be consistant with your cleaning so the bore starts and ends as close to the same as possible everytime.I shoot black powder and Paper Patched bullets. I also "season" the bore at he start of the day with a patch and whatever bullet lube Im using with the load. Gets things started of right so to say. I also put a ziplock sandwich bag over the muzzle ( the easy zip with tab) this catches patches and crud 100% Set a corner over he front sight and zip snug. Patches fall into the bag and no muss no fuss.

[CanoeRoller]

It depends. If you are shooting in the Desert Southwest on a hot dry day, you will need to clean the barrel more often, If you are shooting in the Pacific Northwest on a cool damp day, you might be able to shoot all day without a significant decrease in accuracy. It will also depend on the type of powder you use, the amount of fouling your load leaves behind, and the sort of accuracy you are after.

Generally, you want to simulate the conditions you will be shooting under. At BPCRS matches, I will typically shoot 11 - 12 shot strings without cleaning in the dry midwest, and can run the whole day without a cleaning in the northwest.

If you are working up a hunting load, try to simulate how you will clean while hunting. One of two shots is all you ought to need in the field.

[Don McDowell]

If you attend a Creedmoor match you'll generally come away with the knowledge that there are few to no blowtubes on the line. The top shooters all tend to wipe the bore between shots.
Altho how often you clean the barrel is going to depend on the type of shooting and level of accuracy you're looking to attain. Nothing wrong with cleaning between shots, but then again a hunting/plinking load should be able to run several rounds before needing to clean the bore.

[Chill Wills]

Hey Don, I enjoyed the Black Powder Target Rifles nationals and seeing you there this year.

For another data point or perspective if you will, I started shooting Mid-range on Monday morning and did not clean until I completed all four days of Mid-range Thursday afternoon. That is four days matches, or twelve yardages with out cleaning down to the steel. Accuracy never drops off.
An other example: In 2002 I shot the World Creedmoor Championships for six days running, blowing tubing, never a rod through the rifle for six days. Each day I would start the morning with 10 or 12 breathes into the PB fouled bore and the first shot would be smack dab in the group all the way to 1000yards.
I finished first place, Huey Wilson finished one point behind for second and Dave Gullo finished third. It works.

Cleaning is over rated - if you know your rifle and the conditions you are shooting in. Sometimes you are better off leaving the good stuff in the barrel and maintaining a steady state condition. That 2002 match was in September at the Whittington Center - Raton, NM, just like this year's National Championship and you can do a few things in the cooler fall weather that you can not do in July.

Like I said, I did not do a full clean this year at the championship but I did blow tube at least in the mornings or all day on the cloudy days. I changed to wiping during the sunny times which pulls much of what is in the barrel out but not all. I would rather shoot dirty blowing than wiping - for a number of reasons. If, like you, someone competes with PP bullets, it is different. GG bullets are much more tolerant of moist fouling.

Michael Rix

[Don McDowell]

Hey Mike it was grand to be there amongst you guys, and looking forward to doing it all over again.
I did shoot the position match with patched only blowtubed and did not clean until the day was over.
The prone match I shot a mix of patched and greasers, with blowtube and wiping. The greasers always seem to leave me some lead no matter what, and the patched I shot for the 600 yd target have to be wiped or they won't chamber.
The creedmoor I did in fact wipe with those patched altho that load has been tested to shoot without wiping, and I'm thinking my wiping routine may have been a bit incorrect for the weather conditions. I do hope to get some of those bullets cast of a harder alloy and tested at 1000 yds in the near future.
I did notice there was quite a few shooters that do wipe even with greasers.
The big question is did you use a spotter like the rest of us mere mortals, or did you do that by yourself like you did when you kicked tail at Byers? [smilie=s:
To those that are interested, Mr. Rix along with being a dang fine person is also one of the finest riflemen of our time and maybe all time, and his scores and wins prove it. Plus is a great pleasure to visit with and learn from.
Eatin elk yet?

[Lead Fred]

With a Thompson's 1000+ lube, I just swab the bore before I start, and let the grease cookies, do the rest of the work.
I dont compete, so Im in no hurry, and shoot for fun.

[Pappy 1]

Thanks for all the good informations. I am not a competition shooter. I mainly use the gun for plinking and hunting. One think for sure, this is a hole new ball game working up a black powder load compared to smokeless powder loads. I have read a few books on black powder gun and reloading but I never really seen anything about cleaning except for a muzzle loader. Thanks again for the good info.
Pappy

[Don McDowell]

Pappy even for plinking and hunting something needs done with fouling control, if the fouling gets "hard" or set up, it will peel lead, leading does nothing for accuracy, and lead piled on top of crusted fouling is always a bugger to get out.

[ColColt]

I've had very good luck here in the humid South with the blow tube. Three breaths after each shot seems to keep the fouling soft. I've used ony SPG and to date, knock on wood, I've experienced no leading and always get the lube star. After a given string of 5 shots I'll run a wet path sprayed with Windex and vinegar followed by two dry ones. I'm considering running a dry patch after each shot so maybe avoid that wild fouling shot with a new string. That should simulate a clean bore each shot.

Glen of White's Lube is sending me some experimental lube for BPCR's to try out and wants me to report back with the results to see if he needs to add/change any ingredient. I'm sure it will work great and ma eliminate that pesky leaking with SPG.

[Chill Wills]

Wow! Man Don, Thanks and that is about the nicest reply I have ever received on the forum!

I am not up to speed on the PP bullets for BPCR competition, I can make them sing in the LR muzzleloader but I have never yet got them to shoot as well as GG bullets in my breach-loaders. I must admit, I just have not put in the time either. I thought I could fake it in the American Creedmoor Cup two years running and got my head handed to me on the scoreboard. Some day I will jump in and work it out. From the first ACC match I held I had an award for HIGH Paper patch shooter and believe they should rule but we are not seeing enough rifleman using them to have them make a big showing in the awards yet. (as you know)Paper patch bullet accuracy = cleaning to a consistent bore condition before every shot. The GG bullets like a little moist BP fowling to run on. Wiping down to the steel with GG bullets often = leading under a sunny hot sky.
You wrote"The creedmoor I did in fact wipe with those patched altho that load has been tested to shoot without wiping, and I'm thinking my wiping routine may have been a bit incorrect for the weather conditions. I do hope to get some of those bullets cast of a harder alloy and tested at 1000 yds in the near future.
I did notice there was quite a few shooters that do wipe even with greasers."
I am with you on that. No blow tubes in HOT conditions. Any time the rifle is in the warm sun I need to wipe with water soluble oil/water mix to keep the leading down. Though lead it still does, I am always amazed how well these rifles will shoot even with some lead in the tube.

The big question is did you use a spotter like the rest of us mere mortals, or did you do that by yourself like you did when you kicked tail at Byers? Hugh Wilson and I did not coach each other at all. Over the years I mostly kept my own company shooting and I find that in the target rifle matches, not the silhouette matches where time is short, is that I do better if no one talks to me about conditions. The one thing Hugh and I did for each other, because we can, in a coaching match is stop the rifleman IF NEEDED once he is in the sights when the conditions change. After you are looking through the sights you can miss a flag or mirage change. If we didn't do this for each other we would lower our own score. In "no coaching matches" Like the American Creedmoor Cup all competitors have to contend with this and so it is an even playing field.

I'll be looking to let the air out of an elk the middle of October.
Michael Rix

[Don McDowell]

Mike paper patching for dead serious accuracy as you know is a time consuming process, and even then sometimes what seems like it might be a superduty load turns out to be a dud when you leave the home range and head to someplace full of real riflemen..But it's fun and it just seems like seriously wrong to shoot a greaser thru the 44-77.
I think you may be on to something with the self spotting, I'm thinking I may practice that a good bit in this coming year.
Talked to Kirk this afternoon and they still haven't got the 44 reamers in, so looks like I'll probably shoot my critters with smokeless and jacketed this year. Not really wanting to knock the front site out of this roughrider and replace it with a blade just to shoot a stinky lil anitgoat and a cow elk.
Maybe see you in November, weather and cattle depending.