Leading issue with 9mm

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

125 grain Lee RN, water quenced COWW, with 4.5 gr Unique, 45/45/10 whitelabel lube. Should be around 1000 fps.
I'm getting leading up and down the barrel that starts about 1/2" past the chamber (S&W 9c).

Think I need to slow it down?

[fcvan]

What gun are you shooting? What did the slug measure to? What did you size the boolit to? Ve been shooting the Lee 356-125 2R for 28 years, in about 10 different 9mm pistols and 2 rifles. I've used everything from home made loob, Javalina, and Rooster Red, and lately White Label BAC. Ive cast from WW to soft range scrap and loaded over 5 grains of Unique. The only time I've had leading or accuracy issues was when I sized smaller than .358 diameter. When I sized to .357 my pistols patterned, keyholes, and left a leaded bore. Switching back to .358 cured those issues. Oh ya, check to see if your seat and crimp is resizing your boolit too small.

[kweidner]

have you slugged your bbl? Alloy makeup? What kind of crimp? Answer this maybe we can help you.

[GaryN]

I haven't yet loaded for the 9mm. But there is a great stickie with lots of info. in the pistol forum.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?121607-Setting-up-for-boolits-in-a-new-9mm

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

Thanks for the help. The gun is a S&W 9compact (3.5" bbl). Boolits are cast to 0.358 and I did not size them. They are a TL boolit. The allow, as I mentioned above, is whatever is in COWW. Taper crimped. I have not slugged this barrel. I use a Lee die set followed by a Lee factory crimp die.

[bowenrd]

Load a small batch without using the Lee FCD and check results. The FCD will reduce bullet diameter.

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

Load a small batch without using the Lee FCD and check results. The FCD will reduce bullet diameter. That's a good point. What makes me think you're on to something, is the fact that the cast boolits that I bought (MO Bullet Co) never leaded. But that was before I bought the Lee FCD. I need to test that out!

[Iron Mike Golf]

Jayhawkhuntclub, get two measurements: after seating only (no crimp) and after seating and crimping. You need to check and see if your cases are swaging your boolits, too. 9mm brass gets thicker as you get closer to the cartridge base and the expander is likely made for a .356 jacketed bullet. Some folks shorten a 38/357 expander and use that.

[pt4u2nv]

"M" Die may be the answer also.

[Larry Gibson]

Add 2% tin to your COWWs and AC (air cool) the cast bullets for 7 - 10 days before sizing/loading/use to age. TL with straight LLA as per the instructions. The .358 sizing is probably ok if they chamber w/o the use of the FCD. I also suggest a faster powder than Unique such as Bullseye at 4 gr with that bullet.

Larry Gibson

[MtGun44]

Too hard and probably too small. No need to water quench, make sure you are delivering a
.357 or .358 diam to the barrel. FCD is not usually a problem in 9mm due to tapered case,
but the only way is to make a dummy round, pull the boolit and see. Tumble lube is a
marginal system, but some have made it work in 9mm. I suggest Lee 356 120 TC
at .357 with NRA 50-50 lube for a "known good" situation.

Check the stickies on "Setting up a new 9mm for boolits"

Bill

[fredj338]

Many complain about leading & the TL bullet. IMO, stop water dropping, try air cooled. I have run lead in my 357sig @ 1200fps, no issues. I do NOT use TL designs & Alox mix though. Pull a bullet after seating & measure it. If it is smaller than 0.001" over groove dia, that is part of the problem. I also shun the LFCD for any handgun loads.

[Boolseye]

AH! The #1 problem on castboolits–the Lee TL 9mm molds!

I'm one of the ones who persisted, probably out of sheer bloody-mindedness, but the TC version is a laser if you get
the kinks worked out. Can't speak for the RN.

if you choose to stay with this bullet
1) get a .38 S&W expander plug, or a .38spl/.357 plug to get the cases opened a couple .001 more.
2) don't size them at all. You want them as big as possible. I see you're already doing that.
3) shoot them.

Good luck! if you feel like throwing the mold in the bin, get a non-TL mold, such as the 356-120 Bill recommends, or a NOE. PM me if you want more writing on this mold than it probably deserves,
BE

[rmatchell]

I would try loading without the FCD as well. Then move on to air cooling. I think your problem will go away after that.

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

I slugged the barrel (twice). The micrometer says it's 0.353". My bullets are being cast at about 0.358". Think that's my problem?

[R.M.]

I'd recheck your slugging results. That's pretty small.

[mdi]

Load a small batch without using the Lee FCD and check results. The FCD will reduce bullet diameter.
Yep, FCD is a real problem with lead bullets. Personally, I have no use for an FCD as I can adjust all my dies so all my ammo chambers trouble free. I like to seat and "crimp" in two separate operations and use a plain old taper crimp die...

[jmort]

The FCD die, like the Lee Precision sizing die, need to be opened-up to the diameter you want, if it is swaging your boolits. The FCD is not the problem if it is the correct size.

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

Yeah, it's NOT the FCD. I pulled one and it was not swaged down.

[1Shirt]

Yep, probably to hard and to small!
1Shirt!

[MtGun44]

Are you using calipers or micrometer? .353 sounds unlikely, I suspect a measurement error.

Calipers are not accurate enough for this job.

Bill

[capt.hollis]

You could be shaving your bullet when your seating. I'm fixin to try the Lyman 2 step expander die.

[soldierbilly1]

OP I use the Mtgun44 suggestion. ie, lee 120 tc w NRA 50/50 at 357. works on all 3 9's that I own! Note, I also use a Lyman M die and a Lee taper crimp die, no FCD. works for me. Also, just got the Lee TL bullet to work with WQ ing the bullets, LLA and no sizing. All good advice on this board and the sticky. I felt the sizing and the check to see if your case was swaging the bullet were most key. Good luck.

billy boy

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

UPDATE: Well I believe I have it worked out. The answer was to use water cooled range scrap, the Lee factory crimp die and to size them a little smaller (0.356). The load was 5.5 gr of HS-6. That seemed to minimize the leading and the accuracy is acceptable (average 2 1/4" at 20 yards) for a defensive pistol. Thanks to all for their input.

[Doughty]

A lot (maybe all) S&Ws have odd numbered lands and grooves in the barrel. Unless you have the right tools, you'll likely not get an accurate measurement of your barrel slug. Sounds like you've got an acceptable combination worked out now though. Might be something to keep in mind on future projects though.

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

A lot (maybe all) S&Ws have odd numbered lands and grooves in the barrel. Unless you have the right tools, you'll likely not get an accurate measurement of your barrel slug.

You're right about that. I'm not really sure what my exact measurement is after slugging. But know it's on the small side; especially compared to my other 9mm.

[MtGun44]

The first case ever where I have heard of going smaller helped a leading
problem. I think the softer is the improvement, since range scrap probably
doesn't harden much in water dropping.

Bill

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

Bill: I'm telling you this bore is small. I drove a slug through my STI (5") and it was easy. The same slug was a bear to get through my 9c (3.5"): same batch, same day. While it's very challenging to measure the M&P slug, I am confident it is not over 0.356". Also, my range scrap is made up primarily of cast bullets. I hand pick it to be so. I would think it would have plenty of antimony and be fairly hard.

[mikeyman]

I use the lee FCD in the fourth stage of the 550b just to get the bell out of the case mouth. It can be easily adjusted to not put too hard of a crimp.