HP-38 vs Winchester 321

[Animal]

Hey guys, what year did these two powders become interchangeable? Or have they always been interchangeable? I have HP-38 and I want to load up .40 s&w with Winchester 231 data from my Lyman 49th edition (2008)... Yes? No? Maybe so? Thanks, just want to be safe.

[Bohica793]

Hodgdon officially licensed the Winchester powders in March 2006 and distributes them under both a Winchester as well as a Hodgdon moniker. According to the information I have found, the powders are actually manufactured by a third company, St Marks, which is a division of General Dynamics.

[starreloader]

Hodgdon officially licensed the Winchester powders in March 2006 and distributes them under both a Winchester as well as a Hodgdon moniker. According to the information I have found, the powders are actually manufactured by a third company, St Marks, which is a division of General Dynamics.

I use to buy HP 38 in large containers when I did commerical loading, in the80's to mid 90's.. HP 38 and W 231 are the same powder... The outside of the container would have Hodgdon marked on it and inside the container was the Winchester lot number, batch number and date produced by St. Marks

[Animal]

Ahh very cool. This will make things rather simple. Thanks!

[flintlock62]

If you look at the load charts, HP-38 and W231 have exactly the same charge weight, velocity, and CUP. Yes, they are the same powder under different labels.


Hey guys, what year did these two powders become interchangeable? Or have they always been interchangeable? I have HP-38 and I want to load up .40 s&w with Winchester 231 data from my Lyman 49th edition (2008)... Yes? No? Maybe so? Thanks, just want to be safe.

[Animal]

Flintlock62, I noticed that in one of the manuals yesterday. Some manuals don't have both powders listed and might only have data for HP38 or W231. I thought it would be worth a thread... just to set my mind to ease :popcorn:

[Char-Gar]

I don't think they "became" the same powder. They always were the same powder just packaged and sold under different brands. Lot of companies sell powders they do not make.

[jaysouth]

From available literature and loading experience, it appears to me that 231, HP-38 and Ramshot Zip are indeed the same powder with different wrappers.

However, it is interesting to note that several powder burn charts have them separated by one or two other powders. For example:

http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html

http://www.reloadersnest.com/burnrates.asp

[Animal]

From available literature and loading experience, it appears to me that 231, HP-38 and Ramshot Zip are indeed the same powder with different wrappers.

However, it is interesting to note that several powder burn charts have them separated by one or two other powders. For example:

http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html

http://www.reloadersnest.com/burnrates.asp

I have noticed that but forgot to mention it. It makes sense to me that identical powders should share a burn rate number. The way some charts show their assigned numbers leads me to think that one is some measurable amount faster than the other.

[felix]

Lot numbers are required to be exact for an accurate collated order. All others are approximations, i.e., in the neighborhood. Years ago they were made in different plants, one in Scotland, and the other one here. Now they are both the same powder, but NOT necessarily from the same lot. ... felix

[Animal]

Good point Felix. I've been rereading reloading manuals I have and my Lyman 49th ed. seems to greatly stress the importance of lot numbers during load development. I haven't been so diligent to record lot numbers, but this is a good reminder that slight differences between lots can make extreme difference in results.

[jaysouth]

Lot numbers are required to be exact for an accurate collated order. All others are approximations, i.e., in the neighborhood. Years ago they were made in different plants, one in Scotland, and the other one here. Now they are both the same powder, but NOT necessarily from the same lot. ... felix

Back in the day when I started reloading pistol cartridges, the conventional wisdom was that 231 never varied from lot to lot. A lot of shooters started using 231 because of this belief.

My take it that at a charge of 5 grains(my load for .38 jacketed, 9mm ball and .45 SWC) of powder, lot to lot variations are not noticeable or can be explained away by environmental factors such as temperature, altitude or humidity.

My go to powder for .45 swc is now Clays.

[olafhardt]

I notice that when I eat a can of mixed nuts there is a difference in composition from bite to bite. The filberts seem to like the bottom. I once heard of some research done on this by the cereal industry. So powder composition may vary from the top of the jug to the bottom much less batch to batch. Because of this you should increase your homeowners insurance and quit eating chiterlings.

[osteodoc08]

That brings up a good point. If buying several pounds of the same powder in 1 pound canisters, ALWAYS get the same lot # for consistency.

Animal: H110 and W296 also same same.

[rondog]

Lot of companies sell powders they do not make.

I'd wager that applies to MOST powder companies. As well as ammunition too. No telling who REALLY makes it. Kinda like Sears and their Craftsman tools.

[390ish]

231 rocks. hp-38 is the outlet store version. all I buy is hp-38 for my 38 and 45 acp.