H&R Question?

[crashguy]

I have recently acquired a H&R Handie rifle in .357 Mag. I slugged the barrel that showed .3555..... does that conform to anyone else's experience? Also any other experiences / observation on the rifle or pet loads are welcome.
Thanks in advance
Ed

[Goatwhiskers]

No direct experience with the rifle but you might wanta double check with another slug, just seems mighty tight. Still, shouldn't be a problem especially with cast as you can size for your gun. I will suggest at the outset that you strongly consider opening it out to Max, that gives you three different cartridges to shoot, and that Max with a cast WFN is a deer and hog slugger out to 200 or so, plus you don't need different dies. GW

Edit: Just remember, if you should have any accuracy problems, first and foremost keep the latch and shelf DRY, no oil. There are a ton of other accuracy tricks found in the NEF/HR forum on the graybeard site.

[williamwaco]

I have never seen a .357 that small.

I suspect your slug was not completely expanded to fill the grooves.

.

[crashguy]

I thought it was kinda tight as well.... just needed a reality check. I'll re-do the slugging. I am considering the 357 max. not too many hogs here in New York ( not yet anyway) but there are a fair amount of deer that would look good in my freezer. greybeard does have a bunch of info
Thanks
Ed

[Lead Fred]

Thats 38 super size

[curator]

Check out the grey beard Handi site--lotsa good info. My .357 Handi slugs out at .3560 so you aren't far off. Only problem I have found with the .357 Handi is the loooong chamber throats. Treat it like a 360 Dan Wesson and you won't go wrong. In fact the .360 Dan Wesson cases fit nicely (about .135" longer than .357Mag and special order from Starline) but seating heavy (180 & 200 Grain) slugs to touch the rifling leade in normal .357 brass works as well.

[Gtek]

Cerrosafe? .357 MAX, no backing up. Single shot- crimp if only needed for correct burn. I would find 5/16" rod and cut to length for you desired depth. Wrap with tape or shrink tube and put in case. Drive slug from chamber enough to chamber case set-up. From muzzle take rod-(not wood) and drive back and press between the two. Open chamber, remove setup and drive slug out chamber = real. Gtek

[Whiterabbit]

Only problem I have found with the .357 Handi is the loooong chamber throats. Treat it like a 360 Dan Wesson and you won't go wrong. In fact the .360 Dan Wesson cases fit nicely

I noticed the chamber was very very long. way longer than a 357 mag, not quite to 357 max.

My dumb question is why is this a problem? I reamed mine to 357 max, so its even LONGER! yet when I shoot 38 specials I have no troubles getting them into the X ring at 25 yards on an 25 yard NRA target, with a 1x (only) scope. Sometimes the bullet holes are touching. 357 mag are the same. I'll bet if I load 230 grain 357 maxes I can do the same too, but my 250 grain loads shoot a smidge low.

That's plenty for rabbits and brush deer, here.

[45-70 Chevroner]

My ancient 5 screw 4" S&W Highway Patrol mic's out at .355. It has had over a 100,000 lead and J-words shot through it, and it still mic's at .355. This gun will shoot 5 shot one hole groups at 25 yards all day long. I can't do that any more but I'm 72 years old and my eyes are not what they used to be, and I also shake a little bit too. I can still keep it in the 2" too 3" range though.

[leftiye]

H&R hasn't heard of Q/C yet, their barrel dimensions hardly ever are standard. Usually their grooves are not deep to specs. I've got a 45-70 barrel that slugs .452/.457. Your .357 has 9mm dimensions.

[Jeff H]

I noticed the chamber was very very long. way longer than a 357 mag, not quite to 357 max.

My dumb question is why is this a problem? I reamed mine to 357 max, so its even LONGER! yet when I shoot 38 specials I have no troubles getting them into the X ring at 25 yards on an 25 yard NRA target, with a 1x (only) scope. Sometimes the bullet holes are touching. 357 mag are the same. I'll bet if I load 230 grain 357 maxes I can do the same too, but my 250 grain loads shoot a smidge low.

That's plenty for rabbits and brush deer, here.

Glad someone else noticed that!

I get a chuckle when I read that the H&R/NEF .357 chambers are "too long" and would benefit by being reamed to 'Max." to get rid of that long throat and then go on to read that the 'Max. chamber will shoot 'Mags and 'Specials exceptionally well even though the "throat" is now WAY longer.

In fairness, I have not noticed whether the same poster made both comments in the same post, but it seems I have read both in the same thread without a fight breaking out. It seems contradictory but whoever makes whichever comment doesn't seem to feel the other is disagreeing. Maybe there's something else about the factory throat that gets cleaned up when reaming to 'Max. Or, maybe it's just a good excuse to rent the reamer.:D

My Handi-Max was a reamed (by someone else) .357 Mag and it really did shoot .357 Max, .357 Mag and .38 Special all very, very well. All cast, of course and all sized .358". Never did slug the bore, I just shot 'Mags and 'Specials I already had loaded up and they shot very well so I just kept sizing that way for the 'Max loads I made up.

Now, my Rossi '92 grooves mic' at .355" and I size to .358" for that too with no chambering foibles, no pressure problems, no accuracy issues. I have shot some pretty hard commercially cast through it without issue but mainly shoot straight WW or 50/50 WW/Pb, both air cooled, with no leading. I am using bot 45/45/10 and 50/50 Alox/Beeswax depending on the bullet and no gas checks.

[hendere]

I have one that I love, but I've never slugged it. When I got it I was going to make it into a Max but held off because I couldn't find brass. Now two years later I doubt that I will ever do that. It seems to like any load I use in it, both 38 special and 357 Mag. My personal favorite is the Ranch Dog TLC359-175-RF (which I understand is going to be back into production). Fun gun.

[45-70 Chevroner]

H&R hasn't heard of Q/C yet, their barrel dimensions hardly ever are standard. Usually their grooves are not deep to specs. I've got a 45-70 barrel that slugs .452/.457. Your .357 has 9mm dimensions. I have never shot any cast boolits that were sized less than .357 and a lot of them were and still are shot sized to .358. It is a most fun gun to shoot with 38 wad cutters, and I never have any leading at the start of the forcing cone. The only Leading I have had is shooting lead that is too soft or too hard. Wheel weights with a little tin works best.

[leftiye]

OP has .3555 groove = 9mm. Will still shoot .357 or .358" boolits.

[crashguy]

To all that responded ..thanks .. Had it out with my shooting buddy the other day, we both agree .. this is a good shooting and fun gun. I ran some basic range scrap lead 124g Lee TC /TL (45-45-10) sized 358( I beagled the mold) over a 4g charge of 700x (published load) that I normally use for 38spl ( that run @ 820 fps out of a 4in) . After some tinkering with a not even noteworthy, 3-9 x32 scope, we were hitting our mark at 100 yrds. 75+ rounds and not a smear or speck of lead. Later in the day my buddy asked ... Do they make that in 45-70? He is known for the big calibers.... I smiled and said , yeah I'm pretty sure they do. I'll do a follow up range report when it becomes necessary.
There was an oddity though... the primer was stuck off center .. and I did have a few (5ish out of 75ish) FTF that either fired on the 2nd try or fired when in another gun we had. I used Fed match primers and have used them in my revolvers without issue for some time.
Ed

[Jack D]

828838288482885My .357 mag Handi was slugged and I believe it was .356, but can't remember for sure. At any rate it shoots just fine. I shoot both Hornady XTP's and FTX's and cast my own for target from scrap lead salvaged from my bullet trap and anything else I can find. The mold is a Lee 158 gr. SWC for Lee Alox lubricant. I've devised a way to put GC's on them and use the GC's for hot loads.

I've considered reaming to Maxi, but haven't found any cases, so no go until I do. In the meantime, I'm loading Maxi loads in magnum cases with great success in the 180 gr. XTP and 200 gr. FTX bullets. The long throat is the SAAMI standard and is likely the same in all newer factory rifles chambered in the .357 Magnum caliber, although I don't know this for sure.

Is your Handi on a SB1 shotgun frame or was it a factory .357 originally? The shotgun frame has a large firing pin (I'm told) and that could be the reason for the FTF's.

[crashguy]

Jack - was purchased as a .357. An update on the FTF. I used a batch, 50+, of R-P 38 spl brass with the same federal gold match primer ..no FTF. Used what was left of the fed +p brass and again FTFs. Suspect brass for some reason. Also ... I have a mold to produce those SWC (Lee SWC 158 TL) you put gas checks on. If it's not a trade secret... let us know how you get those gas checks on. Question -- in your photos .. are those 357 cases with bullet run out to the rifling ?

[Jack D]

Yes. the cases are magnum cases. You can load magnum cases much hotter in the Handi rifle due to the long throat. In fact with the 180 gr. XTP and 200 gr. FTX bullets (and I assume others) you can get the maximum published loads for the Maxi. I've been doing it for about a year now and they pack a wallop. See my web page for the .357 Handi that I built and some of the loads I use in it. http://www.metalsmithpro.com/357MagnumRifle.htm

Read this page for information on loading magnum cases to Maxi velocities. http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=658

No secret about gas checks on those bullets. I chuck them up in my 3/8 drill motor and using a smooth edge file (so as to not file the chuck) while the drill is turning, I file the base slightly, tipping it to form a base that allows the GC to "snap" on. Then I run it through the .358 sizing die to press it on. It's slow, but since I don't need a lot of them, it's not a chore. It works slick. The lead loads the file up, so I keep the file card handy.

[crashguy]

Jack - Nice web page, seems like you expended a large amount of effort to document your success with the Handi. That info will undoubtedly give me a head start getting the most out of my rifle. The GC modification may not be a secret, but, things tend to be obvious to people that know what they are doing, I'll give it a try.

[Jack D]

I'm using these GC's thus the reason they "snap" on if the filing is done correctly.

http://www.hornady.com/store/Gas-Checks