Buckshot
10-22-2007, 10:05 PM
That's an interesting note, Buckshot, but I think we have already avoided that problem.
Does that also mean that the Rockchucker was appropriate for bullet swaging as long as it was fitted with a hardened ram?
Which kind of swaging...stuffing lead inside a jacket...or the real thing?
CM
Charlie, As omgb mentioned, the Rockchucker CAN swage jacketed bullets. I think CH's offering the hardened ram was for doing larger bullets. I haven't bothered to check and see if CH still offers a hardened retrofit for the Rockchucker. If not then they'd gone to a hardened ram themselves or there just wasn't enough interest to keep it in the line. I had a CH catalog from several years ago and CH stated they had these rams to alleviate the 'T' slot collapsing from excess pressure.
http://www.fototime.com/843853136AD317F/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/29D72DD489D0475/standard.jpg
This is the swage press I bought from Richard Corbin (RCE Enterprises). The Walnut Hill model. A very well crafted press. Hard chromed guide/support rods with the platen riding in hard bronze bushings. The pressure you can exert is really something :-) The core forming die has a bleed hole for excess lead. If you run the die up to the punch and then lay on the handle you can shoot a lead wire out like stomping on a toothpast tube.
As stout as it is, with the handle all the way down if you watch close you can see the extruded lead slowly oozing out for a bit before stopping. The press has deformed or stretched with the pressure and slowly equalizes. You have to wait about 5 seconds before raising the handle for the press to relax. Doing this will give you a batch of cores weighing within a total spread of about .2 gr. Most will be within a tenth.
...................Buckshot
My Lee Classic single stage press has had the shellholder cut-down about 1/2 inch, and the top save for later to be mounted with a ring underneath...see pictures.
The base of the shellholder was then reamed out to accept the Herter's style shellholder, that has my punch stem inserted into the primer hole until it portrudes through the bottom to accept a fastening nut.
In my pictures you will see the bullet swaging ejector apparatus in place, and the bottom bar has my Herter's shellholder and its nose punch inserted.
There is also another picture show the old Lee Classic shellholder top I had cut off, it is now mounted with a ring band underneath it and can be placed in the same hole on the bottom ejector bar and held in place by a hex screw.
This all works very well for me...plus, I only had to aulter the shellholder two pieces to get this done. I still have a standard Lee shellholder if I ever need it.
The newer bottom bar had to be wider to accept the Herter's shellholders.
Jim
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/PC190006Bothbottombarscloseup.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/PC210008Leecut-offshellholder490X.jpg
The last picute shows the smaller top bar on the ejector apparatus that on the down stroke of the press handle pushes on the swaging die stem and ejects the bullet back out of the die.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/PC190006Bothbottombars490X.jpg
An earlier rendition of the bottom bar is seen laying atop the press, it proved to be too thin walled on its ram mounting base.
The newer bottom bar had to be made a bit wider to be able to accept the Herter's shellholders.
Jim
Swagerman,
Here is what I derive from your post:
You have modified a Lee Classic press to perform bullet swaging operations, and it can still be used for normal reloading by switching parts.
But (importantly, to me) the press itself already had the strength and leverage to swage complete bullets from lead wire. All that was needed was reworking it to accept the swaging tools.
Would you say that I understood you correctly?
CM
Swagerman,
Here is what I derive from your post:
You have modified a Lee Classic press to perform bullet swaging operations, and it can still be used for normal reloading by switching parts.
But (importantly, to me) the press itself already had the strength and leverage to swage complete bullets from lead wire. All that was needed was reworking it to accept the swaging tools.
Would you say that I understood you correctly?
CM
================================================== =====
Montana Charlie...
Yep, the Lee Classic is plenty strong to do bullet shape swaging, and I'm not just talking about soft lead wire...it can handle Meister Cast bullets which is reputed to be pretty hard lead. So far I haven't had any bullet that wouldn't reshape in this press from the changes I've made...but I don't go in for real hard cast bullets.
I've even messed around with jacketed bullets swaging them into different shapes just to see if it could do it...it can.
The bullet ejector apparatus is my own thing because I got tired of pounding the top of that stem knob on the swaging die...the apparatus does it on the down stroke of the ram.
I modified the Lee Classic shellholder to take the Herter shellholder because they seem to give better concentric(centering) than the standard industry slip-in shellholders...that is they don't move around on you.
Jim
This thread has me thinking...So what would be the cheapest buy in price for swaging bullets? I sold my RC before I learned about the solid ram. Have to keep my eyes open for another. It would be a write-off anyways. How does one go about getting dies? I want to make a bullet you can't find anywhere (.375 300-325gr VLD). Should I get ready to bend over for the dies?
If you want dies at a reasonable price, I guess C-H is pretty good. But its been years since I've bought any there.
If you are not going to use lead wire to make 1/2 jacketed bullets, but just want to size or shape some cast bullets, be sure to order the swage dies in the exact diameter you want the bullet to be as a finished item.
The 1/2 jacketed lead wire bullets has two dies and one is for core, and one is for bullet seating in the core.
C-H will make them up for you in whatever you want.
Jim
Thanks for the info. I was thinking of casting round balls and swage them into bullet cores, then jacket them. Too much to mess with?
I would shy away from the round ball getting swaged. That is way too much work...though it would probably work.
Having swaging dies made in the exact diameter you need to seat in a brass case is the way to go. That way you bump up bullets in size, and reshape them to whatever nose shape you require.
Right now, I'm trying to get another Lee 25-35 seating die honed out to .432 diameter; for my .44 special with the big a$$ cylinder throats.
This Lee die will have its top seating stem removed and I'll put a cut-down 5/8X18 tpi bolt in it's place with a drilled hole to run an ejector shaft stem through it. This will be my home made custom swaging die for .432 diameter.
This is easy stuff for all the good machinest gents we have on this forum...they've got the know-how and the equipment to make it happen.
Jim
Does that also mean that the Rockchucker was appropriate for bullet swaging as long as it was fitted with a hardened ram?
Which kind of swaging...stuffing lead inside a jacket...or the real thing?
CM
Charlie, As omgb mentioned, the Rockchucker CAN swage jacketed bullets. I think CH's offering the hardened ram was for doing larger bullets. I haven't bothered to check and see if CH still offers a hardened retrofit for the Rockchucker. If not then they'd gone to a hardened ram themselves or there just wasn't enough interest to keep it in the line. I had a CH catalog from several years ago and CH stated they had these rams to alleviate the 'T' slot collapsing from excess pressure.
http://www.fototime.com/843853136AD317F/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/29D72DD489D0475/standard.jpg
This is the swage press I bought from Richard Corbin (RCE Enterprises). The Walnut Hill model. A very well crafted press. Hard chromed guide/support rods with the platen riding in hard bronze bushings. The pressure you can exert is really something :-) The core forming die has a bleed hole for excess lead. If you run the die up to the punch and then lay on the handle you can shoot a lead wire out like stomping on a toothpast tube.
As stout as it is, with the handle all the way down if you watch close you can see the extruded lead slowly oozing out for a bit before stopping. The press has deformed or stretched with the pressure and slowly equalizes. You have to wait about 5 seconds before raising the handle for the press to relax. Doing this will give you a batch of cores weighing within a total spread of about .2 gr. Most will be within a tenth.
...................Buckshot
My Lee Classic single stage press has had the shellholder cut-down about 1/2 inch, and the top save for later to be mounted with a ring underneath...see pictures.
The base of the shellholder was then reamed out to accept the Herter's style shellholder, that has my punch stem inserted into the primer hole until it portrudes through the bottom to accept a fastening nut.
In my pictures you will see the bullet swaging ejector apparatus in place, and the bottom bar has my Herter's shellholder and its nose punch inserted.
There is also another picture show the old Lee Classic shellholder top I had cut off, it is now mounted with a ring band underneath it and can be placed in the same hole on the bottom ejector bar and held in place by a hex screw.
This all works very well for me...plus, I only had to aulter the shellholder two pieces to get this done. I still have a standard Lee shellholder if I ever need it.
The newer bottom bar had to be wider to accept the Herter's shellholders.
Jim
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/PC190006Bothbottombarscloseup.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/PC210008Leecut-offshellholder490X.jpg
The last picute shows the smaller top bar on the ejector apparatus that on the down stroke of the press handle pushes on the swaging die stem and ejects the bullet back out of the die.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/PC190006Bothbottombars490X.jpg
An earlier rendition of the bottom bar is seen laying atop the press, it proved to be too thin walled on its ram mounting base.
The newer bottom bar had to be made a bit wider to be able to accept the Herter's shellholders.
Jim
Swagerman,
Here is what I derive from your post:
You have modified a Lee Classic press to perform bullet swaging operations, and it can still be used for normal reloading by switching parts.
But (importantly, to me) the press itself already had the strength and leverage to swage complete bullets from lead wire. All that was needed was reworking it to accept the swaging tools.
Would you say that I understood you correctly?
CM
Swagerman,
Here is what I derive from your post:
You have modified a Lee Classic press to perform bullet swaging operations, and it can still be used for normal reloading by switching parts.
But (importantly, to me) the press itself already had the strength and leverage to swage complete bullets from lead wire. All that was needed was reworking it to accept the swaging tools.
Would you say that I understood you correctly?
CM
================================================== =====
Montana Charlie...
Yep, the Lee Classic is plenty strong to do bullet shape swaging, and I'm not just talking about soft lead wire...it can handle Meister Cast bullets which is reputed to be pretty hard lead. So far I haven't had any bullet that wouldn't reshape in this press from the changes I've made...but I don't go in for real hard cast bullets.
I've even messed around with jacketed bullets swaging them into different shapes just to see if it could do it...it can.
The bullet ejector apparatus is my own thing because I got tired of pounding the top of that stem knob on the swaging die...the apparatus does it on the down stroke of the ram.
I modified the Lee Classic shellholder to take the Herter shellholder because they seem to give better concentric(centering) than the standard industry slip-in shellholders...that is they don't move around on you.
Jim
This thread has me thinking...So what would be the cheapest buy in price for swaging bullets? I sold my RC before I learned about the solid ram. Have to keep my eyes open for another. It would be a write-off anyways. How does one go about getting dies? I want to make a bullet you can't find anywhere (.375 300-325gr VLD). Should I get ready to bend over for the dies?
If you want dies at a reasonable price, I guess C-H is pretty good. But its been years since I've bought any there.
If you are not going to use lead wire to make 1/2 jacketed bullets, but just want to size or shape some cast bullets, be sure to order the swage dies in the exact diameter you want the bullet to be as a finished item.
The 1/2 jacketed lead wire bullets has two dies and one is for core, and one is for bullet seating in the core.
C-H will make them up for you in whatever you want.
Jim
Thanks for the info. I was thinking of casting round balls and swage them into bullet cores, then jacket them. Too much to mess with?
I would shy away from the round ball getting swaged. That is way too much work...though it would probably work.
Having swaging dies made in the exact diameter you need to seat in a brass case is the way to go. That way you bump up bullets in size, and reshape them to whatever nose shape you require.
Right now, I'm trying to get another Lee 25-35 seating die honed out to .432 diameter; for my .44 special with the big a$$ cylinder throats.
This Lee die will have its top seating stem removed and I'll put a cut-down 5/8X18 tpi bolt in it's place with a drilled hole to run an ejector shaft stem through it. This will be my home made custom swaging die for .432 diameter.
This is easy stuff for all the good machinest gents we have on this forum...they've got the know-how and the equipment to make it happen.
Jim