Need .308 200gr H4895 starting load

[Colorado4wheel]

Anyone have a good starting point for my M1A

[Wayne S]

Not with H 4895, but with AA 2230 & H 335 and the RCBS 200 Sil.

[WILCO]

Anyone have a good starting point for my M1A

Manual???????

[Colorado4wheel]

Manual???????


If it was in my manuals I wouldn't be asking.

[tomme boy]

28gr 1/2gr dacron.

[Wayne S]

I started with 21.0 AA 2230 with the 200 gn RCBS Sil. & 311299 cast from WW & water dropped.
The RCBS drops at .310 and the 311299 was lubed & sized .311
Cycling was slow.

[HARRYMPOPE]

29g just cycles my FN FAL and Saiga 308.NO filler and good with 160 to 200g bullets.About 2 MOA accuracy with not alot of work.

George

[WILCO]

If it was in my manuals I wouldn't be asking.

Then you need another manual.
It's readily listed here, in "Modern Reloading" by Richard Lee.

[WILCO]

Also, with 10 minutes of google, I was able to find some more H4895 load data using a 200 gr. bullet. Just saying. I believe it's best to do the research before accepting random loads with a given powder.

[Colorado4wheel]

Then you need another manual.
It's readily listed here, in "Modern Reloading" by Richard Lee.

I have that manual. I will look again.

[HARRYMPOPE]

Not many manuals have starting loads for operating 308 gas guns and cast bullets WILCO.Asking here is a not a bad place to start.I rarely refer to load manuals any longer.I know the basic ranges for the cartridges i shoot with low to mid range cast bullet stuff with the 4 or 5 powders i use.I have 3 Little Dandy's set up with charges i make work with many of them.I do it reverse of others.I pick a power charge and see hat i can get it to shoot in..I wont give out loads data of the top of my head to others though.

George

[Larry Gibson]

28gr 1/2gr dacron.

That's the right answer or if you want start at 26 gr and work up........no sense re-inventing the wheel.

Larry Gibson

[Colorado4wheel]

Then you need another manual.
It's readily listed here, in "Modern Reloading" by Richard Lee.

There is no Lead 200gr in my 2ñd edition. Jacketed yes. 38gr starting. I knew that was way to high. I really didn't appreciate your "get a manual" comment as I am a little beyond the need for a lecture from you. Then to have you tell me to use Dr. Google instead is even sillier. I trust the people on this forum way more then Dr. Google. All I wanted was a starting load for lead in a M1A. Something that didn't work the action so that I could work it up to a decent point that did work the action before a made a bigger batch to fine tune it and chrono. I only trust enough to use this as a partial verification of how low I can start. Not how I I can ultimately push it.

[WILCO]

There is no Lead 200gr in my 2ñd edition. Jacketed yes. 38gr starting. I knew that was way to high….

Page 147 of Modern Reloading, 2nd edition.
Listed under the following: “.308 Winchester Cast Bullet Loads”.



I really didn't appreciate your "get a manual" comment as I am a little beyond the need for a lecture from you.

I’m not interested in lecturing. I only wish to educate.
Getting another manual was mentioned because the pertinent information is listed in the title I referenced.


Then to have you tell me to use Dr. Google instead is even sillier. I trust the people on this forum way more then Dr. Google.

Google was mentioned because it can lead you right to the source of solid reputable information from the manufactures. Like this link here:

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

While the good folks of Castboolits.com know a great many things, they are not the manufactures of powders. You’re much better off trusting the likes of Hodgon, IMR and Winchester when seeking load data.


There is no Lead 200gr in my 2ñd edition. Jacketed yes. 38gr starting. I knew that was way to high….

It really doesn’t matter if it’s full metal jacket data, because if you read your Modern Reloading, 2nd Edition thoroughly, you would know that on page 157, it tells how to safely calculate reduced loads for lead bullets. The 1st Edition has a formula to reduce powders using simple high school math. Also, the LEE Shooter program has the ability to do this, though it works best with Windows XP.




All I wanted was a starting load for lead in a M1A. Something that didn't work the action so that I could work it up to a decent point that did work the action before I made a bigger batch to fine tune it and chrono. I only trust enough to use this as a partial verification of how low I can start. Not how I can ultimately push it.

You cannot walk before you crawl. It’s dangerous to endeavor a task without fully understanding the parameters of the specific load data and powder to be reduced.

One thread reply mentioned Dacron. What do you know of “Fillers”?



Not many manuals have starting loads for operating 308 gas guns and cast bullets.

You have a valid point George, and as I’ve mentioned before, I’m not interested in lecturing. I only wish to educate. I’m a major proponent of studying manuals and gaining a solid foundation of the basics before one attempts to go forward with the more technical tasks in load development. As we have seen in this thread, the OP is searching for load data, took issue with my replies and ended up having the answers he sought all along. His only roadblock to success was his failure to read and comprehend the information he has at his disposal. That is both disheartening and scary, as it seems to be the more recent trend with a whole new batch of “Reloaders” coming on scene.

Colorado4wheel, best wishes as you go forward.

[Colorado4wheel]

The internet site from Hodgon gives 35.5gr at 2250 fps.

I did not expect Lee to have a separate LEAD only data section of their manual. That was helpful thanks for pointing that out. I read that manual 6 years ago and remember his comments but forgot his having that data in the earlier part of the book. His comments are one reason I even considered loading lead in my m1a.

The rest of your post is pure "I know better then you and your wasting my time by posting on this forum and not finding the answer on your own" You may not think that is how you come across but it surely is in my opinion and your comments could have prevented other good folks from helping me. Forums are meant to be helpful not "Learn how to search you idiot". What I wanted (and got)was the starting load some people used that was really light in the m1a. Something that was below most book and didn't really run the gun. I had researched and thought it would be in the high 20gr range but now I know I will start even a little lower.

Feel 100% free to put me on your ignore list.

[WILCO]

The internet site from Hodgon gives 35.5gr at 2250 fps.

You completely missed my point about reducing full metal jacket loads to cast boolit velocities and pressures.

That's okay though, maybe somebody else will read this thread and go "AAAAAaaaaggghhhh, that's what I can do".



The rest of your post is pure "I know better then you and your wasting my time by posting on this forum and not finding the answer on your own" Feel 100% free to put me on your ignore list.

Sorry you took my information that way. I don't have an ignore list.
Best wishes as you move forward. [smilie=s:

[w5pv]

I use 40grains of 4831 under a gas checked 200 grain lead boolit.These were cast in a Lyman mold that drops them at .311. My old 742 jamamatic.3006 shoots them less than a size of a quarter at 75 yards.I don't have a chronograph but estimate them around 1850 to 2000 fps.The old gal functions good and no signs of high pressure and the recoil is not heavy.

[Larry Gibson]

Read posts #5 and 12 again; that is the answer for H4895 and a starting load under a 200 gr cast bullet for the M1A in 7.62 NATO.

Larry Gibson

[madsenshooter]

When using data from Lee's book, one should bear in mind that he used data for jacketed bullets to extrapolate the reduced loads from. Expect lower pressures and higher velocities than what he shows when loading with cast.

[Colorado4wheel]

Read posts #5 and 12 again; that is the answer for H4895 and a starting load under a 200 gr cast bullet for the M1A in 7.62 NATO.

Larry Gibson

Got it. I was listening when you said that. I am going to start at 25 grs just to be well below and work it up to where it cycles the action. Once I find that spot I will load a larger amount of test ammo for accuracy and continued testing. First thing for me to find is what point the action becomes effective. Thanks for your help.


When using data from Lee's book, one should bear in mind that he used data for jacketed bullets to extrapolate the reduced loads from. Expect lower pressures and higher velocities than what he shows when loading with cast.

Interesting. I will know more on the second batch when I pull out the chrono.

[Colorado4wheel]

You completely missed my point about reducing full metal jacket loads to cast boolit velocities and pressures.

[smilie=s:

I already knew that point. That was not the question I was asking so I didn't care. I wanted to know the starting point for a M1A that would be below where the gun works. That was all I wanted. I can manage the rest on my own for now. This is a learning process for me but that is all I need/wanted at this time. Trying to avoid too many trips to the range and too many test bullets that are wasted primers and powder.

[WILCO]

This is a learning process for me but that is all I need/wanted at this time. Trying to avoid too many trips to the range and too many test bullets that are wasted primers and powder.

There are no shortcuts in load development. A major part of load development is reading, studying and learning the processes. When you started out, you didn't have a min. or max. load listing for the powder of choice. How do you know where to go from there? You basicly said "Give me......" and are ready to start running. There is much more to cast boolit load development than that. You still have to deal with boolit alloy BHN, lubes and a host of other factors. Like I said before, best wishes as you go forward.

[Colorado4wheel]

Jeez. Just because I didn't mention it doesn't mean I don't know about it as part of.the process. Let it go.

[WILCO]

Jeez. Just because I didn't mention it doesn't mean I don't know about it as part of.the process. Let it go.

Duly noted. Just FYI, my replies aren't only intended for you, but also for others to learn from as they read and study the topics in the forum, during their quest for knowledge. [smilie=s:

[Colorado4wheel]

Truly amazing.

[gandydancer]

I forgot the question???????? :shock:

[Colorado4wheel]

I forgot the question???????? :shock:

What was a good starting point for a 200 gr lead bullet in 308. I have already loaded the first test batch. As soon as I can make it to the range I will see how they do.

[Mooseman]

Guys , if you ask a question and get a response or several there is no sense in getting mad at someone giving advice or pointing you in the right direction irregardless of how its done. Questions and answers are what makes this forum operate. There is info here and in manuals and on searches all over the internet so i suggest you use all the resources at your disposal to come up with a solution to your query.
Lets keep it civil...
Rich
Rich

[sthwestvictoria]

There is no Lead 200gr in my 2ñd edition. Jacketed yes. 38gr starting. I knew that was way to high.
One of the beautiful things about using H4895 (AR2206H for us Australians - it is made here) is there are two safe ways of reducing it. The Lee 1grain reduction factor which gets you ballpark.
The other safe factory suggestion is from Hodgdon - they state it is safe to reduce any max load for jacketed by up to 60% of that load. For information on this google hodgdon youth loads. This only applys to H4895! So two safe ways to use reduced H4895 jacketed data for cast. I have done this with 30-30 and 35 whelen when i could not find cast data but only jacketed.

[Colorado4wheel]

I fired them today. From 24gr to 31 gr. Had a couple failures below 27gr. But only 2 out of about 30. I was not shooting at a real range so I had a horrible shooting position. I will test for accuracy later. To me 27gr is a good starting point. It ejected those rounds like normal and seem more like a real rifle at that point. Below that was really soft and had an occasional one that didn't seem to seal the chamber well and created a really black case.
ZERO leading. No issues with the gas port either. For round one I am pleased. Now time to really get to work and test some more.

[sthwestvictoria]

A good starting point. I did find H4895 position sensitive a lower loadings(this was the more voluminous 35 whelen case). I don't know enough to use dacron so I just kept increasing the charge until until groups started to shrink. I don't recall having this problem with the 30-30. Now I have a chronograph and I can check for velocity fluctuations.

[Bull Shoals]

Hope this helps. I am using 43 gr IMR 4895 under a 200 gr Lyman 311335 GC cast of 3 to 1 WW & lino. Win LR primers, Federal brass, and 2.860 OAL. This is fired in a Rem 700VS 308 w/ 26" bull bbl. Chrono vel is 1858 fps at 843 ' elevation. The 100 yard groups are 1 3/16 for 7 shots.

[tomme boy]

You need to check your chrono. That should be about 2400fps.

[303Guy]

Can a chrono be that far out? I've had what seemed like really low readings, that when other readings were believable, like 22lr subsonic clocking 1050 fps repeatedly.

I've just learned about H4895 (AR2206H to us).

[Larry Gibson]

I am assuming there is a mistake on Bull Shoals load; 43 gr IMR 4895 in a .308W case is case capacity and is probably a heavy overload for a 200 gr bullet, even a cast one. Using 28 - 32 gr IMR 4895 with or even w/o a Dacron filler will give the said 1858 fps out of a 26" barrel.

Larry Gibson

[Bull Shoals]

Larry, Thanks for keeping me on my toes. You are right, after rechecking my data I found it was 34 gr not 43. I guess at 72 I am a little cross-eyed.

[Larry Gibson]

Larry, Thanks for keeping me on my toes. You are right, after rechecking my data I found it was 34 gr not 43. I guess at 72 I am a little cross-eyed.

Bull

No problem, happens to all of us. ........

Larry Gibson