Finish sporterizing a spanish mauser

[rcav8r]

I have in my possession a 1916 spanish mauser (actually a 93, IIRC?), with the .308 conversion. The handguard, barrel bands, and front and rear sights have been removed. And by removed, I mean the sleeve for the rear sight was taken off. Lots of solder there.

So what are are my options to "finish" this rifle? I'm thinking of some better quality iron sights, if I can find something to match the heights. suggestions?

Any tricks for removing the old solder?

This might make a fun plinker, I wish I could find replacement barrel bands and handguard wood, it would at least look military again.

[dangerranger]

Going backwards isnt easy! I did a Swede Mauser for a friend. It took three rifles to make it right. He had a McMillian sporter and wanted a Millitary rifle that shot as well for match use. He bought a military rifle that had all the proper stock and trim. But its barrel looked like sewer pipe! So then he bought another rifle that had a cracked reciver but a good barrel. Then he bought a third rifle that had the micrometer sights he wanted. For putting it together he gave me the left over parts. Heres what I made from them.

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p345/dangerranger60/Picture089.jpg (http://s344.photobucket.com/user/dangerranger60/media/Picture089.jpg.html)

[nekshot]

now thats recycling at its best! Awsome!

[carbine86]

Looks like some real nice leftovers

[rcav8r]

Really nice!

I've been watching some stocks and barrels on ebay for the spanish mausers, but they are going for more than I'm willing to pay. I think I'll just drill and tap for some new iron sights, shorten the barrel a bit, and put a ebony or other dark wood fore end on the stock, with a new buttplate yet to be determined. Sling slot in stock to be filled in with some wood (haven't decided contrasting or not), or maybe even a brass piece, and a normal sling setup. I'd consider a scope, but it'd have to be very high mounts considering the bent bolt handle. I thought about getting the barrel contoured on the CNC lathe at work, but then the barrel channel would look kinda ugly.
It'll be a "lets see how it looks as we go along" project now.

[dangerranger]

The stock Im using is a Ramline that came with the McMillian. Boyds also makes a couple of stocks for the small ring mausers. The bolt on this one took the most time. It was cut and welded on twice before I was happy. Building a Sporter is not cheap, you will be in it about what a savage axis would have cost. But no one has one quite like mine. I used a Dayton trigger, and it now has a low mounted 6x scope. I painted it with Krylon camo paint. Its a great coyote getter! I just bought a Spanish 7mm Mauser for one of my sons. Its going to get the same treatment. His will need a new barrel. Someone before me cut it to 18". I think Ill stick with 7mm, and a Boyds stock. Good luck DR

[rcav8r]

OK....the military stock I was watching went for just over $250. That's just...:veryconfu

I guess I'm off to order sight bases and the rear sight. I can't figure out front sight height because I can't find specs for the bases' heights.

[Bjornb]

Boyd's sell their Prairie Hunter sporter stock for the Model 93, military (stepped) barrel for $69.

[gnoahhh]

My very first "customizing" job, as a 15 year old, 45 years ago, was on a $15 M1916 Spanish Mauser. Cherry fore end tip, and a cherry diamond inlay to cover the sling stud hole in the butt. My grandfather turned the steps out of the barrel, leaving a nice slim featherweight job. A Bushnell scope was mounted, and off I went to conquer the world. Trouble was, after all that it was the most wildly inaccurate rifle I ever owned (probably due to nutzing up the barrel), so away it went. (Truth be told it wasn't a tack driver before I started on it.) I wouldn't mind having it back now for sentimental reasons. That began, and ended, my love affair with old Spanish Mausers!

[rcav8r]

After seeing pics of short barreled bolt actions on ar15.com, I'm kind of tempted to scope this rifle. I bought iron sights for it (and lost a screw already :|), but now I'm tempted to buy a bolt from brownells and weaver scope bases, if I can figure out which ones fit this small ring mauser.

I also don't want to pay $25 for brownells 4 oz of 3.5% nickel welding rod. Anyone have any good alternatives?

[David2011]

Rcav8r,

The "ugly" steps in military barrels do have a function. An old gunsmith explained to me that the steps dampen resonance that a straight tapered barrel would have. I don't care for the looks of them either but have heard more anecdotal stories about recountoured military barrels shooting poorly than better. Actually, I can't recall ever hearing that one shot better after recontouring. No doubt someone here has.

Sporterizing is expensive. Go with a figured stock and medium priced barrel like a Shilen and you can be in the $800-900 range easily. Mauser actions have more than doubled in price since I built my first one.

OTOH, I couldn't buy an off the shelf rifle that shoots as well for what I have in one. I true the action, lap the lugs, square the bolt face and pillar and glass bed the action on a build. Not a lot in materials for all of that but lots of labor.

David

[pietro]

I have in my possession a 1916 spanish mauser (actually a 93, IIRC?), with the .308 conversion.

So what are are my options to "finish" this rifle?

This might make a fun plinker





Sorry, I wouldn't recommend putting anything into that rifle (work OR money), since the firing ANY .308 Winchester ammo in that rifle will definitely pose a problem, sooner or later.



.

[Bret4207]

Agree with Pietro. Get a 7x57 barrel and live happily ever after.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Sorry, I wouldn't recommend putting anything into that rifle (work OR money), since the firing ANY .308 Winchester ammo in that rifle will definitely pose a problem, sooner or later.

Here is a good read about these spanish rifles and how strong (or how weak they are.
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/spanishinquisition/

With that info out of the way, you should check the bolt face.

I own two 1916 conversions to 762nato.
Yes I would avoid Hot/commercial 308win ammo, but I think most of these rifles will handle the occasional firing of hot ammo. With that said, my custom Mauser building friend inspected my two rifles and found that both the bolt bodies had very large primer holes...and they both had peening around those holes, probably by some arsenal worker, to 'close the gap' so to speak. He was very concerned about the bolt bodies and he had me replace them with some surplus german bolt bodies he had on hand.
Jon

[35 Whelen]

Ran across this thread looking for something else.

My wife shot a couple of deer using my Scout rifle, which once was an FR-8, and expressed interest in having one of here own. So I found one of these 1916's real cheap and went to work. I used the original military stock, an M-1 carbine front sight, a Williams receiver sight, an XS Systems Scout scope mount and finished off with a good ol' home Parkerizing. I won't go into great detail with pics but here's a few shots of before, during and after.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Scout%20Rifle%20Project/1916MauserBefore.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Scout%20Rifle%20Project/1916MauserBefore.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Scout%20Rifle%20Project/IMG_0106.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Scout%20Rifle%20Project/IMG_0106.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Scout%20Rifle%20Project/Frontsightfull.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Scout%20Rifle%20Project/Frontsightfull.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Scout%20Rifle%20Project/Stockafter6.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Scout%20Rifle%20Project/Stockafter6.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Scout%20Rifle%20Project/Finished.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Scout%20Rifle%20Project/Finished.jpg.html)

Somewhere during the process I slugged the bore and to my amazement it restricted down to .305" about half way between the chamber and the crown! Long story short, lots of fire-lapping later, the barrel's now fine. The rifle shot amazingly well:

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Scout%20Rifle%20Project/FirstTarget-1.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Scout%20Rifle%20Project/FirstTarget-1.jpg.html)

100 yd. targets.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Scout%20Rifle%20Project/Target-mod.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Scout%20Rifle%20Project/Target-mod.jpg.html)

May be this will give other some ideas.

35W

[Frank46]

Now you got me thinking. Have a fairly nice 1937 marked VZ24 action and two barrels. One is off a persian 8mm carbine and has a cherry bore and the other if off a 1909 Argentine carbine also with a cherry bore. And have a bubba'd 98 mauser stock that should clean up well. Frank

[rbertalotto]

The first "Custom" rifle I ever built was on a M96....Used a real SS knife handle for the bolt, turned my own muzzle break, converted to cock on opening, drilled and tapped for scope, made my own scope blocks, replaced trigger with Dayton Traister, milled bolt for swing safety.......All work done on a small Smithy 3-1 machine.

http://public.fotki.com/Rbertalotto/things-that-go-bang/m-96_swedish_mauser/

[35 Whelen]

The first "Custom" rifle I ever built was on a M96....Used a real SS knife handle for the bolt, turned my own muzzle break, converted to cock on opening, drilled and tapped for scope, made my own scope blocks, replaced trigger with Dayton Traister, milled bolt for swing safety.......All work done on a small Smithy 3-1 machine.

http://public.fotki.com/Rbertalotto/things-that-go-bang/m-96_swedish_mauser/

Very nice job!

[nekshot]

nice gun, this is refreshing as I have a 95 I rebarreled all over my work bench right now!

[rbertalotto]

That 96 I built, using the factory, 100+ year old barrel is also a tack driver! I've shot many under 1" groups for 5 shots off the bench at 100yds.

The 6.5 X 55 is one heck of a great cartridge...........I also have a Winchester Model 70 Featherweight in the 6.5 X 55....Also a VERY accurate rifle!

[MBTcustom]

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but I gotta tell you that I wont build on Spanish mausers either SR or LR.
I just dont trust them, and many share my same view. Thats why they can be had so cheap.
Seems like every month there is somebody who asks me to do a build on a Spanish. Aint gonna happen.

Now, since you already have the rifle, and you have yout hat set to do this, at least take some good advice and dont run loads anywhere close to full pressure.

At this point, most people I tell this to start to, get defensive and start telling me that they have fired full pressure loads in their rifle, so it can obviously take it!
I just pick up a paper clip, straighten it, and then bend it.
I say "So like this paper clip could be bent without breaking? I bent it once and it took it no problem, so if it does it once, it must be good forever right?"
I straighten it, then bend it about ten more times and eventually it breaks in half.
"huh. Look at that. I guess if that was a rifle, you just blew your face off eh?"
A picture is worth 1000 words.

That's why I don't build on substandard actions. I don't want an action that's strong enough to take the pressure. I want an action that is strong enough to take double the pressure of the loads you intend to use, which most Mauser actions are capable of withstanding 100,000 PSI before they let go.

[mikeym1a]

After seeing pics of short barreled bolt actions on ar15.com, I'm kind of tempted to scope this rifle. I bought iron sights for it (and lost a screw already :|), but now I'm tempted to buy a bolt from brownells and weaver scope bases, if I can figure out which ones fit this small ring mauser.

I also don't want to pay $25 for brownells 4 oz of 3.5% nickel welding rod. Anyone have any good alternatives?

My machinist friend used bronze/phosphate, instead of Silver Solder. it's cheaper than the Silver, but still a long way from cheap. He said it was nearly as strong.

[rbertalotto]

[QUOTE]I also don't want to pay $25 for brownells 4 oz of 3.5% nickel welding rod. Anyone have any good alternatives?/QUOTE]

Have it TIG welded. If done correctly and blended after, it looks [perfect and will NEVER break off.

[UBER7MM]

RCAV8R.

DavidHeart had the same question last week, Bolt Forging vs. TIG welding on a new handle.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?243884-Mauser-Bolt-Bending

I hope this helps.

[35 Whelen]

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but I gotta tell you that I wont build on Spanish mausers either SR or LR.
I just dont trust them, and many share my same view. Thats why they can be had so cheap.
Seems like every month there is somebody who asks me to do a build on a Spanish. Aint gonna happen.

Now, since you already have the rifle, and you have yout hat set to do this, at least take some good advice and dont run loads anywhere close to full pressure.

At this point, most people I tell this to start to, get defensive and start telling me that they have fired full pressure loads in their rifle, so it can obviously take it!
I just pick up a paper clip, straighten it, and then bend it.
I say "So like this paper clip could be bent without breaking? I bent it once and it took it no problem, so if it does it once, it must be good forever right?"
I straighten it, then bend it about ten more times and eventually it breaks in half.
"huh. Look at that. I guess if that was a rifle, you just blew your face off eh?"
A picture is worth 1000 words.

That's why I don't build on substandard actions. I don't want an action that's strong enough to take the pressure. I want an action that is strong enough to take double the pressure of the loads you intend to use, which most Mauser actions are capable of withstanding 100,000 PSI before they let go.

Well, the first thing to understand is this rifle is not a "build", it's a conversion. If I used the term "build" in my post, I was in error. Original stock, original , barrel, etc. I've built and watched my Dad build a few rifles in my 50 years and they've always been on actions such as a VZ24, 1910 Mexican, Peruvian, etc., in other words, '98 Mausers or variations thereof. Second, you're not raining on my parade because every internet nanny who's seen this rifle over the last 2 1/2 has told me I was going to die, I was irresponsible, I was going to hurt someone and one even said I didn't really love my wife because I allowed her to shoot this rifle, so I'm used to it. Yet not a single person has ever produced one shred of evidence of one of these rifles blowing up or hurting someone. Not to mention, if this had happened, I'm sure Samco Global, the importer/seller/distributor, would immediately cease to make them available.
Also, I contacted Samco Global and inquired to the strength of the actions. I received a prompt response with an article attached in which was detailed the fact that a sample of these rifles had been sent to H.P. White Laboratories for testing. Long story short, they finally destroyed one of the rifles at 98,000 psi. I've attached the article:

107507

That said, I do understand and appreciate the concern. This rifle is, just like mine, a utility rifle. As such, it will never be loaded with anything but relatively mild 150 gr. loads. It isn't a deer rifle, a prairie dog rifle, an elk rifle, nor a brown bear rifle. It's just a handy utility rifle. Fact is, mine has killed a half-dozen deer with cast bullet loads as I'm sure this one will.

35W

[enfield]

Why do people insist on chopping up original full length stocks to "sporterize" a military rifle, theres plenty of them out there all hacked up, why not use one of them.

[MBTcustom]

Well, the first thing to understand is this rifle is not a "build", it's a conversion. If I used the term "build" in my post, I was in error. Original stock, original , barrel, etc. I've built and watched my Dad build a few rifles in my 50 years and they've always been on actions such as a VZ24, 1910 Mexican, Peruvian, etc., in other words, '98 Mausers or variations thereof. Second, you're not raining on my parade because every internet nanny who's seen this rifle over the last 2 1/2 has told me I was going to die, I was irresponsible, I was going to hurt someone and one even said I didn't really love my wife because I allowed her to shoot this rifle, so I'm used to it. Yet not a single person has ever produced one shred of evidence of one of these rifles blowing up or hurting someone. Not to mention, if this had happened, I'm sure Samco Global, the importer/seller/distributor, would immediately cease to make them available.
Also, I contacted Samco Global and inquired to the strength of the actions. I received a prompt response with an article attached in which was detailed the fact that a sample of these rifles had been sent to H.P. White Laboratories for testing. Long story short, they finally destroyed one of the rifles at 98,000 psi. I've attached the article:

107507

That said, I do understand and appreciate the concern. This rifle is, just like mine, a utility rifle. As such, it will never be loaded with anything but relatively mild 150 gr. loads. It isn't a deer rifle, a prairie dog rifle, an elk rifle, nor a brown bear rifle. It's just a handy utility rifle. Fact is, mine has killed a half-dozen deer with cast bullet loads as I'm sure this one will.

35W

I really feel that I should apologize. I wasn't trying to be nearly as condescending or arrogant as I may have come across. I was only concerned for peoples safety, and there have been so many times that I would have gotten in serious trouble had I turned a single screw on the rifle a prospective client handed me.
It get's you worried, and it's easy to come across as being over the top on safety. It just get's drilled into your head after a while.

Also, I was addressing the OP as he has a rifle that was chambered in 308, which gives me the heeby jeebies.

The truth is, it's your rifle, it's a free country, and if they were really all that bad, nobody would own them.

[35 Whelen]

No apology needed! I knew what you were getting at. ;)

35W

[KJC402]

Ran across this thread looking for something else.

I used the original military stock, an M-1 carbine front sight, a Williams receiver sight, an XS Systems Scout scope mount and finished off with a good ol' home Parkerizing. I won't go into great detail with pics but here's a few shots of before, during and after.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Scout%20Rifle%20Project/Frontsightfull.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Scout%20Rifle%20Project/Frontsightfull.jpg.html)

May be this will give other some ideas.

35W

I know I am a little late to this post, but I was wondering how you did the M1 Carbine front sight on the Spanish 1916? My oldest boy is turning one into a scout rifle and thought the M1 Carbine sight idea was great.

[35 Whelen]

I split the bottom of the sight band and spread it out so it slip over the muzzle, then soldered it into place.

35W

[KJC402]

Thanks for the info :)

[Texas by God]

I like my 1916 that I rebarreled to 30-30 because I had a good barrel lying around. No pressure worries here at all. Your 1916 scouts are cool and that's great accuracy from that old barrel.
Best, Thomas.

[KCSO]

I hate to admit it but Goodsteel is right OVIDO means soft in Spanish. These rifles were made for 45000 psi loads and no way should be fed a diet of 55000 308's. If I have to rebarrel one I go for the older lower pressure rounds like 6.5 or 7mm and issue a useless warning with each gun.

[Larry Gibson]

From the horses mouth.....the Spanish manual for the rifle and the ammunition to be used in it by them.

200874200875200876200877

I've also done considerable pressure testing (Oehler M43 PBL) of 7.62 NATO and non NATO spec ammunition along with quite a bit of .308W commercial ammunition. The pressures of the 7.62 NATO spec and commercial .308W ammunitions overlap. It would be difficult to say with any certainty which is "hotter". They both run from the low 50K psi up to 60K psi. Most of the older foreign non NATO spec ammunition is of lower psi for use in G3s and FALs. The exception is the newer US made M118SB and M118LR which is non NATO spec because they exceed the NATO specified bullet weight, bullet type and MAP.

Additionally I have tested numerous milsurp lots of foreign 7x57 including Spanish 7x57 made as far back as 1918. The psi generated by the milsurp 7x57 as tested in a Chilean M95 rifle fall with in the same psi range as the 7.62 NATO spec and .308W commercial ammunition.

[Larry Gibson]

Now before someone comes back with the "well they made a low powered CETME cartridge for use in these rifles" understand that myth has also been busted. Truth is the Spanish did not develop that ammunition for use in the FR7 and FR8s. The "CETME" ammunition was developed as a stop gap to function reliably in the unfluted CETME rifles. The "CETME" ammunition did not generate lower psi, it simply had a different time/pressure curve. Actually the psi MAP of the "CETME" ammunition os higher than most all the 7.62 NATP spec, .308W commercial ammunition and 7x57 milsurp ammunition tested. Note the actual tested psi MAP of the CETME ammunition is 60,000. I have posted all the test results before so a search of various related threads should provide more detailed test information.

200878200879

Basically the concept that the "rifle was designed only for 45,000 psi"......is incorrect. Comparing CUP psi measurement of "45,000" to Transducer/strain gauge is also incorrect because it is an apples to oranges comparison and is misleading.

The OP has a fine "sporter" scout rifle. I suggest he use his own loads that do not exceed 50,000 CUP or 60,000 psi that are listed in loading manuals. The Lyman #49 reloading manual would be a good reference. The OPs load with 748 is a good one for his FR7. However the 47 gr H4895 load is probably too much as it will be 62K psi +. Dropping back to 44.5 gr H4895 under a 150 gr jacketed bullet brings it back down to just under 50K psi.

Note the SAAMI MAP for the .308W is 62,000 psi (transducer/strain gauge). Most .308W commercial ammunition does not generate that psi but some does. Thus I suggest the OP avoid commercial .308W because he won't know which does. All the milsurp 7.62 NATO spec and non spec ammunition I have tested generates less than 60K psi. I would suggest the OP avoid any 7.62 NATO newer than 1990.

[RoyEllis]

I hate to admit it but Goodsteel is right OVIDO means soft in Spanish. These rifles were made for 45000 psi loads and no way should be fed a diet of 55000 308's. If I have to rebarrel one I go for the older lower pressure rounds like 6.5 or 7mm and issue a useless warning with each gun.
Sorry, Ovido is a Spanish name meaning "one who is even tempered and jovial".....Oviedo (as related to the rifles in question) refers to Oviedo Arsenal in the city of Oviedo, Spain. Soft in spanish is, depending on usage, suave, tenue, blando or dulce.
I haven't any firm empirical data to fully prove it but my hypothesis behind the "it's weak and will blow up" rep these rifles have gotten is that it's not a matter of weak material but more a matter of poor workmanship @ arsenal refurb, ie excessive headspace, uneven lug bearing surfaces and other assorted gunsmithing atrocities due to mix & match of parts or using defective parts. As long as it would feed and fire once.....crate it up & ship it out was probably the motto used.
Considering the Spaniards view of "those peasant Mexicans" in that time period, as well as the financial status of Mexico, quality was not ordered nor paid for. Case in point....recent imported Moisin Nagants, you would sort through 5 crates just to find 2 or 3 rifles in fairly decent shape, worthy of actually paying for, the rest were pretty sadly abused.

[Red Elk]

I firmly agree with the others who have stated that this rifle should not be used with .308 chambering.
I think the SR mausers are fine for lower pressure cartridges, but .308 based cartridges are not lower pressure. It is just not worth the risk, to you or someone down the line who may inadvertently shove a full pressure round in the rifle.
They just were never designed for such use.
Even shooting high pressure 7x57 or 6.5 x55 rounds could result in a tragedy you do now desire.
While you can shoot low pressure loads for these cartridges without damage, loading them up will result in problems.
Rebarreling to .250 Savage, 7.62x39, .300 Savage or .35 Remington is a better idea. Keep the pressure within specs, and you are in much safer territory.
There are loads for 7x57 or 6.5x55 which can be used, if you keep them within the proper pressure limits, but the chances that someone down the road will install a high pressure round in the rifle are not worth the risk.
Any of the lower pressure rounds I have mentioned will take game up to and including elk, with proper shot placement. The need to increase power does not outweigh the need to be safe in what you are doing.
Current theory would tell you that you need the maximum amount of power to do what is to be done. This is simply not true, and many years of experience has shown that accuracy beats power in normal hunting situations.
Keep it within reason, and it will do all you need.
re

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I've owned two of these Spanish 1916 mausers that were arsenal reworked to 7.62nato.

I believed the Myth that these were made for the lower pressure 7.62 CETME...Thank You Larry for explaining in great detail how that was incorrect in more than one angle.

The one annual gunshow I have a table at, my table neighbor is seemingly quite the Mauser expert. He told me many times not to worry too much about the strength of a 1916, but he said don't push it either...Now he never went into detail, like Larry does above, so I never really knew if I should load over 45Kpsi, so I never did.

BUT, the reason I am taking the time to post, If you have a 1916 with Original Bolt, have the bolt checked out...
Both of my 1916's, with different markings, one with matching Bolt(a civil guard example) and the other non-matching...BUT both Bolts had an eroded (enlarged) firing pin hole in the bolt face...To me, the bolt face near the primer hole had pock marks, like someone had peened that area with a center punch, my Mauser expert friend told me that's how they erode. He also told me to NOT trust those bolts, and he said the 1916 bolts were notoriously soft and subject to eroding. He swapped out the bolt body's for me, with some German made equivalent ones.