Are gas-checks needed for .44mag?

[hogstad7]

Do you think gaschecks are needed for the .44mag? I am considering to buy a NOE 429421 245gr swc mold. How fast can I shoot the bullet without leading problems?

[44man]

No. Adjust alloy to keep the boolit from skidding the rifling. You can then shoot as fast as the .44 can get to.

[hogstad7]

I will use WW. Do you think I should waterdrop them?
What lube would you recommend? I have a Lyman 450 without heat. I am considering "Jake`s 50/50" lube.

[runfiverun]

i don't waterdrop my 44's, i'm pretty sure 44 man does.
jakes lubes are fair, there are other options out there including [our own] white label lube [member here]
pick a place to start and begin working up from there.

[mdi]

One of my favorite bullets is Lyman 429421, no gas check. I have 5 .44 Magnums and I shoot this bullet in four of them. I either lube my wheel weight, air cooled bullets with Lar's Carnuba Red or my Speed green. As important as alloy, lube, and load are, I think proper bullet size is most important. I like to size my bullets to the same diameter as the cylinder throats of my revolvers (S&W, Ruger, and Dan Wesson). I very rarely get leading and have some pretty accurate loads...

[Mal Paso]

I've pushed water dropped to 1600 fps and 1500 fps is my normal top end. Never used gas checks. Glen Fryxell's lube with a little more beeswax.

[Bigslug]

No problems with that same mold at 1400fps using WW+2% tin, 2400 powder, and Ben's Red lube. FYI - you'll get about 255 grains with the solid mold, 235 with the hollow point pins installed. Nice mold!

[44man]

I water drop because air cooled will give me some fliers. Are they bad? NO! I use Felix lube. White Label is also good. Glen makes great stuff and CR will work. The best bang for the buck is White Label lubes if you don't make your own.
What you don't want in the revolver are slippery lubes that ruin case tension, need grip.

[1bluehorse]

I water drop because air cooled will give me some fliers. Are they bad? NO! I use Felix lube. White Label is also good. Glen makes great stuff and CR will work. The best bang for the buck is White Label lubes if you don't make your own.
What you don't want in the revolver are slippery lubes that ruin case tension, need grip.



44 man, do you water drop for all loads or just "top end" loads...and if for all, do you find any advantage (or disadvantage) in the harder bullet for mid range....or lighter loads..?

[Larry Gibson]

No GCs are not needed unless you want top end magnum level loads (1350 - 1450 fps from 6" barreled revolvers or 1500+ fps from Contenders) with softer alloy that will expand......then GCs are needed. I suggest adding 2% tin to your COWWs and then mix at 50/50 with lead and AC the bullets. A 16-1 lead - tin alloy is also and excellent one for expansion a magnum level revolver velocities. Both will give excellent and improved terminal effectiveness over the harder cast same bullet. All of my 32 H&R, 357 mag, 41 mag, 44 Mag and heavy 45 Colt loads used for hunting are with such softer cast GC'd bullets and are usually HP'd for further effectiveness. Yes I also have PB'd moulds for all those and cast them harder and drive to magnum velocities (generally the same loads) that I use for practice. Over the years my "fun" loads have become lighter weight cast with much lower charges of fast burning powders at lower velocity levels. I don't need to bust dirt clods, rocks, pine cones or even small game with my magnum handguns like I thought I used too.......

[hogstad7]

Thanks for the answers so far. White Label Lube looks good, but I have no clue which one I should choose. BAC, 2500 or 50/50? In bags or tubes?

Can I use my RCBS or Lyman handles on a 4/5 cavity NOE mold?

[44man]

44 man, do you water drop for all loads or just "top end" loads...and if for all, do you find any advantage (or disadvantage) in the harder bullet for mid range....or lighter loads..?
Actually, faster powders that peak sooner need harder lead. Sounds strange! Even though total pressures are lower, it depends where peak is.
This can only be worked out by you and your gun.
Larry is correct that the softer lead needs the GC to grip the rifling. But real soft lead with "light" loads also need them. That was the original purpose after all, along with the zinc washer on the base, can't remember---Harvey "K" check or something.
Back in the day soft lead was shot. Elmer added a lot of tin for grip. Might have been Thompson that designed the GC, escapes me. All was to shoot the softer lead. Slowest revolver powder was 2400. But Bullseye, etc was shot a lot and leading problems were rampant.
Harder lead is fairly recent in time.
Even after jacketed bullets came out to solve the problem, many thought soft lead was OK in the handgun. I have tried to make lead equal jacketed in the revolver. That means harder.
Understand the GC and it's limits, it can also fail because you need the lead to help stop skid before the check is reached.

[bosterr]

Just today I chronographed my 8 3/8" S&W and my TC Contender 12" MGM .44 mags. The boolit is the Saeco 240 gr.TC that weighs out to 246 gr. Powder is 18.0 gr. WC820. The revolver clocked at 1350 fps average over 6 shots and the Contender clocked at 1455 average. This is with WD 50/50 WW/pure lead. Lube is half Thompson's Blue Angel and half 50-50 alox beeswax (because I have a lifetime supply). NO LEADING! 2 more gr. of powder would probably give me another 50 fps, but I don't want to beat the revolver to death. hogstat7, how fast do you want to go?

[hogstad7]

Most of my loads will have a powerfactor around 300. (275 is the lower limit in magnum handgun competitions here). But I want the ability to crank it up for some pure fun.
I have a 7,5" Ruger Redhawk btw.

[Wally]

I shoot a lot of .44 Magnums with cast bullets. I have three Lyman molds that take GCs (429215, 429244, 429640). Most of the time I use non-GC type bullets but I have proven in my Mo. 29, Ruger SBHK, & with a USRA 94AE that GC'd bullest are more accurate. IMHO it is due to the "perfect" flat base on them vs a PB bullet that has imperfects by the sprue cut-off area. Also, all lead bullets lead up a barrel, but some barrels lead up more than others. I have proved this using an Outers Foul Out Machine OFOM. Even with visually clean looking barrels, lead is removed by the OFOM. Now I doubt a small amount of leading in the barrel makes it less accurate..but a GC'd bullet typically leads less, if at all. Also, shooting at 25 yards I find the accuracy difference between say a Keith 250 grain and a 429244 255 grain Keith like GC bullets is almost non-existent, but at longer ranges the GC bullet will be.

[Lead Fred]

I only have one 44 mag mold and its a plain base 200 gr.

Does the hand cannon and lever just fine

[Outpost75]

I'm not sure which powders are available to you, but I have had fine results using wheelweight metal, cast normally, without quenching, using the Saeco #441, 260-grain Keith style semi-wadcutter with 8 grains of Bullseye pistol powder, for 1080 fps from my 5-1/2" Ruger Blackhawk, or 1250 fps from my H&R Handi-Rifle. This load is very accurate, pleasant to shoot, and shoots clear through deer or boar from any angle. My hunting buddy in Italy uses 10 grains of Tecna Red or N320 in his Marlin Guide gun with similar results.

[Cherokee]

I have a load for my Redhawk 7.5" that clock 1500 fps using 2/3/95 alloy, air cooled, for the 429421 (no gas check). Very accurate and no leading using Lars CR red.

[MtGun44]

No need for GCs. I have had good results with 8 BHN and they will expand at mag velocities
with a HP.

Bill

[hogstad7]

I am using Vihtavouri N110.

[Lloyd Smale]

i too am in the camp that although not really needed there usually more accurate or at least easier to do load developement to find a accurate load. they are also real nice when pushing soft lead like in hps to high velocitys. But like others if leading is your only consern a good gun can get by without them.

[Shiloh]

I've shot both .44 mags with both checked and non checked style boolits. Been a while, but IIRC the checked boolits were driven a lot faster with the same alloy.

Shiloh

[Blammer]

YES YOU NEED GC'S!
wanna buy some GC's?

lol

seriously, you can get all you need with accruacy and velicity in a 44 without GC's.

[Baryngyl]

I have shot the 310gr LEE bullet 90858 with out a GC on it (cast from ACWW, tumble lubed with LLA, unsized), I was using H110 and pushing it all the way to the max load listed, it shot good but did leave a tiny bit of leading.



Michael Grace

[fredj338]

I have removed most of the gc form my 44 molds, just not needed for most handgun vel. Match the vel to alloy, it will be fine. I can run as soft as 25-1 to 1200fps+ w/o any appreciable leading. Fit & alloy, to 1500fps or so IME.

[MtGun44]

I've had pretty much the same results as fred338.

Bill

[onehousecat]

I used my SBH in Silhouette either with a stout load of 2400, or H110. Either one would turn over the rams at 200 meters. My mold was a plain based 240 gr one that cast bullets a bit heavier due to the alloy being WW with a bit of solder to add some tin. I always water dropped the bullets, just for the convenience. The extra hardness is just a bonus, not my sole reason for water dropping.

[MT Gianni]

My Rossi 92 in 44 mag shot better with gc than with a pb boolit.

[44man]

Something I have noticed when testing things and boolits is the design. Most PB boolits have one big GG. I started making mine with more grooves, larger bore boolits will have 3 that carry about the same as 1 big one. Another thing I got away from, purely by accident, is the thick base band because I want to fit another GG.
I worried about it on my .475 because I was not measuring anything plunging the cutter. Base came out .080" thick if I remember, ran out of boolits to measure. First 5 shot groups at 50 yards made 1/2" and I have done it at 100 plus hitting a 6" swinger at 400 yards.
I could not leave that go so I cut my .500 JRH boolit the same. It shoots the same.
I can't explain it either! I kept reading about boolit NEEDS and was worried at first.
Recovered boolits show skid has stopped before reaching the base. These boolits are shot very hot with my 440 gr and 420 gr reaching 1350 fps, any more will stick brass.
I remember Elmer complaining about a change Lyman made to his GG, makes me wonder???
Some of what my revolvers do is due to luck and accidents, never once drew a boolit on paper!

[Mal Paso]

I believe one of Elmer's concerns was allowing space for the lead displaced by the lands in the barrel. My guess would be to reduce bullet distortion. I've seen bullet bases distorted by displaced lead and it likely affects the exit from the barrel, especially with slow powders.

[Char-Gar]

If everything is right, there is no need for gas checks in the 44 Magnum round. If everything isn't right, gas checks can save the day and compensate.

[Aunegl]

With my gun, my loads and my results, gas checks save the day.

[Larry Gibson]

I don't use GCs to "save the day". I use GCs for true magnum level velocities with soft cast handgun bullets for better accuracy at those magnum velocities and much better terminal effects on game. Yes, I too can load PB cast to magnum velocity but they will not be as effective; kill yes but not as quickly as the expanding softer cast.

Larry Gibson