c430-310-rf in a S&W 29-10

[crackshotsdad]

While searching this forum for pertinent info on the Lee 310 grain boolit, I noticed some instances of folks having trouble with it in their M29's. My dad has a very new M29-10 and its my understanding that S&W has beefed it up so it can handle the recoil of the heavier or higher pressure loads. Dad likes recoil! He has arms like I have legs! (a big boy to be sure). I'd like to make some boolits for him using the Lee 310 gc, but now I'm concerned about shooting them through his M29. Any load suggestions for that boolit/revolver combo? I should receive my new mold next Wed. so I have a week to figure this out. Any help would be appreciated!

[TCLouis]

Might want to confirm this load with a Load Manual and then stuff that boolit over 18.5 of H110 load to short OAL crimp groove.

More powder and to long OAL crimp groove if your cylinder will support it!

[TMenezes]

H110 is great for max power loads, but doesn't like to be loaded less then max.

If your interested in magnum powders that have allot more flexibility but still plenty of power look at Alliant 2400 and Accurate #9. The max loads arn't much behind H110, but you have the freedom to load whatever feels comfortable to shoot and doesn't beat you or your gun to death. Both Alliant and Accurate have free online load data so you don't have to buy their manuels if you don't already have them. I have had a hard time finding 2400, but #9 is fairly easy to come by around here anyways. On nice thing about #9 is it flows like water through my powder measure with super accurate charge weights. Almost flows to well as it leeks just a bit on my bench.

[crackshotsdad]

Ready for an update?
I received the Lee 310gr gc mold, 1000 Hornady gc's, and 100 Starline .44 mag cases in the mail a couple of days ago.

1st- tips on casting these heavy boolits would be appreciated. I can cast tl .358's, tl.430's and tl.452's without a hitch, but these 310 grainers just don't want to come out without wrinkles! I've tried adjusting the temp up and down- hotter seems to work better. By the time I get the alloy and the mold up to temp for wrinkle free boolits, the next pair are frosted. If I give more cool down time (an extra 10-15 seconds) between casts, the next pair are again wrinkled! Help!

2nd- After a few hours of trying, I managed to cast 60 acceptable boolits. I have the Lee push through sizing die. Most of the gas checks will fit the base with a gentle 'snap' into position. After pushing them through the die, the checks will, with some effort, rotate on the base of the boolit- is this normal?

3rd- I'm using an RCBS single stage press and discovered (when making a 'dummy' round) that the seating plunger digs into the very wide meplat of this boolit. Any suggestions on a remedy for this?

I'm still pretty new to this boolit casting thing (although I'm sure that I'm addicted!) and would appreciate any tips, advice, and personal experience you all may have to offer.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Ready for an update?
I received the Lee 310gr gc mold, 1000 Hornady gc's, and 100 Starline .44 mag cases in the mail a couple of days ago.

1st- tips on casting these heavy boolits would be appreciated. I can cast tl .358's, tl.430's and tl.452's without a hitch, but these 310 grainers just don't want to come out without wrinkles! I've tried adjusting the temp up and down- hotter seems to work better. By the time I get the alloy and the mold up to temp for wrinkle free boolits, the next pair are frosted. If I give more cool down time (an extra 10-15 seconds) between casts, the next pair are again wrinkled! Help!

2nd- After a few hours of trying, I managed to cast 60 acceptable boolits. I have the Lee push through sizing die. Most of the gas checks will fit the base with a gentle 'snap' into position. After pushing them through the die, the checks will, with some effort, rotate on the base of the boolit- is this normal?

3rd- I'm using an RCBS single stage press and discovered (when making a 'dummy' round) that the seating plunger digs into the very wide meplat of this boolit. Any suggestions on a remedy for this?

I'm still pretty new to this boolit casting thing (although I'm sure that I'm addicted!) and would appreciate any tips, advice, and personal experience you all may have to offer.

1st. For molds like the 44 310gr., I use a fan to blow onto the area where the boolits pile up, that helps cool the mold the right amount. I do like my boolits to have a light, but uniform frosting on them.

2nd. Not necessarily, but it's not a real problem.

3rd. If you don't like the marks, you can order and change out the plunger...or make your own, if you have the ability. When you get deep into cast boolits, you'll be ordering/making lots of custom bits and pieces. You'll may soon find out that the expander in the normal dies sets don't expand the case mouth enough...depending on what size you are sizing your boolits.

Lastly, regarding loading them. If you want a hot load, start with the H110 and check multiple sources for 'starting' data. Then load a few up with the 'common' starting load for Dad and see what he thinks of shootin' those. Any 29 will surely handle a starting load...once you start getting to the Max pressure is when you start shaking apart a 29. I haven't heard about S&W beefing up the 29 recently ??? If he likes the big recoil, he shoulda got a RedHawk...Or better yet, some other larger caliber in a S&W X-frame. I love my 500 Mag :)

[RickinTN]

The remedy I've found, and I know many will disagree, is to smoke the cavities of the mold with a disposable lighter. A very light smoking. I think you'll find most of your wrinkles to go away.
Rick

[Shuz]

Or perish the suggestion, I sometimes use Midway's mold Drop-out graphite spray.

[taco650]

I have this same mold and had some of the same issues. Things got better by running hot and extra smoking (I used wood matches but I've heard skinny candles do a better job). I also water dropped mine. Alloy was COWW w/range scrap. My experience with the gas checks was similar to yours but none have come off during storage (this included a trip in a U-Haul from Oregon to Georgia).

As for shooting them in your dad's M-29, I'd think OAL would be the critical factor. They fit fine in my Dan Wesson 44 when loaded to the short crimp groove.

I made up some loads with 296 that were too hot for my taste so now I'm trying to get something mellower with Unique but the groups aren't there yet (recoil is LOL). Just keep working at it

[crackshotsdad]

Ok- so I think I have the smoke- temp- timing thing figured out in that I can 'finally' cast up some well filled out consistent hunks of lead now! Thanks for your input on that one!

taco650: The 296 loads that were to hot for your taste, what was your start charge? which primers? ect. Any pressure signs?

[taco650]

Ok- so I think I have the smoke- temp- timing thing figured out in that I can 'finally' cast up some well filled out consistent hunks of lead now! Thanks for your input on that one!

taco650: The 296 loads that were to hot for your taste, what was your start charge? which primers? ect. Any pressure signs?

I think it was about 22-23 gr but I really don't remember. Primers were Win Large pistol. No excessive pressure signs, just too much recoil for my taste. Guess I'm getting too old to appreciate a sore shooting hand, LOL!

[waco]

Some load data for you
86321

[DougGuy]

Unique burns too fast for me for large pistol cases. Stuff gets unpredictable over about 10.0gr in a 44mag or 45 Colt case. Pressure spikes can occur.

For max loads, yes H110/W296 are the norm but if you are going to a slightly less power level, 2400 in the .44 magnum is the go-to powder of choice for many, myself included.

My favorite load for the C430-310-RF is 16.0gr 2400 seated long (1.710) using WLP primers in Starline brass. This is a great hunting load when cast in 50/50+2% it's softer than acww and I get outstanding accuracy and almost zero leading. Cases extracted without problems, and the primers were just beginning to show the machine marks in the Ruger's recoil shield. They weren't flattened, but another half grain of 2400 would have certainly changed that.

I think I would stick with 2400 in the M29 and save the H110 for Rugers and such.

[crackshotsdad]

Some load data for you
86321
What book is this? AND where can I find it?

[bhn22]

Looks like Lymans latest "Cast Bullet Handbook". You may have long range stability issues with the Unique load in a Smith because of the twist rate. It would probably be okay for short range use though. BTW, S&Ws "Endurance" package does not make the N frame equal to heavier frame revolvers like the Redhawk. It is a distinct improvement over the earlier N frames though. Personally, if I need any more power than 250 gr at about 1200 fps, I take a bigger gun.

[taco650]

What is the twist rate in a M-29? SBH is 1-20.

[waco]

Looks like Lymans latest "Cast Bullet Handbook". You may have long range stability issues with the Unique load in a Smith because of the twist rate. It would probably be okay for short range use though. BTW, S&Ws "Endurance" package does not make the N frame equal to heavier frame revolvers like the Redhawk. It is a distinct improvement over the earlier N frames though. Personally, if I need any more power than 250 gr at about 1200 fps, I take a bigger gun.

Yep. Lymans latest cast book.

[bobthenailer]

I had a 300 gr saeco mould years ago , sold it as i saw no real advantage over a 240 / 250 gr boolet in the 44 mag as well as wasting the extra 60+ grains of lead per boolet. in the 44 mag my go to general purpose plinking boolet is the saeco 420 200gr tc boolet although i have a 240 gr saeco & a 200gr wc and a RCBS 240 sil boolet

[crackshotsdad]

Finally the long overdue update: Starline brass, w296@ 18.5 gr., WLP, 1.610 o.a.l., Lee 310 gr gc (lino so with gas check they actually weigh 297 gr.) sized to .430 and tumble lubed with lla. Test gun: Marlin 1894 20" 1 in 38" twist barrel. A 5 shot string over the chronograph gave an average velocity of 1,402 fps at 10 feet. To my great surprise, no keyholes or tumbling at any range from 25 to 200 yrds! No leading after 40 rounds. Accuracy was well, just hard to believe! At 25 yrds I put 4 rounds through 1 clover leafed hole and got so excited about it that I pulled my 5th shot and opened the group up to about 2". At 200 yrds I managed to drop 3 out of 5 rounds onto the 6" shoot-n-see (the other 2 were pretty darn close!) This load is relatively mild and well behaved out of my 1894, but the question still remains as to weather or not it will do well in my dad's m29. Any follow up is still greatly appreciated especially any notes of caution.

[taco650]

Who can argue with that accuracy out of a lever gun? Not me!

[dubber123]

My LEE copy of that boolit cast at 315 grains out of WW's. I shot quite a few from Federal brass with a CCI mag primer and 18.0 grains of H-110 from my 4" S&W mountain gun with no noticeable wear to the gun. I shot a LBT 300 gr. WFN with 19.0 Grs. of H-110 with similar results.

[crackshotsdad]

taco650;2969339]Who can argue with that accuracy out of a lever gun? Not me![/I]
And that leads me to the one regret from that after noon of shooting.... the Lee 310 gr gc won't feed from the tube in my 1894, had to chamber them by hand.

[waco]

And that leads me to the one regret from that after noon of shooting.... the Lee 310 gr gc won't feed from the tube in my 1894, had to chamber them by hand.
This mold has two crimp grooves. The upper one is meant for the marlin 1894.
Mine feed just fine.
Waco

[dubber123]

It won't feed in mine either, it catches the meplat on the top of the chamber, a common problem in .44 mag Marlins. It is supposed to be an easy modification to make which keeps the carrier a little lower. I'll have to pull mine apart some day and see.

[IDSS]

It won't give you as much recoil, but I've been having pretty good luck with IMR4227. My last round of experiments was with 20 grains and the Lee 310 seated long.

I got 1300 and change out of my 20 inch Rossi, around 1050 from a 4 5/8 SBH, and 980 from a 4 inch Redhawk.

Hodgdon's site shows comparable boolits loaded with up to 22 grains, if I recall. The 20 grain load already recoils enough to warrant a taller sight on the SBH. It might regress to lighter boolits. It's stainless, but that tiny roll pin freaks me out.
I may sneak up higher with the rifle and the Redhawk. The Redhawk is slated for bear defense duties and 15-25 yard accuracy is plenty and I hope the rifle will get its inaugural deer or elk this year.