Good Alloy for casting .452 230 grain rn

[carolina556]

Guys, I attempted due dillagence in reviewing many of the posts here before asking this questions, but with all the alloys out there I can't seem to nail this answer down.... Can you guys let me know what is the best alloy (by percentages) for casting .452 230 grainers, round nose....this is going to go down the barrel of my Springy 1911 (stainless match barrel) so I want to make sure I do it correctly!! Thanks for the input, and if any ingot sellers see this please feel free to leave a link to where I can buy the proper lead for it... I am working with wheel weights for now, but want to get some lead specificly for this....

Next project is 200 grain .309 round nose for AR-15.....Any allow help on that would also be helpful.

Love reading the stuff here, you guys are full of knowledge, I hope to catch up soon haha

-John

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

COWW with 2% tin added is about as good as it gets IMHO,
but if you try straight WW and have success, don't let us tell you what to use :)

[aspangler]

COWW with 2% tin added is about as good as it gets IMHO,
but if you try straight WW and have success, don't let us tell you what to use :)

A+ on this. That's what I use and NO leading.

[Bohica793]

Agreed. I am running Lyman 452374 at 12BHN through my Glock and loving them. At the relatively low velocity of a .45ACP, you neither need nor want something overly hard.

[skeettx]

Just plain wheel weights work fine.
The added tin helps the flow, but I have cast many thousands with just WWs.
No leading, accuracy great, feeding perfect, all is well.
Mike

[carolina556]

Thanks for the awesome info guys, I have heard the WW is good as well, just saw several companies who make bullet alloys and not sure what the actual consistency of WW's are by percentage... I will tinker with all of the above suggestions and test as I go. Friend of mine uses a 1/2tsp of greese to flux and says that works awesome too. So here I go wish me luck!! Keep the input coming I appreciate all of it very much.

Do you use the same WW for casting SUBSONIC 300 blackout rifle bullets like the 309 -200 I was talking about also?

[WILCO]

The Lymann Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th Edition lists #2 alloy for the LEE TL452-230-TC.

[WILCO]

Do you use the same WW for casting rifle bullets like the 309 -200 I was talking about also?

I use WW in all of my casting, but I'm also running some "range scrap" mixed in.

Make sure you pick up a copy of the Lymann manual I referenced above, as it will answer many of your questions concerning alloy BHN. A LEE lead hardness tester is a handy tool too.

[Bohica793]

Friend of mine uses a 1/2tsp of greese to flux and says that works awesome too.

In my opinion, using petroleum based product for flux is not a good idea. Many of us use recommend dry sawdust for fluxing and find it to be the best. I would point you to the writings of Glen Fryxell on this and various casting related subjects at From Ingot to Target (http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm). A must read for any caster.

[carolina556]

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This is the results of my first batch!! What do you guys think...had about 25# WW got about 20# of lead give or take :) Was a little tenative with the pour so they are a little sloppy I guess....skimmed off all the steel then fluxed it then skimmed and fluxed again....

[jsizemore]

I do 50/50 coww/soww and then add 2% tin/pewter in a kart barrel. Straight coww was too hard for the load I shoot and leads the barrel.

Where in carolina are you?

[carolina556]

the Lowcountry...near Hilton Head Island, SC

[turmech]

45 acp in a 1911 is not a picky one (at least for me anyway). I have used as hard as WW and as soft as 3 parts lead pipe to 1 part WW. I would say most anything you fill the mold with would do fine. Same is true for my 38 special rounds.

I load my AR (300 blackout) with a couple of different 150ish bullets with gas checks to around 1900-2000 fps with either air cooled WW. I have also used what I call mystery hard. It was smelted from unknown ingots. It is slightly softer than WW.

[el34]

Good looking ingots! Fun isn't it?
Me too on the 12BHNish alloy. I always alloy with tin but that's so I don't have to experiment with leaving it out.

I think it's worth mentioning, "WW" comes in two categories- Clip On and Stick On. Big difference in hardness, COWW is 9-12BHN, SOWW around 6.2 or so.

[shadowcaster]

Looks like you are well on your way..

I have found that straight COWW's work well with .452 also mixed 50/50 with pure. As far as adding tin, I always try and cast some without tin 1st. If they fill out fine, why waste the extra $ on tin, it's expensive. If they are not filling out I then add tin in 1% increments until proper fill out is achieved. I very rarely exceed 2% tin with 1% being my most common added amount. For a 20 pound pot, 3.2 ounces added tin will be 1%. I kinda like the extra bit of experimenting/tinkering.

Shad

[evan price]

In my opinion, using petroleum based product for flux is not a good idea. Many of us use recommend dry sawdust for fluxing and find it to be the best. I would point you to the writings of Glen Fryxell on this and various casting related subjects at From Ingot to Target (http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm). A must read for any caster.

I flux scrap melts with used motor oil. It works very well, better than anything else I've tried.

My rule of thumb is 10 BHN per thousand. For 45 auto you want 8-10 BHN lead. I get that with range scrap, which for me is a mix of slugs, cast bullets and jacketed and runs 8-8.5 BHN lately and water drops to about 10 BHN.
Otherwise, straight clip wheel weights work great. No need to add tin if you are using a basic mold without hollow points.

[carolina556]

Thanks for all of the positive feedback..... I am using mostly COWW and some SOWW but not much.... As soon as I cast some I will let you guys see how they turned out, waiting to get my handles, I forgot to order them like a noob, only ordered the mold ;X

[Larry Gibson]

As we see many add tin these days to COWWs and some don't. Whether or not tin is needed will depend on the % content of lad/antimony/tin in the particular batch you have. The content varies considerably across the country and how much of your WWs have been recycled and how many times. Some add as little tin as needed for "fillout". However, "fillout" is only half of what the added tin does to the alloy. The other half is theadded tin makes the antimony mix better in solution in the lead. This solution makes a much better overall alloy than just considering the 3 parts seperately.

I arbitrarly add 2% tin to COWWs obtained these days. Most of todays COWWs will have less than .05% tin and about 3% antimony with the rest lead and a few other trace elements. A balance of 2 - 2.5% tin to the 3% antimony is a very good balance to the lead. This produces an alloy with AC'd BHNs in the 14 - 17 range most often. This is comparable to Lyman's #2 alloy but is a little more malleable which is desirable for most cast bullet shooting. That COWW + 2% tin alloy will make excellent cast 45 ACP cast bullets. You can stretch it by adding 10 - 30 % lead as long as the bullet nose doesn't hang up or deform when feeding. If you WQ then 50% tin can be added to further stretch your supply of COWWs.

Adding the tin will make the alloy "fill out" in the mould much better producing more consistent bullets. It will balance out the antimony in solution in the lead preventing "antimonal wash". Adding the tin will also simply make it a much better alloy. As to expense; 1 lb of tin will do 50 lbs of COWW alloy for a 2% mix. That is a lot of bullets (1500+ 230 gr bullets or 2,250+ if you add 50% lead) so whether the "expense" is worth it to you is up to you. Having dealt with the frustration of a poor alloy giving poor bullets too many times the expense is worth it to me to not deal with those frustrations anymore.

Larry Gibson

[carolina556]

I may just do the tin, I want to first check out how these work, then go from there...its seems the 2% tin comes up a lot, so more than likely it will go in as tin pellets or something. We will see :) Thanks for the input and the science lesson as well.

[jmort]

"However, "fillout" is only half of what the added tin does to the alloy. The other half is theadded tin makes the antimony mix better in solution in the lead. This solution makes a much better overall alloy than just considering the 3 parts seperately."

Yes indeed. I'm pro tin. So you add a pound of tin, $20.00 (max price point), to 50 pounds of COWW. You can then cast 2,380 150 grain boolits, and your added cost per boolit is $ .0084 per boolit, less than one cent more. I actually like to add 1.5 pounds of tin to 50 lbs of COWW, so I'm out about 1 1/2 extra cents per boolit. There is a synergy between the lead/tin/antimony as noted.

[el34]

"However, "fillout" is only half of what the added tin does to the alloy. The other half is theadded tin makes the antimony mix better in solution in the lead. This solution makes a much better overall alloy than just considering the 3 parts seperately." -Larry Gibson

Yes indeed. I'm pro tin. So you add a pound of tin, $20.00 (max price point), to 50 pounds of COWW. You can then cast 2,380 150 grain boolits, and your added cost per boolit is $ .0084 per boolit, less than one cent more. I actually like to add 1.5 pounds of tin to 50 lbs of COWW, so I'm out about 1 1/2 extra cents per boolit. There is a synergy between the lead/tin/antimony as noted.

+1. It's like low-cost insurance and for me it removes another variable that I would worry about when boolits come out ugly.

Thank you Larry.

[ColColt]

Tin is the most expensive part about casting. At $15-20 per pound, most places that are reputable, it's a necessary evil.

[shadowcaster]

"However, "fillout" is only half of what the added tin does to the alloy. The other half is the added tin makes the antimony mix better in solution in the lead. This solution makes a much better overall alloy than just considering the 3 parts seperately."

Yes indeed. I'm pro tin. So you add a pound of tin, $20.00 (max price point), to 50 pounds of COWW. You can then cast 2,380 150 grain boolits, and your added cost per boolit is $ .0084 per boolit, less than one cent more. I actually like to add 1.5 pounds of tin to 50 lbs of COWW, so I'm out about 1 1/2 extra cents per boolit. There is a synergy between the lead/tin/antimony as noted.

I do agree that tin is necessary for not just fill out, but the whole flow and harmony of the alloy. Fill out is the indicator whether everything is just right or not!. If not.. I then add tin accordingly.

Shad