Tale of Two Leverguns

[TXGunNut]

I've run into the exact same problem several months apart in two somewhat different leverguns and it's got me a bit puzzled. First rifle is a 1969 vintage M94 in 32WS, second is a 2008 vintage 336 in 30-30. Boolit (for now) in the 94 is 50/50 HT RD 323-170(180), sized .323 w/ Hornady GC's and LLA. Boolit for the 30-30 is ACWW RD 311-165, sized .311, same GC's & lube. Both rifles like plinker loads with Universal in the 32WS and 2400 for the 30-30. Things get a little odd when I step things up with RX7 powder. In each rifle the groups started to come together as I worked up to my target velocity of 2100 fps until I got to 27 grs; the boolits seemed to lose stability and wobble at 25 & 50 yds, some even missed the 8.5 X 11 target @ 100 yds. I didn't think much of it when it first happened in the 94 several months ago, goal was a fun plinking rifle anyway. When I noticed the same problem in my newly acquired 336 I checked my notes and the headscratching began. Neither rifle showed any noticeable leading and I know the RD boolits like to go fast, alloy should be adequate for the speed in either cartridge.
Question is, why do the boolits start wobbling just as the groups start coming together? Only hint I've seen is in the Lyman CB manual, they noted that they used CCI 200 primers with RX7 and a few other powders in the 30-30. Do I need to push them a little harder, make them a little harder or try to find some CCI 200 primers? Or none of the above?
I enjoy shooting the plinker loads and the 2400 load should be plenty for TX whitetail & hogs in either rifle (like I need another hunting rifle) but I'd like to have a load that comes close to factory velocities.

[popper]

Is that the 165 or 170 RD? The Marlin version works fine in my 336 but the 165 to didn't. Keyholeing or groups just open up in a circle pattern? What is your 2400 load? I loaded up some @ 13, 16 was too much.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Can also be for your rifle you have passed the threshold of pressure for that particular boolit combination. Add some more WW to the mix. Try 75% WW . Try a fatter boolit.
I use 50-50 for all sorts of applications. But there comes the time when the mix cannot support the pressure.
Mike in Peru

[Dan Cash]

I have expeerienced the same event in two Marlin .30-30s using a Lyman 31141 bullet (175 gr) over RL7. I went to RL15 and achieve 2200 +- with very good accuracy.

[TXGunNut]

Is that the 165 or 170 RD? The Marlin version works fine in my 336 but the 165 to didn't. Keyholeing or groups just open up in a circle pattern? What is your 2400 load? I loaded up some @ 13, 16 was too much.


RD 311-165 for the 30-30, 14 grs 2400. Round groups for the most part but up to 2/3 of the holes are oblong.

[TXGunNut]

Good morning
Can also be for your rifle you have passed the threshold of pressure for that particular boolit combination. Add some more WW to the mix. Try 75% WW . Try a fatter boolit.
I use 50-50 for all sorts of applications. But there comes the time when the mix cannot support the pressure.
Mike in Peru

That's what I was thinking but the 30-30 boolit is ACWW.

[TXGunNut]

I have expeerienced the same event in two Marlin .30-30s using a Lyman 31141 bullet (175 gr) over RL7. I went to RL15 and achieve 2200 +- with very good accuracy.

Now I'm confused, I was thinking I needed a faster powder.

[RickinTN]

A faster powder would build pressure quicker and also produce more pressure for a given velocity. The goal is to be "gentle" on the bullet while achieving the desired velocity. The lower pressure produced by a slower powder is more gentle on the bullet. I would think Varget, RL-15, 4064, 748 and some others similar might be worth a try for the higher velocity.
Good Luck,
Rick

[TXGunNut]

I think you're right, Rick. I've been loading j-words far too long and even after a few years of loading boolits I get headed off in the wrong direction. I keep 4064, Varget and 748 around, may try it next time I get interested in the "fast" stuff. I'm beginning to think 1600 fps may be just the ticket for S TX deer and most hogs.

[pls1911]

I load all my 30-30 with either the SAECO #15 160 grain or the NOE/RD 165 both of which cast about 170 in my alloy.
25-26 grains seem to be my sweetspot, shuold be about 1900 fps and remains point blank out to about 100 yards with open sights. Cast soft, checked and heat treated HARD, sized and lubed at .312, relubed with 50-50 lla-jpw are death to deer and pigs, and very accurate in every 30-30 I have from 1893 through1968, as well as Savage bolt guns and TCs.

I submit that your bullet is marginally undersized and too soft. Size .312 and heat treat your bullets and I'll bet your issue goes away.

[TXGunNut]

What powder are you using, pls1911?