For those who have served so that the world may be a better place:

[blackthorn]

There have been several threads over time that deplore the loss of the information that can come from other’s life experiences. Many posters have stated the reluctance (or outright refusal) of our Veterans to share their combat/war experiences. If you are one of these veterans, please consider taking the time to sit down and record your experiences either on paper or electronically. If those experiences are something that is painful to talk to others about, recording them so that future generations will come to know the pain, suffering and hardship you and your generation endured so that later generations may remain free! Those memoirs can be left behind so that your children, grandchildren etc. etc. will understand the sacrifices made so they can remain free. There may also be some good times to recall as well.

I was born in 1939 and I have never been in the military, with the exception of a brief time in Army cadets when I was in high school, so I have no concept of what my Dad (1st WW) or my Uncle (2nd WW) went through. Neither of them talked about the war. My thought when writing the above was that even if memories are hard/impossible to talk openly about, perhaps veterans would at least be able to record those things to be opened after they pass on. I know I would be so very interested in what happened to my Dad and Uncle during those terrible times.

[Uncle Jim]

most non-combat veteran people do not understand the mindset a combat veteran has to be in to survive in combat which is why most combat veterans remain silent about their experience. I am a Desert Storm Veteran myself and on the rare occasions I have opened up I was not believed by the people that I opened up to unless they were combat veterans themselves. Even the veterans that did not serve in combat did not believe what I was saying, even though it was God honest truth.

uncle Jim

[dbosman]

All my of age cousins were in Viet Nam. I'm younger. President Nixon gave me a present for my nineteenth birthday.
Marines, Air Force, Army.
Three in combat, one truck driver. Only the one who was a truck driver has talked about his adventures. One tale that was hilarious to the troops, and amusing in 1970 (no one was hurt) would probably be considered a minor war crime if related today. You had to have been there or some where similar.

[snuffy]

Some of them are under orders of secrecy for a minimum of 7 years, to not talk about what they did. Some are to NEVER talk about it!

Those that had bad experiences, talking about it might make them flash back to it. They say it's better to bring it out into the light, but that's not a good idea in some cases.

My son was in Iraq, then Afghanistan. He talks freely about it, but I know he's hiding some things from even me. That's fine with me, maybe I shouldn't ever know.

There's a lot of guilt in some of those vets life. Guilt about what they did, guilt about even being a survivor. If they're Christians, they're forgiven, if there was declared war, and they were under orders to do what they did.

I served during the Vietnam era. I had orders to go "over there", but they were cancelled a couple days before I began out processing. Seems the place I was going got blown up by the Vietcong, wiped it off the map! A remote radar site on a hill, used for an early warning system so the north's planes couldn't sneak up on us, and for directing our planes as they went north. I was lucky, by the time it was re-built, I had less than a year left. No overseas deployment with less than a year left, so I was asked to re-enlist, FAT CHANCE!

[woody13]

What Uncle Jim says is true. I served three tours to Iraq and no one fully feels what life was there nor would they understand when you tell them. I have learned they are eager to ask why and in the time of war and combat you cannot stop and ask why. Its better left unsaid and there is a quote that is very true. "In war many came home but only some really came home." This is just my thoughts and I feel the wounds I have are mine but I am proud I served and love my country I can tell you that. From what I have seen I choose not to take that freedom for granted one bit ever.

[Uncle Jim]

Woody13, WELCOME HOME!

[unclogum bill]

My father was such A WWll vet and when cancer closed in I went to visit him . I knew the war had messed him up , post tramadic stress, but back then you sucked it up by yourself. He never talked of his army life.
On his death bed he said this ," I was in the landing on Normandy, Assigned to hit the shore in a landing craft. As we approached I could see we weren't going to make it. See I always had good eyes and was trained to be an aircraft spotter because of it. I could see that other craft were destroyed ahead and men from them, were sinking because of the water depth and heavy packs . I cut my pack straps and boot laces in the craft, so I could swim ashore. Anyway a shell hit the front I got dumped over the side. Not sure how but made shore , shoe less and with no pack or rifle, Guys dropping everywhere. Took off running and stopped cause I cut my foot. Felt a bullet wizz by my ear Germans had a fox hole and before he could hit me I picked up a rifle from a dead guy and shot him dead. Another head popped up this guy with a lugar and I shot him as well. Turned out they had a radio and were directing the shells to hit our craft. I dropped in the hole and smashed the radio, fixed my foot with canteen and Germans tee shirt. Officer had big feet so I borrowed his boots. As I was getting ready to leave I see two more coming to the hole. When they lined up I shot both with one shot.....
Later he joined up with another company and before the day was out was field promoted to corporal , "Why me" he asked the sarge, You must be doing something right , your still alive", was the reply.
Anyway hes buried along with a lot of other good men it Calvin ton National Cemetery in Long Island NY. One of the last things he said on the matter is he wondered whether he would see any of the men he's killed where he was going.
My day was one of 9 children and all 7 boys served. When he was a kid his job was to take the Stevens? single shot .22 and add to the pot. I suspect that training aided him greatly that day. He never fired a gun after the war and the color red sent him to a dark place. Always, I mean always attended mass on Sunday. I think that was part of a bargain he made if God saw him through it.

[woody13]

Uncle Jim. Thank You!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

My father was such A WWll vet....
Sounds like an incredible man, thanks for sharing.
Jon

[Hardcast416taylor]

My brother served in an light tank (M3 Stuart) scout company as a tank crew commander (Sgt.) that landed on D +14 in Normandy. I learned from others that served with him that they went across France and finally into Germany besides a small detour into a small Burg named Bastogne with Pattons 3rd Armored relief column. My brother had 3 known times his tank was shot out from under him and he managed to get out. He lost another tank when crews were rotated due to few tanks and more crews. He only talked about the funny things that happened or about when he was in England waiting for the invasion to begin, but never the times from landing till he was on the "big boat home". To want to make a vet talk about a horrible ordeal that they went thru or worse put down on paper from memory is a sadistic thing try to do to someone that would rather just try to forget what they witnessed or went thru in a war.Robert

[CPL Lou]

I'm not ready, as of yet.
Some things are better left unsaid.
Sorry.

CPL Lou

[sundog]

My wife's cousin did a 'memory dump' on his brother and me years ago. Leslie made the landing at Iwo Jimo. Only a few from his Marine company survived. Leslie talked solid for about two hours as Paul and I sat and listened..., in awe. Paul told me later that as far as he knew that Leslie had never told anyone. I got the feeling afterward that it was for Paul and me only. He wanted us to know, but not others. It was like he had to tell someone, but not just anyone. I respect that. Les has since passed on, an American Hero.

[TheCelt]

When my wife asks me how I'm doing I never tell her the truth. She does not really want to hear the truth. When I got back from SE Asia in '73 I was treated like **** by every civilian I met except my family and they didn't want to talk about it, that hurt pretty bad. I was AF and as such wasn't a front line shooter but we saw our fair share of ****. Folks didn't want to hear about it then and I don't feel like talking about it now. Most of the folks that understand are gone now anyways.

[Love Life]

Maybe one day.

The sad part is that the things you do are surreal. They are so out of this world and counter to anything your were taught prior. It takes years to figure it all out yourself.

You can't explain them. People don't understand. They nod their heads and mumble things like "Oh my God. That's terrible.", but they don't understand. Nor should they. All they need to understand is that men stood up when they were required to, and did things that were required of them.

There is a reason combat vets don't ask combat vets about the things they have seen or done.

Now, if you meet some random person in a bar who regals you with their wild tales of wonton killing and destruction, then there is a 99% chance they are spitting BS. Either that or they are a psyco/sociopath.

I hope my wife, daughter, and future child never hear of what it is like in war or what I have done and seen. All they need to know is that I went.

[TheCelt]

Maybe one day.

The sad part is that the things you do are surreal. They are so out of this world and counter to anything your were taught prior. It takes years to figure it all out yourself.

You can't explain them. People don't understand. They nod their heads and mumble things like "Oh my God. That's terrible.", but they don't understand. Nor should they. All they need to understand is that men stood up when they were required to, and did things that were required of them.

There is a reason combat vets don't ask combat vets about the things they have seen or done.

Now, if you meet some random person in a bar who regals you with their wild tales of wonton killing and destruction, then there is a 99% chance they are spitting BS. Either that or they are a psyco/sociopath.

I hope my wife, daughter, and future child never hear of what it is like in war or what I have done and seen. All they need to know is that I went.

Dang Dick, that was really well said.........

[Sensai]

CPL Lou, you got that right. I served in Vietnam through Desert Storm. I was a Medevac pilot in Vietnam. Had enough of the unarmed target stuff and got a gun transition. Served as an attack helicopter pilot/ maintenance officer / test pilot the rest of the time. Front line combat in Vietnam, Desert Storm and some other confrontations. Some things I'll talk about, but a lot of things are best left unsaid. I don't want to write about them, talk about them or even think about them.

[scarry scarney]

Snuffy

Where you EW? Going over for Igloo White?

On another note, daughter and I went to a NRA shotgun instuctor class this weekend, and on the drive home, I talked about some of my time while on active duty. She remembered me always being gone "TDY" but she didnt know what it meant, or where I was. She just new I retired from the military, and what my last job in the military was.

Yes, she is now an NRA shotgun instructor. She already had her Pistol Instructor and Chief Range Safety Officer rating. We have to pass our sport onto the next generation, or it wont last.

[Carolina Cast Bullets]

I have often wondered the same thing, why do Veterans of Combat seem very reluctant to speak of their experiences.
These Gentlemen in this thread have it nailed. Many things are better left unsaid or spoken of by "those who were there". I
personally do not intend to ever ask that of any of them.

[snuffy]

Snuffy

Where you EW? Going over for Igloo White?

Dunno what that is. I was in Air Force civil engineering, power production. It would have been my job to run/maintain the EMU generator that provided power to the entire radar site. What do you think the primary target is when the gooks wanted to shut down the site? Right, knock out the power! Us guys had a life expectancy of 2 days on average.

[Echo]

My own adventures in 20 years of USAF were pretty mundane. The only thing I had to worry about in SE Asia (I was in Thailand) was getting drunk and falling in a Klong, and I never did those two things together. Very little of interest to anyone...

[aspangler]

Some stuff is just too rough on me to talk about. Saw my share, did my duty, would like to forget.
My brother bought the farm in the NAM on May 22,1966. Mortar airburst. hit in back of head. Mercifully, was unconscious for the time (8 hours ) that it took him to die. Still brings back tears.

[starreloader]

For many of us it best to let the past be where it is... Most of us try to not want to talk about the "GHOSTS" of the past..

[Skirmisher]

My Father In Law an Army WWII vet in the Quarter Master Corps never said a word about his service even after we were in the USAR together. I figured he was a truck driver, cook or supply type. Many years after my two tours in RVN he told me he was assigned to graves registration on the invasion of Normandy. I can't imagine a worse duty. No one thinks about what it took to pull bodies out of the surf and off of the beaches 3-5 days afterwards. He went through the rest of the war doing the same thing.

Never berate a non-combat type until you know their story. I once had an admin clerk assigned to me because he caused a lot of trouble in the rear. He turned out to be one of the best soldiers I had, after a little coaxing.

[woody13]

Love Life said it very well. Thank You for that.....

[Love Life]

My Father In Law an Army WWII vet in the Quarter Master Corps never said a word about his service even after we were in the USAR together. I figured he was a truck driver, cook or supply type. Many years after my two tours in RVN he told me he was assigned to graves registration on the invasion of Normandy. I can't imagine a worse duty. No one thinks about what it took to pull bodies out of the surf and off of the beaches 3-5 days afterwards. He went through the rest of the war doing the same thing.

Never berate a non-combat type until you know their story. I once had an admin clerk assigned to me because he caused a lot of trouble in the rear. He turned out to be one of the best soldiers I had, after a little coaxing.

I have always felt sorry for Graves Registration. I'd rather get punched in the face by a silverback gorilla than work for graves registration.

[Zymurgy50]

My step-dad spent time during the Korean conflict laying n his stomach refueling aircraft over the Pacific, Alaska to Hawaii every other day.
I dont know exactly what my grandpa did in WW2, Bit I do know that he was paid $54.50 a month to go island hopping in the pacific theater...

[Dragoon 45]

I learned my lessons the hard way in college back in the early 80's when I just made a very general remark about seeing bodies in combat and later when I came home from the Rock Pile in 2004. I was called a callous killer without any form of conscience what so ever in a college classroom and only the professor, a WW II vet, said anything in my defense. I will never make that mistake again. I will only talk about my experiences with the people who shared them with me.

Later I had different yet more troubling experiences when I returned from Afghanistan in 2004, nobody cared what happened over there. They just wanted to thank me for my service in a very condescending way. I have grown to hate that phrase "Thank you for your service", as it is very rarely sincerely expressed.

My experiences are that no one believes what you have to tell them, as what you went through does not jive with what Hollywood puts into the movies and on TV or what the MSM tells them to believe. If no one will believe you, why waste the time trying? After all in most peoples eyes if you are a combat vet you are damaged goods and are a ticking time bomb liable to explode at any second.

[rick173]

Amen Brother.
I learned my lessons the hard way in college back in the early 80's when I just made a very general remark about seeing bodies in combat and later when I came home from the Rock Pile in 2004. I was called a callous killer without any form of conscience what so ever in a college classroom and only the professor, a WW II vet, said anything in my defense. I will never make that mistake again. I will only talk about my experiences with the people who shared them with me.

Later I had different yet more troubling experiences when I returned from Afghanistan in 2004, nobody cared what happened over there. They just wanted to thank me for my service in a very condescending way. I have grown to hate that phrase "Thank you for your service", as it is very rarely sincerely expressed.

My experiences are that no one believes what you have to tell them, as what you went through does not jive with what Hollywood puts into the movies and on TV or what the MSM tells them to believe. If no one will believe you, why waste the time trying? After all in most peoples eyes if you are a combat vet you are damaged goods and are a ticking time bomb liable to explode at any second.

[Adam10mm]

My grandfather fought in WWI and WWII. Born in Jan 1895, died in May 1994 just 7 months shy of his 100yr goal. Rainbow Park in Oshkosh, WI is in remembrance of his outfit in those wars, the Army National Guard 42nd Rainbow Division. My father recorded tens of hours of his war experiences on cassette tape.

My younger half brother served 3 combat tours in Iraq and 3 combat tours in Afghanistan with the US Army 504th, currently in Ft Hood. He is scheduled to ETS out in November this year. He wanted to be career Army, but got burned out with combat. He told us "Killing isn't supposed to be casual. The point you are bored with killing other human beings is the point in time where you need to get out and get help. I'm at that point now."

[popper]

Killing isn't supposed to be casual
Correct - but sometimes necessary. When you are in combat or a first responder, death & blood & guts are not pretty. Most people never experience it first hand. There was a lot of anguish and anger when Civil War public actually saw a war.

"Thank you for your service", as it is very rarely sincerely expressed.
Possibly, but remember, they don't know what it is like and don't know how to respond.

nobody cared what happened over there
Really P**** me off when I see that. I've heard a lot of that by basically self centered people.

[Adam10mm]

I think my brother meant it to mean when you kill and don't realize that you have killed someone. There is a job of a professional soldier that must objectify such things. To realize that you are killing and not merely pouring a cup of coffee.

[DxieLandMan]

I have actually recorded some of my experiences on CD too and kept a journal of my experiences in Afghanistan. Some things still trouble me and some I have no trouble talking about. Certain dates I will never forget and those are troubling a little. I still keep up with some of the men that I served with. It does not matter where or when you served but that you served.

[Love Life]

Later I had different yet more troubling experiences when I returned from Afghanistan in 2004, nobody cared what happened over there. They just wanted to thank me for my service in a very condescending way. I have grown to hate that phrase "Thank you for your service", as it is very rarely sincerely expressed.



Really? I have never felt that the people who take the time out of their day to thank you for the service your VOLUNTEERED for and THEY PAY you to do are being condescending or insincere. What a slap to the face of those who took the time out of their lives to thank you for something you VOLUNTEERED to do and THEY PAY you to do.

I have always felt that I haven't earned their thanks.

I volunteered to do it, and they pay me to do it. Imagine if I was a fry cook and somebody thanked me for salting their fries. I feel the same way. It is my job. I volunteered for it.

So, for anybody who has taken time out of their lives to thank people for doing what they volunteered to do and what you pay them to do, thank you. It makes alot of people feel awkward, and they'll probably Ho'hum and shuffle their feet, but it is appreciated. Very much appreciated.

[popper]

10MM - I know what was meant, just didn't change the words when I quoted. I think I posted a link to an interview by a Marine who was at Chosin, Korea. His remarks were very much like combatants typically say, when they say anything. I was on a trip to Seattle, sitting in front of a fellow returning. He tried to show his pics of 'kills' to anyone who would look. He needs help. I don't think he 'enjoyed' killing, just didn't know how to handle it. Thus is the problem - how do you handle taking a life, when it is a 'necessity'?

[Alvarez Kelly]

...It makes alot of people feel awkward, and they'll probably Ho'hum and shuffle their feet, but it is appreciated.

That's the way I feel when someone says it to me... I instantly think of those who gave so much more. Still, I appreciate them acknowledging the hardships that military service, on THEIR behalf, entails. At least, that's the way I take it.

[w5pv]

I was in the Army, never saw any combat, and want to thank all of the veterans that did put their safety and lives in harms way.My son is a Desert Storm Veteran and the closet he has every come to talking about any of his experience was at one time out of the blue he told me that the tanks they killed also had people in them,He used to be an avid hunter but after desert storm he has quit all hunting/shooting sports.I had 2 uncles and 5 1st cousins in WW2.They all had an angel on their shoulders because they came through it all unscathed.The only stories the had to tell was of something funny that happened to them or one of their friends.The reason I had so many 1st cousins in the service was my mother was the youngest girl of 15 kids she had several nephews and nieces that were older than she.

[unclogum bill]

"I have often wondered the same thing, why do Veterans of Combat seem very reluctant to speak of their experiences.
This Gentlemen in this thread it nailed. Many things are better left unsaid or spoken of by "those who were there".
That does nail it, In trying to get a better grasp of my father who had it rough in WWll , I spoke with my uncle Jim . Jim was with the 101 airborne , dropped behind in the battle of the bulge to cause mischief . He told me of running away after blowing a fuel pile , looking at his friend Hank running along side him. Next second a shell took off Hanks head and Hank was still running. He also said they traveled light , took no prisoners ,took what they needed, left no one alive that could talk the" how many" and "where" stuff. You don't want to think to hard into that statement. l may not have thanked him , but they did what they did for us and I back what needed done.

[jaysouth]

when I came back from my first tour in VN, my father and I exchanged war stories about his experience as a paratrooper in WWII and my experience in VN. They were guarded exchanges that stopped whenever any one else came within earshot. Then when my brother got killed while he was on his first tour and I on my second, my father never mentioned any of his experience again, nor did he ever ask me about any of my other experiences. I tried to get him to go to Normany with me on a D-Day celebration but he said he had seen enough of France.

Fast forward, several years, my son in law who is a career officer in the army has spent 6 years of the last 12 in the sandbox in SW Asia. He has been wounded three times and expects one more more tour before he retires. When we are together, we have a couple of drinks and swap stories. His stories are about how idiotic the army has become(sound familiar?) and my stories about how I could always beat the system and how much I made in the black market. No blood and guts. He did tell me a story about being called out to an Iraqi unit just before thanksgiving dinner in his compound. They had two bloody hands that survived a suicide boming and wanted them fingerprinted. He kinda lost his appetite for Thanksgiving dinner.

[mroliver77]

My Dad was Navy in WW2 and USAF Air-Sea rescue medic in Korea. When he had too much to drink he would dump some of what he experienced and what he felt.
I remember him telling me about a nasty plane crash that basically was a rake and bag cleanup. Lots of burnt stuff. Dad said he got back to base and they had fried chicken for chow. He couldn't eat fried chicken for years and burnt meat got to him. He never got any of the stuff to pin on that was not mandatory. He told me that the "Heros" were up front and he and the others were there so those guys could do the big job.

[felix]

LL, I don't know if thanks is appreciated or not. Depends upon the receiving person's attitude at the time. Case in point was my next door neighbor in Houston. I thanked him in a gentle way because his wife told mine that he served in NAM as a 'copter door gunner, re-upping 3 times. He loved his job and seldom came home. Come to find out, over a year's time, he cannot count the number of folks he disposed of. Entire villages, everyone. I met him when he was taking out a very large black willow tree by hand. Ax and shovel only. No help allowed. No power equipment allowed. It took him about all year to "dispose" of that tree, every leaf of it including all roots which crept over time into the yards surrounding his. He got permission to go ahead because by then we all knew he was doing "penance". He became Catholic as his wife and children. Never missed a holy day at church since beginning the tree affair. So, I tread lightly when talking to veterans, usually starting with their gun and ammo hoping for common ground. ... felix

[Honorstick]

I come from a family of vets. My father and an unle in WWII, an uncle in Korea, older brother and brother in law in Vietnam, myself a peace time Marine and my younger brother a retired Marine with 3 deployments to Iraq and a lot of what has been said about not sharing holds true even in a family of vets it's normally more of a passing comment and nods of understanding. Appreciation of service is always welcome but the stories will most likely be buried with a lot of the vets. That's just the way it is.

[slim1836]

I will never ask, but will listen if told, I thank each and every one of you who served.

God bless you and the United States of America,

Slim

[montana_charlie]

Here's a 'war story' I don't mind telling ... and I'm telling you from the start that I am not in any way trying to disparage President Richard Nixon. He did what he had to do, just like all of us did what we had to do. But, things can sometimes be very ironic ...

I was on Nui Ba Den mountain where there were ten of us (five Army and five Air Force) as the full complement of a communications site in Military Region III near the southern terminus of the Ho Chi Minh trail.
In the 'Big Hooch' there were a couple of tables and a collection of chairs, and that was sort of our 'day room' if we felt like gathering for any reason.
We had a TV which was wired up to the RPG screen on the outside wall. That 'antenna' allowed us to pick AFN in Saigon ... 65 miles to the southeast.

One afternoon in August of '72 all of us who weren't actually working radios were in the 'day room', and we had three things on our minds.

1. The slopes of Nui Ba Den were heavily populated by bad guys ... all of the time. The artillery unit down at Tay Ninh would fire randomly onto the slopes in an attempt to 'disrupt' movements and operations that might be in progress. It was called harassment and interdiction fire ... or H&I.

The first thing on our minds was the fact that, due to an ammunition shortage, Tay Ninh would not be dropping H&I rounds on us that night, so Charlie could unfasten his seatbelt and move about feely.

2. All of our power was supplied by three big diesel generators. One was running, one on standby, and the third was (usually) in some kind of maintenance condition. There was a seven-foot high revetment around the three generators with interior 'walls' that made three separate 'rooms'. if one generator got damaged or destroyed, it was isolated from the others.
This particular revetment was new, having been recently built by a group of local laborers who had been choppered up for several days in a row to complete that project and some other construction that was needed.

The second thing on our minds was the fact that the outer wall of this new revetment had collapsed outward ... exposing all three generators to view from the perimeter.

3. We were gathered in the 'day room' on that late August afternoon to clean all of our weapons, fill all of our magazines, check and replenish other things needed in our outside fighting positions like sacks full of grenades, bandoliers of M-79 rounds, and the 'clickers' required to fire claymore mines positioned out ahead of us.

We were engaged in this 'full court press' to make sure everything was ready because the third thing on our minds that day was a fresh intel report that estimated we had a "better than 80% chance" of being hit that night.

Considering the other two 'shortcomings' in our defense mechanism, we figured the probability was a good deal higher than the estimate.

So, we are cleaning guns, and counting grenades while the humor got a little bizarre. About that time Nixon came on the TV screen to make a speech, so we all shut up.

I can't remember the whole thing, and it doesn't really matter anymore. But the part that hit home to us (the guys doing their best to increase their odds of seeing the sun rise) was when our President said ...

"It gives me great pleasure to be able to inform you that, as of now, the United States no longer has any ground combat forces serving in the Republic of South Vietnam."

[MT Gianni]

I enjoyed that Charlie. I had a BIL that was part of a "Small Token Force" in four conflicts. i know his unit had over 300 people in it.

[Love Life]

Below is a story I don't mind telling:

There we were, larger than life. It was a cold, early, November morning sitting on a roof top in a far away place waiting for people to do bad things.

I was sitting there with my fire team, quietly hating life and wishing I was where I was when I wished I was there. We were tired, cold, and annoyed. 4 houses down, and on another rooftop, was 1st fire team.

We had been on the rooftops for hours. Boring, cold, long hours. Suddenly we hear the radio key. Over the company net comes a loud, long, fart. It sounded like a sheet of paper ripping for about 7 seconds. It was so loud that my saw gunner heard it come over the handset about 10 ft away.

You should have seen us on that rooftop, trying our hardest to be silent, and giggling like little school girls. What makes it funnier is after the fart was done we had about 5 seconds of silence. Then the company commander got on the horn and went absolutely bat poo crazy.

Later on in the day when we retrograded the story came out. My best friend in 1st fire team had gotten bored and cut a fart into the radio. He had forgotten we were on company net and not squad net. That will stick with me until the day I die.


---Now stories like that I can tell all day. Those moments of sunshine that make you giggle whenever they come to mind.

[SeabeeMan]

I don't mind sharing some of it, but there are things I try not to think about, never mind record. My wife probably has some ideas but doesn't push and it scares me to think of my daughter (now 2) knowing some of those things about me. I'm proud of my service and it made me the man I am but I don't want to relive it.

[Dragoon 45]

I am glad your experiences are more positive but there is a huge difference between your experiences and mine. I had over 31 years total service when I retired in Dec 2004. I see little difference in how servicemembers were treated in 1973 vice how they are treated now. Oh, people are a little more polite about it today, but they look down their noses at servicemembers and veterans as much today as they did in 1973. And to give a little indication of things to come, wait till you have to deal with the VA, you will quickly learn to cringe every time you hear that "Thank You for Your Service" as you are about to be screwed over big time by the VA. Or even better when you are applying for a civilian job and you hear that phrase when you are told you didn't get the job, because they hired someone less qualified than you because they were not a veteran.


Really? I have never felt that the people who take the time out of their day to thank you for the service your VOLUNTEERED for and THEY PAY you to do are being condescending or insincere. What a slap to the face of those who took the time out of their lives to thank you for something you VOLUNTEERED to do and THEY PAY you to do.

I have always felt that I haven't earned their thanks.

I volunteered to do it, and they pay me to do it. Imagine if I was a fry cook and somebody thanked me for salting their fries. I feel the same way. It is my job. I volunteered for it.

So, for anybody who has taken time out of their lives to thank people for doing what they volunteered to do and what you pay them to do, thank you. It makes alot of people feel awkward, and they'll probably Ho'hum and shuffle their feet, but it is appreciated. Very much appreciated.

[snuffy]

I am glad your experiences are more positive but there is a huge difference between your experiences and mine. I had over 31 years total service when I retired in Dec 2004. I see little difference in how servicemembers were treated in 1973 vice how they are treated now. Oh, people are a little more polite about it today, but they look down their noses at servicemembers and veterans as much today as they did in 1973. And to give a little indication of things to come, wait till you have to deal with the VA, you will quickly learn to cringe every time you hear that "Thank You for Your Service" as you are about to be screwed over big time by the VA. Or even better when you are applying for a civilian job and you hear that phrase when you are told you didn't get the job, because they hired someone less qualified than you because they were not a veteran.

I'm sorry your experience with the VA is so bad. I'm under care with the VA, and I'm very happy with the care I get. On par with the best hospitals in my area. I'm diabetic, have had prostate surgery, care for my heart condition, and many therapies and surgeries relating to the above conditions.

My prescriptions cost only a 10 buck co-pay, otherwise they'd cast me thousands each month. Average cost overall each year is 1 thousand bucks.

If not for the VA, I just couldn't live like I am, I'd be eating Ramon noodles 3X-day.

[ozo]

"back then you sucked it up by yourself"----

I know better than to say a word, but I'm sure it ain't the first time....I did it anyway.

I had a 97 yr old neighbor that was well decorated, never spoke of those times, walked everyday on our simple country street with the little dog his grandaughter gave him, still drove his pickup, even to the hospital for tests where he died 65hrs later, full of cancer. He NEVER walked by my driveway without stopping, looking up the hill and saying something....I saw him too many times.....and I really attempted to walk down as much as possible to visit. He would never come up to the house, and most visits were at his home across the road. Every once in a while, at his home while helping him move something, he would slip.....and ask ME something about war. Even when I would see medals and his dress ribbons in a junk drawer in his basement, ask him , he would look at me straight in the eyes...and tell me he didn't remember. When he 'slipped' and asked me about Nam he would quickly change the subject. He would always be very shy for a couple of days afterwards. I understood him well, as he surely knew me even better.
Sometimes 'it' wants to come out.....to be said....maybe to be honored in some weird way....and then 'it' runs and hides.
I have five sons and a daughter and none of them have a clue what I did in the Corps. My spouse knows more than anyone, is one of three people that has ever seen me cry, and she don't know 10% of me from then. She knows I was a Captain because there is evidence that lives in our home......I led 7.....a demolition team....and the 3 that came home with me shared more BBQ and beer and cigarettes than you can count. Once a year we had a coonass party that would rival mardi-gras. There is only me and Boudreaux left. My spouse listens to me and him talk......a lot. She thinks we talk funny. I can't tell you that he and I have ever mentioned a word to each other about them days. She is jealous of him, I know she is. She knows I love him more than I love her.
[blackthorn]
I don't know if you will ever get your wish....the stories from Nam, and I understand exactly what you mean.....if no reason but to record history for history's sake alone.....but many of us are dead. I don't really know what the rest of us are. I do remember some guys we would see in a camp when we had the pleasure to retreat for clothing and rations that may talk about it all without blinking, they had dried up ears on strings around their necks. Best I know, they never got far away from that camp. But they knew everything that went on[ha], and I liked them......they had the best clothing......in good shape, but stinky. [FYI....we didn't have camo BDU's....we had greens] New clothes could get you killed.
This may sound/seem wacko.....but I feel weird and don't know what to say when people say 'thank you for your service'......
First of all, it's a new thing to me, I've never heard it before 9/11.....and ironically, 9/11 is also my birthday.....just passed as a matter of fact. I get double-whammy's.....happy birthday...thank you for.....my Facebook plugs up, my e-mail plugs up, all the forums [mostly gun] swamp me with good wishes. It's not negative.....and there are still so many good folks still here in my America....and they honestly mean well...from their heart.....but it is overwhelming.
I know I am full of it, I ramble with jibberish, I don't know when to shut up.....one reason my spouse hates to go out in public with me.....so I just will.
It's this simple...I stumbled in here [castboolits], I fell down, and my age would not allow me to get up and leave rapidly.
Please forgive me if I caused any offense, to any, at any level.
God bless all of you....and your loved ones.

[Ramar]

Dad is a WWII. Vet. and at 94 is still going strong. He was taken prisoner at the Battle of the Bulge and stayed in Stallog 9a until the end of the war. He would never talk about it until 15 years ago when his 1st great grand son was born. I told him that there would be more of them to come and they'd loved to know who he was and what he did in the war. He consented to me doing some documenting of his memories and I did so.

He answered most questions and even looked forward to our discussions as some of his memories where returning. I wrote most of it down and even got him to voice record some notes and stories so the family could here it in his own words.

One story I can repeat here, is the time in his stallog when the men in his barracks was confronted with the theft of food from the galley that was broken into the night before. Nobody would confess to it and the entire barracks was marched outside to a clearing in the woods. They were lined up and given one last chance for the guilty one to step forward. No one moved and a truck with a machine gun came by and setup in front of the men. Dad said that the setup and preparation seamed like it took forever. They were given one last chance to speak up. They all stood silent and didn't move for what he said seemed like an eternity. No shots were fired and all returned to the barracks.
Ramar

[blackthorn]

Ozo, and all who have posted to this thread---thank you! The replies seem to be mixed and I certainly understand and respect the feelings of all. I hope that my post did/does not cause anyone discomfort or anger, it was generated by the many posts in many different threads over time that expressed the wishes of some to have known more about the bad parts of friends and family that were lost forever. If my post offended anyone, I sincerely apologize.

[shdwlkr]

Well I am studying to be a mental health counselor and work with are military past, present and future.
I have talked to our combat veterans both male and female and I can tell you they do want to talk about things but not to just anyone. It is an emotional roller coaster for them and it needs to be when they want or need to let it go.

Yes they talk to me and you might ask why if you never were in the military. Nope they have not surprised me yet, see somethings you just had to experience yourself to be accepted into that group.

Nope have no medals nothing to remind me of my time in the military and if you search my military records you will find nothing either. It is all gone by my choice and No I am not sorry I removed it.

You want to know why combat veterans and their direct support personnel don't want to talk about things.

Try this on for size you kill the other side any way you can, bullets, hand grenades, burning, rockets, bombs and then you walk into that area and make sure they are dead. That is a very quick and dirty example but there are more graphic answers if needed. Does it make it easier to talk about such things NO and it never will. You want others to know about that and worse that is done so you can return home to loved ones and your country??

My most remembered time in service was standing at attention and being spit on, having garbage thrown at me and called every nasty name you can think of and could do nothing about it. Yea great thing to remember and talk about isn't it!!

I have talked to vets that will talk to no one about things they endured while in service and yes endured is a more accurate word then served. One guy I talked to related to how he and 3 others were all that made it from D-day to Berlin and yes we talked about losing buddies along the way and how it affected him, until he got so he could not feel pain, emotion or for the most part anything but killing. He came home and it took him over 2 decades to understand the new country he came home too. He was lucky his wife stayed by him all the way to the grave many many decades after he came home. His son went into the Army also and after being deployed once to combat and returning home he understood his dad much better and they had many years of good father son relationship and yes they talked but not when anyone else was around. I know of some of the talks because you see he was my first boss after leaving the farm and college and returning home from my first encounter with the military and I protected him when he would go have a liquid lunch because something reminded him of WWII and what it cost him. He would talk when few others were around asking questions of did they teach you this or that, did you see this or that and how did it make you feel, etc.

I have lost many things since returning home so many decades ago, some were wives, some were kids and most of all is I lost some of me from before I went in. I had a nightmare that haunted me for decades, I told some about it and now I have been blessed for a while it no longer haunts me for now.

My personal prayer is that when I am done with college, have my license to work with veterans that I can help at least one come really home from the military and not take their own life to get away from the memories. If I can do that the over $100,000 to licensed will money well spent.

Never ask a veteran to talk about what they saw, did, endured unless they open the door and be ready for some possible really graphic information.

[1Shirt]

Felix posts well, and is on track with his thread!
1Shirt!

[TheCelt]

Remember sitting in the squadron ready room after a mission to Laos/Cambodia. Squadron dropped about 100,000 lbs. of HP and Willie Pete on the trail the day before and were preparing to do it again. Richard Nixon came on TV and proudly exclaimed to the American people that we were NOT bombing Laos and Cambodia! That was a true *** moment if ever there was one. I think most of the BUF that didn't make it back were destroyed in-place or are now moped parts in Ho Chi Min city. Same for the THUDS (F-105s) and F-4's out of Ubon, Udorn and Tahkli.

[ozo]

Thank you Bill and Blackthorn [welcome].
And Blackthorn, I think you are perfectly fine starting this thread, and I can't see it causing the least bit discomfort to anyone. Your words and the way you use them clearly show your intention, and leaves no doubt that you care for humanity.
We all are aware that we all are different. Some will speak, some will not, some will tell only parts. I am not sure that in many cases it is even an active and conscious choice. Some things were so surreal they were beyond the capacity of belief......and imagine that in the context of a kid 18 years old, many who had never been away from home before.
It was a long time ago for me, and I don't know if it matters, but surely it must help. Sometimes I think war veterans mentally view some experiences like watching a movie, and I'm not talking about our modern day generation that grew up on x-box and video games necessarily. After you watch any movie it begins to fade slowly from mind as you begin watching the next movie, not to say certain parts of any movie you watch will not get in your mind and stick.

[Love Life]

Blackthorn- Nothing in your OP was offensive, nor did you push any wrong buttons. I have often felt the same way as you. Think of all the history on this forum ALONE. We have members who served in the Continental Navy (Bad Water Bill), WWII, Korea, Vietnam, etc. Tons of history. Months worth of history that is going to go unrecorded. The sad part is, that is the histtory that my generation, generation Z, and the following generations need to hear. If you look at how history is presented in text books these days it is downright startling what they do teach. Sad indeed.

Now to the older members. Not just your war or service history is important. We need your history of our country. What was it like in the 1700s (couldn't help myself), what was it like in the 1940's, 50's, 60's 70's, 80's? What was our culture like? What were the prevailing issues of your times. What was the standard of livinig? How was life in this country overall? Times before an overreaching government and a nanny state came into being?

My Granfather died way to young in his early 70's. I would sit and listen as he would describe his years growing up, and I loved it. Oh the freedoms!! The lack of worry about possibly doing something illegal due to some obscure law that was enacted without representation. A time where a man's earnings were only limited by his work ethic and not fear of over taxation. A time when only the man worked and the wife got to stay home (by choice) and be a home maker. A time when being a home maker wasn't a frowned upon position. A time when only the man NEEDED to work in order to provide a comfortable standard of living for his family.

A time when people were held accountable for their actions, regardless of age (except babies...and stuff).

A time when America was great and revered by all.

That is the history we need put down. That oral (or written history) is what we need. With the blooming of the interweb (invented by Al Gore), and as many are raised with it, many of our youth are members of all kinds of forums. Putting the history out there will show them what they are missing and what changes they need to bring about.

[unclogum bill]

So you laugh at 1700 war stories. Here's one pulled off the internet , its also written in my family history as we came here in 1732 and have records of who lost a limb and such dating back to revolutionary war. One of the players in this links to my family.On July 14, 1776, a raiding party captured three teenage girls from Boonesborough as they were floating in a canoe on the Kentucky River. They were Jemima, daughter of Daniel Boone, and Elizabeth and Frances, daughters of Colonel Richard Callaway. The Cherokee Hanging Maw led the raiders, two Cherokee and three Shawnee warriors. The girls' settlement raised alarm, and Boone organized a rescue party. Meanwhile the captors hurried the girls north toward the Shawnee towns across the Ohio River. The girls attempted to mark their trail until threatened by the Indians.
The third morning, as the Indians were building a fire for breakfast, the rescuers came up. As one Indian was shot, Jemima said, "That's Father's gun!"[citation needed] He was not immediately killed. Two of the wounded Native American men later died. The Indians retreated, leaving the girls to be taken home by the settlers.
Jemima married Flanders Callaway, who had been one of the rescuing party. Elizabeth Callaway married Samuel Henderson, and Frances married John Holder. The episode served to put the settlers in the Kentucky wilderness on guard and prevented their straying beyond the fort. Although the rescuers had feared the girls would be raped or otherwise abused, Jemima Boone said, "The Indians were kind to us, as much so as they well could have been, or their circumstances permitted."
Family version adds that Boones daughter "16 and there fore already a woman", hit one of the Indians with the canoe paddle causing a head wound, the other two girls were 14 years of age. All were married off quick after the incident.

[quilbilly]

Note to my fellow Viet Nam Vets:
Shortly after the evacuation, my ship found itself in Singapore an me reading the Straits Times in a famous old hotel bar. There was a report in the paper about a meeting of the heads-of-state of the SE Asian economic tigers of the time including Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, Phillipines, and others. The leaders of Vietnam came strutting their stuff as they had beat the U.S. but were laughed out of the conference because " they were irrelevant having been drained of all resources by they U.S.". The article stated that the U.S. had won that war because there is more than one way to win a war. You can make you enemy irrelevant.
IMHO - We won that war but did it the hard way. I am proud of that and am not afraid to tell a progressive that since any of today's progressives would have support Ho and Jane Fonda. We did the same thing to the USSR in their war in Afganistan and with "star wars" (goes around comes around).
Sadly the progressives who would have supported Ho Chi Minh now run the country.
To my fellow Vietnam vets WE WON

[Dragoon 45]

I would have agreed with you about the VA 8 years ago, but the VA here is swamped and will not hire additional personnel to handle the increased patient load. The closest VA Hospital was built in the mid 1940's and should have been replaced decades ago. I have been on a waiting list for over 6 months for a simple referral to a pain management clinic for a steriod shot for my back where I had major surgery on it after being injuried in combat, my patience with the VA is about exhausted. I do not want pain pills which they keep shoveling at me on a monthly basis, just trying to get a simple steroid shot should not take 6 months to get. Every answer from the VA is to take more pills, they will not do anything to treat the underlying condition.


I am glad your experiences are more positive but there is a huge difference between your experiences and mine. I had over 31 years total service when I retired in Dec 2004. I see little difference in how servicemembers were treated in 1973 vice how they are treated now. Oh, people are a little more polite about it today, but they look down their noses at servicemembers and veterans as much today as they did in 1973. And to give a little indication of things to come, wait till you have to deal with the VA, you will quickly learn to cringe every time you hear that "Thank You for Your Service" as you are about to be screwed over big time by the VA. Or even better when you are applying for a civilian job and you hear that phrase when you are told you didn't get the job, because they hired someone less qualified than you because they were not a veteran.

I'm sorry your experience with the VA is so bad. I'm under care with the VA, and I'm very happy with the care I get. On par with the best hospitals in my area. I'm diabetic, have had prostate surgery, care for my heart condition, and many therapies and surgeries relating to the above conditions.

My prescriptions cost only a 10 buck co-pay, otherwise they'd cast me thousands each month. Average cost overall each year is 1 thousand bucks.

If not for the VA, I just couldn't live like I am, I'd be eating Ramon noodles 3X-day.

[Recluse]

A lot of vets simply want to forget.

:coffee:

[MtGun44]

I've talked to many vets about their service, but mostly in aircraft and on ships. I think the
land battles that were more personal are a lot harder on the people.

I would like to point out, that I am entirely sincere when I say "thank you for your service" to
a service person. I really do understand the military (father, brother, sister, and more were or
are in the Navy, Marines or AF) pretty well, even though I never served. My contribution has
been to design and build things to make bad things happen to bad people for more than 30 years.

I sure have no real idea about ground combat, but I am truly thankful for those the have
served and sorrowful for their wounds physical and mental. I have lost close family to war,
and it sure hurts, forever. One family member has been to the sandboxes 7 times.

For all those veterans out there - Thank you for your service. Stay safe.

Bill

[jaysouth]

I think that most VN vets could tell you that surviving the first 20 or 30 years after VN was an ongoing ordeal that left them feeling an outcast. The heroes of that era were people like John Kerry, our esteemed secretary of state and former senator from Mass, going around telling everyone that anyone and everyone who served in VN was a war criminal, murderer, arsonist and rapist. This was picked up by the MSM and became a perception that made life miserable. You could see it in the eyes of employers, admissions directors, bosses and, and fellow workers.

Most of the people who suffered were draftees. They had two choices, go into the army or go to prison, that's what the draft is all about. The heroes were the ones that fled the country and denounced those who served. There are legions of veterans who have been badly abused by our country that are loathe to speak of any experience lest they will be tainted by john Kerry and his ilk.

Think about who is running our country today. The heroes of the anti-war movement, need I say Hillary, Joe Biden, John Kerry, the executive staff of almost every college and university, and our media. I understand why a lot of people are ashamed to speak of their service.

[leeggen]

Very well said Jaysouth!!! As a student in school if someone spit on me it was fight on. During my service I was never asked if I wa in Vn., I was a military person and that was that.
We underwent bomb threts hate mail and every kind of disrespect you can imagine and some you can't. That is why I try to thank every Serviceman or woman I meet. Sometimes it is hard for me to do , but then I remember what I felt like haveing been treated in disrespect, so I put my hand out to thank those that feel upside down about coming home from duty.
Sometimes it is not just for them but for myself also. It is a real shame that our soldiers have to get plumb da-- drunk just to beable to release some of their troubles. I know a few and I listen carefully to them, then I never pass their story along cause it was said in a military type confidence amoung past and present service members. It was their secret and I respect them, I just talk to them about specail help that I know about.
CD

[jaysouth]

When I got out of the army in 1969, I applied for a position with several police departments in the Middle Atlantic area. One interviewer ask if I still did drugs or had ever murdered any villagers.

In the late 70s, I worked for a small subsidiary of a well known media giant. there were 50-60 employees depending on demand. Each week an employee was selected randomly for a drug test. Two black guys on the loading dock and I took 45 for the 'random' tests in one year. A couple of years later, I was the corporate controller of a very well known internet company. One of the people that reported to me was the director of personnel. She was of the opinion that all veterans be flagged as potential threats in the workplace and that no VN veterans be hired because of their proclivity to violence and drug use (the president of the company was a West Point grad and did two tours in VN). He and I seldom agreed on anything, but that was her last day on the job, but indicates a mindset fueled by the mainstream media and pop culture.

I could go on for hours. After Obama got elected the second time, I sewed my flag up in a triangular pigskin case. It will not be displayed again, because it does not represent the country that I grew up in and my family has served since 1777. It will be cremated with me when the end comes.

It has not gone away and we should be aware that all too many vets don't want to be identified as such much less talk about their experiences.

[MtGun44]

I respect those that served and despise Kerry, Clinton and Biden.

They have the lying media pushing their false stories, and get away with it. They are wrong
and the veterans are in the right. The alphabet networks and big eastern papers like NYSlimes
and Washington Compost are a pox on this country, providing nothing but falsehoods 90% of
the time.

Bill

[rick173]

Well I looked in here again and decided I would crack the lid on that can of night crawlers just a little. So here goes. I went to Viet Nam in January of 1966 assigned to the 1st Bat, 503rd Parachute Infantry Regiment, 173rd Airborne Brigade. I'm not going to talk about blood and gore. I want to relate a few short things that reading through this thread tonight prompted me to think about. The first thing is who we were really at war with. Anyone who has ever spent a little time in the far east will readily understand this. Although they all have slanty eyes there are major differences in the looks of Chinese, Vietnamese, Koreans etc. It is based on this and the fact that we did body counts and saw our enemy after the fight that I say we killed a lot of Chinamen over there along with VC and North Vietnamese Regulars. The second thing is a ambush patrol one night. It was dusk not dark yet. I was setup and watching my lane of fire when a 6ft white guy in dark brown fatigues walked by being followed by 20 or so VC. I came to my senses and opened up, to late to get the leader. When it was over we checked bodies but the white guy wasn't there. I told our platoon leader about it and he said I saw a Russian adviser. I have never had any doubt about who we were at war with and what for. It did my heart good when I heard about the Soviet Union being bankrupt and breaking up.
The other thing I'll relate was when we were not doing search and destroy ops. we sometimes took Air Force Forward Observers in close to their targets. It was on one of these little forays that we found the NVA 66th Division near Song Be. The problem with these little patrols was when the FO was calling in very accurate bombing runs it didn't take charlie to long to figure out those pilots had eyes on the ground. It was during this time that our FO, an Air Force Capt. got shot in the leg. The Company Commander got a Med Evac chopper going and we put down covering fire for the dust off to get in. I had the FO over my shoulder after sitting against a tree with him, getting a tourniqete [hell I can't spell] on his leg, before running out with him to the med evac. About ten years went by and I was on a flight from Newark to Washington when I got up to go to the mens room. As I walked down the isle of the plane I saw a pair of eyes locked on mine. I was back in the jungle in a second with the FO. I didn't look anything like I did as a 20 year old grunt and neither did he but we had instant recognition. It would be another 27 years before I dealt with what caused that moment. And that leads me to this. When I got home, which was to my parents home in New Jersey they hugged me welcomed me home and never said a word about my time away. I left Viet Nam wounded and spent 13 months at the 249th General Army Hosp. in Japan. They never mentioned it. They just didn't know how. Neither did I. It wasn't until my wife of 15 years asked me since the mess over there was over, was I ever going to watch the news again. Hell I said the news is boring. If I want to know what the weather was I would ask her. Who me? I'm fine. Fifteen years after that she stopped sleeping with me because I was reliving the thing in nightmares and she was tired of me saving her, covering her and or pushing her out of bed into low cover. I still held out another 7 years before a close friend of mine and a WW2 combat veteran took me down to the VA in San Antonio[we had moved to Texas in 1978] and introduced me. They signed me up and walked me into triage and said I needed to see a PTSD Counselor. Well I did and they did and now I'm 68 and I don't wake up screaming anymore. It ain't perfect but it's enormously better.
I hope that some of you new kids coming back from Afghanistan and Iraq. That little war on terrorism where you got to serve multiple tours and had geniuses telling you they were going to bring you in and talk to you about your experiences every few months and that way you wouldn't get PTSD. I couldn't believe I heard that right the night it was on the news. I think the talking heads can report anything and keep a straight face.
Man don't be me. Go right away and get the help. Your life will be so much better. It seems like BS when your doing the different programs. But a little at a time you get a little better. But it takes a long time.
So Airborne! and Semper Fi! for my Marine grunt brothers.
Sorry I went on so long and thanks for listening.

[AlaskanGuy]

I must say this... Lots of folks that returned from asia came home to unwelcome hostile crowds of folks that did not love, or support us in any way. Many just hated. Made me ashamed for the time that i served for a long time. like i had done something wrong... Then i saw how things changed with desert storm and such with those awesome guys that served the same way that we all served, and they were heroes, while those that served before were scum. That s why i don't say nuthin about it... Bring up all of those feelings of betray, and bitterness, and those are better left buried forever. I have learned to forgive, but its damm hard to forget.... Better to just put it away and not discuss. I am much happier that way.

Everybody that puts on a uniform and their life on the line for the service of their country is a hero. Period.