S&W M21-4's?? [Archive]

View Full Version : S&W M21-4's??

Poohgyrr

10-25-2007, 01:07 PM

OK,

We have a thread going about .44 Specials, but I want to ask about Smith's M21-4 in particular.

Ay of you guys already have, or shoot, one of these? With or without the gold on the side.

How are they in general, or with any special loads?

And I'm thinking the standard length cylinder could be useful with cast, like Skeeter's old load using .38 Special brass in his .357s.....

Thanks...........

45 2.1

10-25-2007, 01:24 PM

We have a thread going about .44 Specials, but I want to ask about Smith's M21-4 in particular.
Ay of you guys already have, or shoot, one of these? With or without the gold on the side.

How are they in general, or with any special loads?
I have a couple and have shot a friends Thunder Ranch also. All three have fixed sights and seem to be regulated for a 200 gr. boolit. The normal 240 gr. boolits shoot high for me. With a 200 gr. boolit, they are pretty accurate and are well regulated. You might have to get a custom set of grips to fit your hand as not all variations come with the larger Thunder Ranch grips, which are ok but could be better. A very interesting 44 special.

And I'm thinking the standard length cylinder could be useful with cast, like Skeeter's old load using .38 Special brass in his .357s.....

JMax

10-25-2007, 02:29 PM

I have one with JM grips as my big hands don't fit the originals well. I use a 240 gr SWC with 4.4 gr of WW231 and it hits at point of aim. I did flatten and run a 40LPI checkering file on the half moon front sight to aid the sight picture.

Dale53

10-25-2007, 06:40 PM

I'm not very much help here. It has been a LONG time since I shot one of the original 21's. However, I DO have three .44 Special handguns (6" Model 24, 6" Model 624, adn 4" Model 624). These "N" frame .44 Specials are indeed SPECIAL and have a permanent place in my "kit". A good .44 Special with a "Skeeter" load is a most fortuitous combination for many things.

Dale53

StrawHat

10-26-2007, 09:07 AM

Since my CRAFTS has kicked in today, please be gentle.

I well remember the writings of Skeeter and even remember his load with the 358156 bullet.

What was his 44 Special load?

If I am the only one who has forgotten, oh well.

(This is why when I reload I always check my recipes!)

45 2.1

10-26-2007, 09:09 AM

I well remember the writings of Skeeter and even remember his load with the 358156 bullet.

What was his 44 Special load?

In the 44 Special, it was the Lyman 429421 over 7.5 gr. of Unique.

Poohgyrr

10-26-2007, 10:58 AM

I miss Skeeter's articles, but he is not forgotten. Picked up 2K pieces of 1X .38brass ($15!!) and 500 new .44 Special brass a while back for his loads.

Then I stopped in at a local shop to check ammo prices and found a new Special at $200 - $250 lower than usual price. Twice before I've said "no" when this happened to me and I've been kicking myself.......

This time I happen to have a set of grips just waiting for a good N frame......

[smilie=1:

Dutch4122

10-27-2007, 08:00 AM

I continue to haunt Gunbroker and Auction Arms and drooling over these 21-4's.

Would really like to see a Model 621-4 put out by Smith & Wesson.

At any rate I figure it's just a matter of time before I give in. After all, the only thing standing in my way is money![smilie=b:

Dale53

10-27-2007, 12:57 PM

I am NOT much enamored of fixed sighted revolvers. I MUCH prefer adjustable sighted revolvers. I shoot more than one bullet weight and normally, you will have to adjust sights when changing weights.

I LOVE my .44 Specials but have no desire for a fixed sighted model.

My IPSC .45 Autos have fixed sights because they never fail and hard ball equivalent loads are hard on sights. It is easy there, because I only use one load. So, in that case, high visibility fixed sights make sense. Otherwise, it is adjustable sights for me...

FWIW
Dale53

9.3X62AL

10-27-2007, 02:07 PM

Nueces

10-27-2007, 02:41 PM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Good one!

Mark

45 2.1

10-27-2007, 04:33 PM

JMax

10-27-2007, 06:08 PM

I can learn to use either fixed or adjustable sights on a handgun. What I REALLY wish S&W would STOP doing is gold-inlaying the barrel script on their revolvers. I saw a Mountain Gun at a local shop the other day, and between the barrel bling and the new cylinder latch profile (OOGLIE), I would need an Escalade with 22's and spinners to preserve the design element unities.

Because of the bling I was able to talk my dealer down because everyone thought it looked it belonged to a pimp. I don't look at the side plate but I do try to focus on the sight.:-D

Poohgyrr

10-27-2007, 07:39 PM

:groner:

is what I've always thought of gold on guns... There are a few rifles and pistols I haven't bought just because of the gold triggers or what not. But I haven't been able to find a new nickle M21, and I can't afford an original. So, the local "good buy" will become a good bye to the store, and travel home with me.

There should be a mold for this (longer than the "normal" Special length) cylinder, that will let the boolit extend out further from the brass (filling the longer length cylinder), and leaving more room in the case for powder. Kind of like what Skeeter used to write about loading his M27s. Not trying to make this Special a Magnum, but not wasting what it is capable of either.

Fixed sight wise, the few S&W's I've shot are real accurate for me. I used to have a Speed Six and a Detective Special. Both of them were great wheelguns in their own rights, but they were also harder for me to shoot as accurately as either of two Smith 640-1's. Both of these little J frames do well for me; it always amazes me how accurate these two are.

Every single adjustable sighted S&W revolver I've ever shoot has done very well for me. They all have been clearly easier to shoot more accurately than other brands. Hopefully this M21-4 will be at least as good as the M24-3. It certainly has the potential.

Somehow it just seems appropriate to load this "retro" N frame with cast boolits. Blued, and with good wood grips. It should do fine both in town and out in the woods, which is just what it was made for (ignore the stupid bling). This should become even more sweet in the future.

Unless I have problems with it, and so far none are really being reported.

And Good News is always welcome. I'd still like to hear more about what you guys are seeing with these.

:drinks:

JMax

10-31-2007, 01:01 PM

By the way if we look at the left side only we don't see the gold bling.

9.3X62AL

10-31-2007, 01:14 PM

Good points about ignoring the bling--I do that to the safety buttons on Marlin leverguns. Both abominations still grate on me, though.

JMax

10-31-2007, 04:23 PM

I do really like the way it shoots and take a lot of heat for the gold. I run a retro match at our ICORE club and shoot the Bling. No moon clips and no optics allowed for this one match. Most come out and play but there are a few whiners that can't live w/o moons and glass. We have a great time and it is all topped off with man on man (or lady in some cases) on a dueling tree. Those HKS loaders are tough but they take me back to yesteryear when I was a young Deputy Sheriff and carried a 586 and HKS loaders some 25 years ago.

Dale53

10-31-2007, 04:45 PM

You fellers that are "put off" by gold filled markings on the revolver can cover the markings with Artists acrylic paint. You just put it on (I would use a matte black) and wipe off with your fingers.
It drys quickly and you can use the revolver the same day. It is water resistant and hold up well.

This pre-supposes that the gold filling is below the surface (you have to have some place for the black matte to settle). If you get tired of the look, you can remove the Acylic with mineral spirits with no damage to the revolver.

CAUTION:Since neither you nor I can know what the "gold" is, this could possibly damage the gold, so you are on your own here. I'm a shooter, not a collector, so "I" may be less bothered by that possibility than you would be.

Dale53

Dale53

10-31-2007, 04:51 PM

On another note; This month's issue of "Guns" magazine has a nice write up by Mike Venturino on the Model 22 S&W's (not a 21, but close[smilie=1:). Mike used only jacketed bullets and got rather indifferent accuracy with the Ransom Rest (3-4" groups at 25 yards as I remember).

I seem to remember that a recent article about the originals mentioned that they did not shoot jacketed ammo (hard ball) particularly well. This would seem to back that up. My current 625-8 shoots brilliantly with cast bullet reloads, so I would expect the 21's and 22's to shoot as well with good ammo.

Good fixed sights are not a handicap if you settle on one load and regulate the revolver for that but they are sure a pain if you shoot several different loads.

Dale53

JMax

11-01-2007, 07:35 PM

When I was younger and had more money prior to the kids I could regulate one gun per load-) now I just shoot one load per caliber-)

mastercast.com

11-18-2007, 04:21 PM

My S&W 21-4 is perhaps the most accurate revolver I have in inventory. One inch groups at 25 yards with 240 grain SWC bullets and 7.5 grains of Unique happen frequently enough that I suspect the revolver is capable of doing that all the time....the problem is that I am not. Mine also is regulated for 200-215 grain bullets and shoots high with 240 grain bullets. Why in the world did the factory regulate those revolvers for 200-215 grain bullets instead of the proper 240 grain bullets???? @#*%&!!!!! The sight regulation and that darned gold "sign" on the sideplate are my ONLY complaints with regard to that revolver.

Dale53

11-18-2007, 08:07 PM

I suspect that whoever regulates a specific revolver may just see things differently than "us". That is one of the reasons that I really do not cotton to fixed sighted revolvers. It works just fine when you only intend to shoot one load in a piece. Unfortunately, most of us wish to use more than one load (after all, we are reloaders, doncha know?)

I bought my much used Model 29 (8 3/8" barrel) many years and thousands of shots ago, but when it was new it had a front sight that was much too low for use even with the adjustable sights on it. The solution was a higher front sight. Fortunately, the sight was pinned on and there were different heights available. It was still a pain and should have never left the factory with the wrong front sight (but it did:confused:).

At any rate, it sounds like you have a fine revolver and there are "work arounds".

Dale53

45 2.1

11-19-2007, 07:44 AM

Why in the world did the factory regulate those revolvers for 200-215 grain bullets instead of the proper 240 grain bullets???? @#*%&!!!!!

Winchester 200 gr. Silvertip factory loads in a neat fixed sight revolver. That seems to be a good enough reason, if you want to shoot factory loads.

Dutch4122

11-19-2007, 04:57 PM

Winchester 200 gr. Silvertip factory loads in a neat fixed sight revolver. That seems to be a good enough reason, if you want to shoot factory loads.

.........................Or the .434-210-RF Group Buy boolit we just got in.

I'm tellin' you guys I gotta find me a way to beg, borrow, or steal the $$ for one of these S&W 21-4's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Trouble is, money is the thing standing in my way right now[smilie=b:

Poohgyrr

11-19-2007, 07:54 PM

But I wanna use Catshooter's Keith (whine).. :mrgreen:

If it takes a different front sight, then that is it...

I found my printed out copies of the long thread on this over in the S&W Forum from '04. That is how long it took me to get the money. Three years!! And since this first came out, they have had some other new models in 3" & 4" barrels, blued, nickled, & CCH..... I still want one of the 3" nickled ones, that might take a lonnnggg time though...

targetshootr

11-19-2007, 11:56 PM

I've gotten to like the fixed sight guns like this 38/44 conversion (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b233/targetshootr/IM004662.jpg) to 44 spl. But he made the front blade too low for some reason so it'll have to have a higher one fitted. He did the same dern thing on the 45 Ruger (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b233/targetshootr/DSCN0155.jpg) conversion. But if the new ones are anything like the old ones, it would make a nice general purpose gun. Clint Smith is all about fixed sights on a combat handgun. Apparently he had problems with long term use of the adjustables.

Poohgyrr

11-20-2007, 12:30 AM

targetshootr,

Both of those look nice, congrats!

The Ruger and its' finish would match up well with my M92 .44 Special

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/5015/croppedm92444cb.jpg

MtGun44

11-20-2007, 03:04 AM

Anybody out there have and shoot one of the new 'classic' M22 4"
fixed sight round butt guns? They are identical to the M21-4 of this
thread but the caliber.

I have a gun dealer friend looking for one as we speak. . . . . . . .

Any personal experience info appreciated.

Bill

Dutch4122

11-20-2007, 08:09 AM