Throat size how much is to much?

[deymorin]

The title says it all, what I have is a 401 herters power mag that has a groove dia of .402-3 and throats measuring .407. Now thw dies I have to load with are the lee 40sw dies which are predicated on a .400 projectile.How would you fellrs proceed. Oh and I do cast and load for 41 magnum

[44man]

Shoot it with .403" to .405" boolits, bet it works. Don't shoot .400".
The guns were ugly as you can get but were well made.
I don't know what dies you need.

[Piedmont]

Your .41 mag seater/crimper die should work with the .401. I'd be more comfortable loading .406 bullets. Buckshot can make you a proper lubrisizer die. A .41 mag bullet with a deep crimp groove could be sized down to .406.

[Char-Gar]

Before you do anything, go here and read this..

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell401PowerMag.htm

[deymorin]

Thanks I had read Mr Fryxell's article before and again just now, as well as Lee Martin's.What had me concerned was every mention of the 401magnum indicates a groove dia .403 and throat dia of .405. Mine slugged a tight .403 groove and .407 for the throat. Now if I size to .407, will that be to much constriction and lead to leading or worse. If not that would be great cause like I said I cast for 41 magnum (lee's 210 tl boolit, which my mold drops between .410 and .411)and could start loading with only the purchase of a sizing die to begin. Please I ask with no preconcieved notions and hve not decided on a course of action yet, so any and all opinions are welcome. Heh my wife wouldnt believe I just said that :-o


Also as a side question, the 40sw die set I have is the 4 die set with the fcd. My limited expirence with lee fcd's is with rifle calibers. Rifle fcds are more or less collets and have a certain amount of adjustment as far as how much squeeze it puts on the boolit,but the pistol die I hve looks different.In other words if I try this die with over sized boolits is there way of keeping it from squeezing it back down?

[shorty500M]

have used slugs as large as .458 to fit fat throats in oversize .45 that had groove diameters ranging from .452-.454. not ideal and should watch for excessive pressures but can work with soft to medium hardness alloys

[Char-Gar]

Leading will not caused by shooting a bullet .004 larger than the barrel groove diameter. If you have leading issues, they will come from somewhere else.

[deymorin]

The alloy I have is WW, as I understand it as air cooled WW is about 10-12? would that be considered medium? What about water quench? Those seem to do well when I pushem above 1200 in my 41 and my 3030

[shorty500M]

just the ww aircooled and sized to match throats. as walt melander <RIP> of NEI molds always said-when the big light hits it, it will fit barrel. would reference the .41mag for powder/bullet wieght combinations and ease up gently

[Char-Gar]

The alloy I have is WW, as I understand it as air cooled WW is about 10-12? would that be considered medium? What about water quench? Those seem to do well when I pushem above 1200 in my 41 and my 3030

Do not water quench your bullets for this handgun.

[Piedmont]

Thanks I had read Mr Fryxell's article before and again just now, as well as Lee Martin's.What had me concerned was every mention of the 401magnum indicates a groove dia .403 and throat dia of .405. Mine slugged a tight .403 groove and .407 for the throat. Now if I size to .407, will that be to much constriction and lead to leading or worse. If not that would be great cause like I said I cast for 41 magnum (lee's 210 tl boolit, which my mold drops between .410 and .411)and could start loading with only the purchase of a sizing die to begin. Please I ask with no preconcieved notions and hve not decided on a course of action yet, so any and all opinions are welcome. Heh my wife wouldnt believe I just said that :-o


Also as a side question, the 40sw die set I have is the 4 die set with the fcd. My limited expirence with lee fcd's is with rifle calibers. Rifle fcds are more or less collets and have a certain amount of adjustment as far as how much squeeze it puts on the boolit,but the pistol die I hve looks different.In other words if I try this die with over sized boolits is there way of keeping it from squeezing it back down?
I wouldn't size down a tumble lube .41 for this. You'll wipe out the mini grooves. Use a bullet with a real grease groove that is full of grease. Also, it seems to me your .40 S&W crimp die would be a disaster for the .401. You could finger lube if you don't have a lubrisizer, or pan lube, and use an appropriate push through die around .406-.407". I think Buckshot can make push through dies, too, and I would trust him more to get the diameter right than special ordering a Lee push through die.

Actually, having large cylinder throats on this one is probably a benefit because you can crimp with your .41 Magnum die and you can use .41 mag bullets sized down a bit, instead of having to special order a custom mold. Do get a mold with a deep crimp groove because you don't want to wipe it out when you size down.

[deymorin]

Ive been wanting a real keith boolit for my 41 anyway, why no water quench?

[kweidner]

Get a .402 and lap it with split dowel and 400 grit till you get close then finish with 600. I custom all my sizers. Really no big deal. 15 minute job.

[44man]

Ive been wanting a real keith boolit for my 41 anyway, why no water quench?
No real reason because you should test both ways. The deal is if you need to size too much, do it right after casting before they get too hard.
But a Buckshot or Lee push through can be done anytime.
I would not use a FCD.

[Char-Gar]

If you want to water drop, then water drop. I would not, but why keep you from doing what you want.

[deymorin]

If you want to water drop, then water drop. I would not, but why keep you from doing what you want.

I had not stated an intent or intended to snub an opinion, I merely asked why. I am fully aware of my own lack of knowledge, but an opinion is wasted if the reasoning behind it is unclear.Some times text does not convey intent well but believe me when I say there was no sarcasm intended.

[deymorin]

Get a .402 and lap it with split dowel and 400 grit till you get close then finish with 600. I custom all my sizers. Really no big deal. 15 minute job.


I had read about this thanks. I think Ill try it worst I could do is waste 20 bucks

[deymorin]

I wouldn't size down a tumble lube .41 for this. You'll wipe out the mini grooves. Use a bullet with a real grease groove that is full of grease. Also, it seems to me your .40 S&W crimp die would be a disaster for the .401. You could finger lube if you don't have a lubrisizer, or pan lube, and use an appropriate push through die around .406-.407". I think Buckshot can make push through dies, too, and I would trust him more to get the diameter right than special ordering a Lee push through die.

Actually, having large cylinder throats on this one is probably a benefit because you can crimp with your .41 Magnum die and you can use .41 mag bullets sized down a bit, instead of having to special order a custom mold. Do get a mold with a deep crimp groove because you don't want to wipe it out when you size down.

My 41mag crimp die hadnt even occurred to me, thanks

[Char-Gar]

I had not stated an intent or intended to snub an opinion, I merely asked why. I am fully aware of my own lack of knowledge, but an opinion is wasted if the reasoning behind it is unclear.Some times text does not convey intent well but believe me when I say there was no sarcasm intended.

I hold the opinion, and it is not mine alone, that water dropping causes more problems that it solves and there is no need for bullets that hard ever in sixgun shooting. Now, I have been around this board for a long time and the water droppers will flock here to take me to task. I am just tired of the same old round and round again and want no part of it. I didn't take your comment as sarcasm, I just don't want to whip this dead horse around the track one more time. Do a search on the topic and will you will come up with all kinds of idea, notions and reasoning on the subject including some of mine. I doubt you will find any of it convincing absent knowledge of the people offering up the opinions, so do as you wish and then you will know for yourself.

[44man]

I had not stated an intent or intended to snub an opinion, I merely asked why. I am fully aware of my own lack of knowledge, but an opinion is wasted if the reasoning behind it is unclear.Some times text does not convey intent well but believe me when I say there was no sarcasm intended.
Depends! It is boolit skid in the rifling and if it stops before the base with any lead, good to go. Step up loads and making the boolit harder will aid stopping skid.
Soft lead needs a GC to halt skid but you can exceed the GC too. You see, it is the boolit base band with no gas openings you look for.

[44man]

Some believe real soft will still expand and seal after skid has opened gas channels but it does not hold water. Fit is important until the boolit skids and gas squirts past the boolit. Thousands of pounds of pressure that can't be stopped. Soft boolits also slump to never look like what you cast.
A Keith can turn into a WLN before leaving the cylinder, GG's can be wiped out.
Another will say to shoot way over throat size, doesn't work. Obturate is a crazy thing because only a boolit at or just over groove size will obturate, it just means SEAL! But if you skid past the base, all is lost.
Every one of my revolvers shoots water dropped WW boolits. Air cooled gives me fliers, softer NEEDS a GC and still gives me fliers.
Leading is a different subject, I get none. Even a 50-50 mix of WW's and pure will not lead a barrel but I oven harden them to 20 BHN. Those still need a GC.