Elephant BP

[oldred]

I ran into a deal on some older cans (unopened except for one about 3/4 full) of Elephant FF BP, six 1 lb cans for $50 at a yardsale of all places! I have never shot Elephant and was wondering what you guys think of it?



This lady was clearing out a bunch of muzzle loader stuff but except for the powder it was all to be sold as a lot, from what I saw it was mostly junk and I was not interested in anything but the powder which I feel was a bargain that she let me have separately from the other stuff. I think she was afraid of it and wanted to get rid of it as soon as she could.

[ms_pacman]

It depends on what you are shooting it in. It is a good musket powder or shotgun powder. If you don't have either of those, use it for fireworks. Check the date code too. If it was made in 1998 or 1999 those were good years. This will not do a long silhouette shot, maybe a short one. It just really depends on what you are shooting.

[45bpcr]

i used to shoot alot of Elephant 2f in my 45-90. Velocity was not the highest but accuracy was very good. Lot # 25-99 was a particularly good one.
Shoot it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

45bpcr

[waksupi]

I shot a few cases of it. Liked it.

[oldred]

i used to shoot alot of Elephant 2f in my 45-90. Velocity was not the highest but accuracy was very good. Lot # 25-99 was a particularly good one.
Shoot it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!45bpcr



A 45-90 is what I plan on shooting it in with the Lee 459-500-3R, currently I have been using up my supply of Goex FF but that's starting to get a bit low. I don't know what year this powder is from but it appears to be old and well stored since the cans are VERY dusty but otherwise new looking. I will check the code when I get back to the shop to see if I can learn more about what I have but for the price as long as it goes BOOM and creates that satisfying cloud of smoke I will be happy with it for a "plinking" powder.

[sharpsguy]

Elephant is slow and burns really dirty. If it were me, I would try to get my fifty bucks back.

[oldred]

Finally got around to loading some of this stuff and I checked out those cans, the bottom of the can is printed in black ink like this,,,


174
39/1997

The label on the can says "Made in Brazil" and the contents are dark in color and shiny. I can't really tell much if any difference between it and the Goex I have been using but I will be the first to admit I don't have the experience to make a really qualified comparison. I didn't have a chrono so velocity is just a guess but POI was about the same as the identically loaded Goex rounds I shot for the comparison however fouling was noticeably worse but not so bad as to be any more of a problem, it did however go bang and looked/smelled like the Goex when I pulled the trigger so I guess I can consider myself happy with it at about $9 a lb!


It may not be the best but it's REAL BP, I would try to shoot dirt before I would load my rifle with any of the phony BP "subs"!

[Chill Wills]

It can be made to shoot. I shot into 3rd over all -Bronze Medallion- in 2001 NRA Creedmoor Nationals 8-9-1000 yards with Elephant. Enjoy it!
Michael Rix

[crappie-hunter]

I don't know the lot # I have but It is fine for shotguns, for rifles the fouling is a little too hard unless you wipe after every shot. I have improved this condition some by mixing Elephand and Swiss 50/50 and now can get several shots before wiping. Seem a waste of good swiss but I bought my swiss when it was half the price it is today and this allows me to get rid of that nasty elephant stuff. There was I am told a lot# of elephant that was very good I don't remember what the # was.

[waksupi]

The comments on fouling are interesting. I found Elephant to not foul as bad as GOEX. There may or may not have been more actual fouling in the bore, but the Elephant was softer, and easier to clean. I'm pretty sure this is just because of the climate differences in different areas.

[Don McDowell]

I have some lot 149 from 5-2-93, it gives decent velocity and the accuracy isn't bad, but my gosh that stuff fouled horrible from the get go, and going back to the Goex from the early 80's is quite an improvement.
The worst part of your powder find is if the stuff works for you, you'll play hob trying to find more of that same lot so you can keep on shooting without having to rework the loads. Which may not be a problem if you only shoot a few rounds per year, but when you're cranking 180 rounds for score (70 grs at a pop) down range at something like the nationals at the Whittington center, you may be into problems.

[oldred]

I shot some more of this stuff today and the fouling is noticeably worse than the Goex rounds that except for the brand of powder are identical loads. This fouling is somewhat heavier (SPG lube) but it's soft and cleans easily and since I generally wipe between shots, or at least every other shot depending on the situation, it doesn't create a problem for me. The type of shooting I am doing is just for fun anyway and is just informal target shooting here on my farm, I am not quite ready for competition shooting but I have a heck of a lot of fun just punching holes in paper!

[Don McDowell]

The only way you'll ever be ready for competition shooting is to go to a match, pay your entry and jump right in with both feet. You'll learn more about what makes a rifle tick by the end of the day of match shooting than you will in the next year of shooting at home.

[bedbugbilly]

I had a can of it (FFG) given to me many years ago when I was shooting rifled musket in NSSA. If I remember correctly (and I may be wrong on this) it was touted as being very close to what the quality of powder was during the Civil War. Funny thing, I put the can in with my supply of BP and never got around to using it as I always shot Goex. Right now, it rests in my supply - still untapped. . . . along with some cans (empty) from the mid 60s when I first started shooting BP . . . you know . . . the ones with the 75 cent price marked on top of the can with a grease pencil. Boy do I wish it was that price now! I can't attest as to how dirty it is but I'd use it - it's BP.

[MT Chambers]

If I had some BP that I wasn't to keen on, I'd use it for duplex loads, 10% 4759...90%bp on top, enjoy!

[cal50]

I used two different cases ( 50 lbs) of Elephant powder and it was all as good or better than the Goex being sold at the time.

One case had rust inside the can on several cans of powder. I ended up dumping it all together and sieving it all to get some rust flakes separated from to powder.
The cans were the black & yellow and looked like they were hand soldered / sealed.

I still have one can of FFFFF ( 5F)

[45bpcr]

This the stuff your talking about? I've been sitting on these 2 lbs since 2007. Thier both un-opened.
Perhaps one of these days I'll put together some loads for my 45-90 and run them side by side with some current manufacture Swiss just for yuks.
Whatever the results are would just be for interest as the powders long out of production.

45bpcr


83497
83498

[Outpost75]

It real BP. Not of the highest quality, but it works. Great as shotgun and musket powder, though cap & ball revolvers used with it bind up more quickly from fouling. OK in BP cartridges for cowboy rifles and revolvers, but you will get about 10% lower velocity than Goex.

[oldred]

This the stuff your talking about? I've been sitting on these 2 lbs since 2007. Thier both un-opened.
Perhaps one of these days I'll put together some loads for my 45-90 and run them side by side with some current manufacture Swiss just for yuks.
Whatever the results are would just be for interest as the powders long out of production.



45bpcr


83497
83498

Those look just like the cans I have but instead of the paper label on the bottom mine are labeled with ink directly on the can bottom. I have been shooting this stuff and so far I am a long way from being disappointed with it but compared to the Goex it does foul more, I would not buy any more at goex prices but I would buy more of it for what I paid for this. It may not be the best powder out there but it goes "Boom" and makes the right smoke and smell!:bigsmyl2:

[cal50]

This the stuff your talking about? I've been sitting on these 2 lbs since 2007. Thier both un-opened.
Perhaps one of these days I'll put together some loads for my 45-90 and run them side by side with some current manufacture Swiss just for yuks.
Whatever the results are would just be for interest as the powders long out of production.

45bpcr


83497
83498



Yep, same stuff.
Make sure there is no rust inside the can on the bottom.

[JWFilips]

Years ago I tested this stuff against Goex ( they were a client of mine -Goex that is. It was in the 90's) The Elephant stuff was more moisture sensitive at that time but is shot pretty good ( however at much lower velocity / vs the Goex product) it was a viable powder..... If you don't mind chopping down the rain forests in South America to make the stuff!) My job was to promote the stuff made in Pennsylvania ( back then!) Well now it is made in LA so guess what the moisture content is higher now) & my friends are now gone ( the Faringers) But the fine Lady in charge now knows her stuff so I will stay with American Made Goex product, Just MHO

[oldred]

I will stay with American Made Goex product, Just MHO


When I get around to placing an order for powder it will be Goex as up until now that is what I have been shooting, this thread never was an attempt to make a comparison between the two powders. The Elephant BP was just a one time buy of an old stash of powder and was only bought because it was quite cheap compared to buying retail, I had never even seen any of the stuff before stumbling onto this batch at that yardsale and I was just curious about what I had bought. Although I am not overly impressed with it I am not at all disappointed and I would like to find some more at that price, hey for less than $9 a lb I think I could like it!

[John Boy]

The reason Elephant and Diamondback powders from Brazil are lower velocity powders is because the charcoal lacks ample glucose and creosote ... it's made from bamboo!

[concho]

I have used it and no complaints ! burns dirty like all black powder does wipe after ever shot and it does the job .

[Beekeeper]

I use Diamondback BP (the old elephant powder) in all of my BP rifles.
They are of course old junkers when held up against everyone elses.
I have 2 Gahendra Martini henrys in 577/450.
2 Gahendra Martini/Mausers that I built from scratch using 43 Mauser Barrels.
And 2, 43 Mausers.
I am able to get at least 5 shots out of each before using a blow tube.

During cleaning "yes" I do find that I get more fowling than I did with Goex but considering the type of shooting I do the extra price isn't worth it.

As someone said it goes boom and makes smoke.
Hey I am able to get out to 855 yards with it using a 340 grain boolit and 70 grains of powder so it isn't all bad.
Sometimes you have to have a tradeoff ;IE price versus availability versus what you want it to do!

But that is only my $.02 worth and I am sure someone will call it **** anyway.


beekeeper

[Chill Wills]

Ya know, it is funny how the subject of the old Elephant brand of BP is still a topic after all these years of them being out of the market place!

I wish I had a few more cases of the stuff. The last case I got was from George Peterson (Treebone Carving) a number of years back. He, like all of us, could not make it work in BPCR match level shooting and so he was dumping a case each of FFg and FFFg for $125 each. I got the FFg and then wished I had picked them both up. I had a lot of old Elephant on hand when I got the case from him but I like it for uses other than target shooting with cartridge rifles, so I wanted more. I burn it in my cap-n- ball pistols and ML for just fun shooting. It works just fine. I use it in my 44 SAA and it makes recoil a little less than the hotter powders and it shoots to the sights in my one 45 Colt SAA.

The stuff has its place and is very useful. I will miss it when my stash is gone.
Michael Rix

[John Allen]

I used i years ago. I had no complaints