Opinions/Help on a .280 Ross Sporting Rifle

[birch]

I have recently become quite bored of rifle/pistol hunting. That is, most rifles that I can afford bore me beyond belief, and most of the rifles that I cannot afford bore me because all I can do is look!!

Today, I made an 2 hour round trip to buy a new melting pot at a semi-local gunsmith shop and I noticed a fine piece of walnut and spectacular checkering. I looked closer and realized it was a Ross in .280. I have never seen one of these in any gunshow or gunshop before so I truly did not know anything about the rifle except what I had read about the bolt issues and overall bad opinions about safety. I talked to the owner and he assured me that this was the 1910 sporting version and the issues had been fixed, but he did admit that if the bolt was not put in the gun correctly after cleaning, it could fire without being compeletely in battery.

However, I have been thinking about this gun nonstop. It is beautiful and smooth and of the highest quality. Best of all--I can afford it!! I believe it is in 99 percent condition and the shopsmith wants 685 for the gun and has an original box of ammo for 120 extra.

A man in is right mind would buy the gun and ammo, place it in a safe, and take it out on Christmas eve for a once a year cleaning whether it needed it or not! Since I am not "normal" in the traditional sense of the word, I would buy the gun and ammo, make it about two steps out of my car and attempt a 200 yard mole hill shot in the field behind my house.

My question to those who might know: Can I get brass? Can I get J-words? Can I get reloading dies? Can I get a mould for a reasonable price? Can I get reloading data? Can I swage .275 H and H brass?

Any and all information is appreciated. I already think I will try to purchase this gun even if regular shooting is not possible. However, I would love to shoot it right along with all the other old guns in my safe.

[ajjohns]

Mine is from about the same circumstance. But I have never shot mine yet and it's been 10 years! I think you can get about all that is needed to load for it but at a price. My gunsmith friend also has his grandfather's, so he said if I get some brass and j-words he'd borrow me his dies. Not so sure about the 275 H&H brass, but I think Buffalo Arms or someone like that has the proper brass and the .287 dia pills. The Ross Rifle site has some good info all around on this caliber too. Might wanna check it out. Does yours still have the pop up peep sight? Model 1910? Mine has the peep and my buddy's doesn't. He was quite jealous!

[birch]

Mine still has the pop up little peep. Even that is a terrific design. It also has a folding leaf on the barrel. As far as I can tell by reading on the Ross Rifle site, it is original and quite collectible.

[ajjohns]

Ya, quite a leaf. 0-500 yds! Laser trajectory for that day n age. Also, Ross Seyfried did an article awhile back in either Handloader or Rifle magazine on them. It was real informative in a nutshell as to what you're up against if you ever want to go and shoot one.

[john hayslip]

I'd look at CH-4D first for dies as they seem to be a little more reasonable that the others on a unusual case such as this. In my opinion you can probably get by with just a set of reloading dies and use the sizing die to form your case. Manual of Cartridge conversions says it is a 287 bullet but I'd guess , or at least try, 7mms before going hog wild and buying one off bullets, if you can find them.

The case length is given as 2.58 inches. I never did this conversion myself but had a friend that had one and he's suggested to me that I should do some for him but he never should put up cash to do it. As I remember looking at it it is a standard 300 H&H base but longer. I think that the Remington 8mm magnum case is the brass of choice for conversion as I think the other magnums are a little shorter and you need the 8mm's length.

I concluded that all you'd need to do was lubricate the case well and run the 8mm case into the sizing die and trim to length. John Barsness recently did an article on conversions and recommended annealing before and after the sizing step - his expertise is hard to argue with but I've never done it that way.

PM me with a snail mail address if you want a copy of the page I'm looking at. I'm to old to know how to do attachments and too old to want to learn how.

[john hayslip]

Went back and reread posts. I have all Handloader and Rifle issues and an index that would probably cover the time Ross Seyfried was writing for them. I don't remember such an article but I suppose if asked I'd look and see if I can find it. Another possible source of ammunition would be Bob Haley - you can usually find his address in Shotgun Newsl

[ajjohns]

The Ross rim dia is .556 and a non belted case. H&H family rim dia is .532 and belted. 300 H&H magnum case is 2.850" in length. Just so you have it handy.

[birch]

Thanks a bunch for the fine info everyone. As usual, my hat is off to you.

I have to pick up my pot on friday, so I will let everyone know if I decided to buy it or not. I keep going back and forth with this gun. I know it is a beautiful gun, but it seems that most who own these rifles in pristine condition don't really shoot them. I also have found many first hand accounts of people never really getting over the fear of pulling the trigger. Even though the barrel says it was proof tested to 26 tons (69,000 chamber pressure), I would really be bummed out if I couldnt shoot it with pride and confidance. Whatever I decide, they are a truly unique and beautiful piece of engineering.

[mongoosesnipe]

before hand loading for it you will want to slug the bore i believe the Ross used a 288 bore as opposed to a 284 but slugging is the best way to find out you can use 300 win mag brass to form the cases but you will need to turn the belt off the case then size and fire form, you can also form the brass from 375 ruger which wont require turning the belt off the case i would buy it but hold off on shooting the original ammo as it is decently valuable, you could probably sell the original ammo case by case for enough to get your self set up to load

[ajjohns]

Well, I can tell you both my gunsmith friend and Ross S. had the thought going through there mind of pulling the trigger too. You say 26 tons, I thought it was 28 - but no matter - one thing that Ross pointed out is that it is in long tons, not standard tons. I think if your one to be is in this good a condition it's up to you on pulling the trigger. I think one day I will. Have no idea if I'd ever make it a regular in the woods, or do extensive load development, but I'd have to try it. Remember also that that bolt can only go in one way and one way only. Kind of like the M95 Steyr. I've shot that rifle a bit with no worries. No matter what your bore is gonna be for the "bigger' 7mm dia, but as stated above it's best to slug or cast your chamber to best match what case can be used in your ammo building experiment. For the price you're talking, that one would be pretty hard to pass up. I paid that 12 years ago and really don't regret it. Even if I haven't shot it............yet.

[nekshot]

boy I got alot to learn from you guys, a gun like that and being able to afford it I would buy and ask questions later! That sounds like a fun gun to own and shoot.

[shredder]

I have read the articles describerd here and seen many a Ross rifle. Shoot it! Get to know all the ins and outs of the action but by all means lose the fear. The ross is very well made and runs sooo smooth it would be a darn shame to leave it unshot because some fool misassembled the bolt. You really have to put in a lot of effort to screw that up. Go for it and you will not be bored for a long time.

[john hayslip]

Mea culpa. It has been 15or 16 years since I thought about the Ross. You would also have to turn off the belt and cut an extractor groove

[10x]

The 1910 Ross is an excellent rifle.
It is a straight pull action and they are very well built.

The issue with the bolt is that if a person takes the bolt apart, then does not assemble it correctly then installs it in the gun the bolt head will not rotate into the locking lugs and the gun is ready to fire with an unlocked bolt. If the bolt is assembled correctly you can watch the bolt head rotate and lock the action.
These are a tremendously strong action and the 280 Ross rifle could come very close to modern 7mm Rem mag velocities many years before the 7 mm Rem mag was thought of. It was a very expensive rifle to build and that coupled with the horror stories of it jamming in the mud of WWI killed its sales.

I have had at least 3 1910 Ross (303) rifles. All have been very accurate and all are safe to shoot.
Many of the warehoused Ross Rifles were shipped to the U.S.S.R. where the Russians simply rechambered them for the 7.62 x 54R. These guns were used by Russians in international target shoots for years - the Russians usually won...


http://www.forgottenweapons.com/myth-and-reality-of-the-ross-mkiii/

[BruceB]

I once visited an exhibit in Calgary, Alberta, put on by Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, a famous and still active-service regiment of the Canadian Army. One battalion of the PPCLI is stationed in Calgary.

In the exhibit, they had a lovely Ross rifle..... identified on the placard as a Lee Enfield #1 Mk III!

I buttonholed the Sergeant-Major then in charge and informed him that the rifle was incorrectly labeled. He didn't believe me until I told him to look at the rifle's chamber area, where it was plainly stamped, "Ross Rifle Company". He still didn't care. "Institutional memory" is a short-lived phenomenon, I reckon.

[10x]

I once visited an exhibit in Calgary, Alberta, put on by Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, a famous and still active-service regiment of the Canadian Army. One battalion of the PPCLI is stationed in Calgary.

In the exhibit, they had a lovely Ross rifle..... identified on the placard as a Lee Enfield #1 Mk III!

I buttonholed the Sergeant-Major then in charge and informed him that the rifle was incorrectly labeled. He didn't believe me until I told him to look at the rifle's chamber area, where it was plainly stamped, "Ross Rifle Company". He still didn't care. "Institutional memory" is a short-lived phenomenon, I reckon.

The Glenbow in Calgary had an 1851 colt revolver mislabeled as a 1860 colt some years back. The curator told me in no uncertain terms that I was wrong and the label was right. While visiting the Citadel military museum in Halifax I discovered that the labels for a number of guns including the Ross Mk III had been shuffled so the labels did not match the guns. The caretakers put on cotton gloves opened the cases and set the labels right.

My 1910 Ross in 303 is one of my favorite cast boolit rifles. It has given me good accuracy with every cast boolit I have put through it. And It has been used to take a number of deer with cast boolits as well. The lyman 311299 is an excellent choice for this gun.

[birch]

Since I will be making up my mind tomorrow, does anyone know if 700 for this rifle is a good price. I feel that it is in at least 95-98 percent condition.

[10x]

Since I will be making up my mind tomorrow, does anyone know if 700 for this rifle is a good price. I feel that it is in at least 95-98 percent condition.

In Canada that would be close - in the U.S. I have no idea
If you buy it for $700 you can always sell it later for 700.
Brass will be a bear to find but you can covert brass to 280 Ross
If you do not buy it, you may regret it
If you buy it and regret it, you can always sell it.

300 win mag brass can be converted to 280 Ross apparently.

[ajjohns]

It's a good price. Exchange between US and Canada is so close. If it is as good as you say, it's a good price. If you want it, by all means buy it because you'll either kick yourself, or never find that kind of deal again.